Conjugate MMA

Training
61

[quote]rasturai wrote:
alright makes sense. Cause I train with Kelly (online training). Since I’m young and stuff just me gaining strength and practicing punching everyday will give me power. Because if I practice punching everyday, hand pads with trainer etc. and increase my bench from lets say 350 to 405. There’s got to a be a little bit of increase in hitting power to that because the supporting muscles are strong. But I’ll ask Kelly, this is just my assumption because Kelly said if you get stronger and practice punch and kick, you will get more power.[/quote]

Yes it will increase… but honestly improving your squat…actually you’re vertical leap and you’re talking to the right guy (kelly)… imo will improving your striking power more than anything else. Kinetic linking involved in striking is more akin to an explosive jump than anything else. It’s just that it’s 100’s of explosive jumps over a 3-5min period.

[quote]

Xen when you say technique training, you don’t mean like punching slow and whatever…do you just mean like when hitting the bag, hand pads, more focused on having proper body mechanics and such?[/quote]

Both. Polish your technique by drilling. Practice proper form, get it to be as internalized as sneezing.

Then turn it into something else entirely… add ferocity, add power, add explosiveness. Hit the bags with everything like you’re really fighting. Make the techniques flow from you. If you drilled jab, lead upper cut, low right kick, you should have that combination “inside of you” but not just throw that… you should be able to throw that combo, check a kick, quick switch, throw a left kick, straight right, left hook, right kick, teep… and just flow.

when you hit pads, your coach will eventually move you up to ‘see & hit’ where it’s not just drills you’re going through. but you’ll know what signals the pads at certain angles are and he’ll just hold stuff up… if you aren’t fast enough you missed it… you just hit what you see… you have to be in PERFECT stance and position all the time or you’ll miss it…and with a good coach/padholder you’ll flow through techniques seamlessly…

which prepares you for when someone is firing back at you and there are little openings and gaps in their technique for you to take advantage of and when you SEE it you have the reaction time required to HIT it.

62

ahhh i never saw hitting the pads in that way with the reaction time required to HIT it. I do the “see and hit” now though, before I could not do it, but as I practice more and more I can flow through it and such. Thanks for the feedback man, just what I needed!

63

wow this thread is awesome!!

i’ll be fighting at ADCC TRIALS on february, i got to cut 15 pounds until there i hate dieting =(

would you mind giving some input on weight cutting??

everytime i tried to dehydrate i ended up weak like a straw!

64

So there is 3 strength training days witch I like but another 3 days condtioning days not to mention 3-6 days of mma? Is this reccomended or thats just you cause of your high work capacity?

65

It was just for me, the concepts are what I care primarily about. Even so that is a LOT of work, and i’d rarely do that past 3 weeks. I liked overreaching/borderline over training 3weeks then taking one week off (no lifting/conditioning, just fight training) and then see how I feel the next week. It’s a shitty form of periodizing for supercompensation that only really works for me cause i “know” myself.

I think I mentioned somewhere later that my ideas on some stuff have changed. Though not all that much. Primarily- you do NOT need to work this much. You CAN, but only if you know how/why to use it. If you’re doing what you need to in fight training you shouldn’t need to though… If you can only get to fight training 2-3x a week, ok add in other stuff to supplement your training (more bagwork, more conditioning, strength shit, etc)… you should be killing yourself in the fight gym not the weight room.

You can improve leaps and bounds on 2 lifting days (upper, lower) and 1 conditioning day… Depending on your focus, I’d switch that around if you need to work on your conditioning.

Otherwise I’d say if you can be in the fight gym 2x a day before you start adding in more S&C stuff unless you have a really specific weakness.

My mistake was focusing way too much on gym #'s and not necessarily on how you improve in the ring/cage. I probably said that you shouldn’t focus on your PR’s, but I did get caught up in it. How you PERFORM is a better indicator than how much you’re lifting. You have to factor in fatigue from practice, and a myriad of other things. There are SOME indicators but for the most part the best one is “Are you seeing an improvement when it comes time to fight”.

66

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:

You can improve leaps and bounds on 2 lifting days (upper, lower) and 1 conditioning day… Depending on your focus, I’d switch that around if you need to work on your conditioning.

How you PERFORM is a better indicator than how much you’re lifting. You have to factor in fatigue from practice, and a myriad of other things. There are SOME indicators but for the most part the best one is “Are you seeing an improvement when it comes time to fight”.

[/quote]

solid gold right there.

I get caught up all the time in stuff that does not matter to performance-
sometimes is a hard pill to swallow

67

props on this man. I really help clear many ideas and shit I had in my head. You state to get up your work capacity first when you first start out. I am a newbie(not to weight training) but to MMA.

Right now I am doing football and in 3 weeks it will be over. After those three weeks and another 2 to rest my mind and any shit. I will get my 3 days a week training of WSFSB to 4 times after 2 weeks but I thinking a month after football is over do MMA. I would like to start with3 days a week fight training.

How should I drop down training?I was thinking of 2 days and since im a newbe I can not really know any weaknesses so get strong and get condtioning up cause it sucks. How should my weight training be?

68

From what you told me, I think for yourself you need to adjust your strategy a bit.

More than likely you’re plenty strong. You actually don’t need to be THAT strong for MMA unless you need the strength to makeup for some skill deficit. Again, you’re plenty strong already probably (football players generally are).

What you need to do is work on your conditioning: Jumping rope, bag work, tabata rounds on a rower or versaclimber, barbell/dumbbell complexes

^that’s the kind of shit you should put some time into 2-3x a week. You don’t need more than 15-25min of that. 3-5 rounds basically. Build up to something like

Sunday–
3 rounds of bagwork
Bagwork (5min)
Jumprope (30s)
Rest (30s)
Bagwork (5min)
repeat.
Tabata Rower 2 rounds

Friday–
3 Rounds Barbell/DBell Complexes
2 Rounds Bagwork

And 3 days a week fight training is cool, but you should get in the MMA gym as often as you can if you want your skill to improve. Keep in mind that kind of training is more than likely going to make you lose some weight. If you keep your protein up it should be mostly fat loss. If you plan on doing football still then I’d figure out something a little better so you keep your strength up. But I’d still do 2-3 weeks of JUST conditioning then restart your strength training… 1-2 strength moves THEN do your conditioning

Sunday-
Deadlift (531)
Bulgarian Squat
Tabata Rower
Bagwork

Thursday-
Bench Press (531)
Rows
Bagwork with dbell swings between rounds

(PS, I’ve shy’d away from ME lifting a bit because it’s easier to stay fresher with submaximal weights, I learned this after I did a couple sheiko programs improved my lifts (quite a bit) and was still fresh even though I was lifting twice a day 3-4x a week… If you did ME with this^ style though I’d do one week set a ‘max’, next week beat that max then change the ME lift, beat that max after 2 weeks and rotate again… 531 setup is diff though, I’d go through a complete 4 week cycle then rotate.)

My biggest mistake with this thread is that you need a lot less work than you think, even if you have a big work capacity. I have a huge work capacity but I’m STILL better off just spending more time in the MMA gym than I am in the weight room. Only reason to hit the weight room more often is because you CAN"T get in more fight training (work, school, life, etc). What’s going to improve my jiujitsu more? sandbag lifts or actually rolling? Common sense says start rolling more.

69

[quote]kaisermetal22 wrote:
wow this thread is awesome!!

i’ll be fighting at ADCC TRIALS on february, i got to cut 15 pounds until there i hate dieting =(

would you mind giving some input on weight cutting??

everytime i tried to dehydrate i ended up weak like a straw![/quote]

Sorry I didn’t comment on this before, I don’t really know much about weight cutting I’ve never really cut more than 10-12lbs of water weight which is basically just take a shit, piss, don’t eat/drink and chill in a sauna after rubbing some thai liniment on for 30-45min. there’s guys that can cut huge % of their bodyweight day before weigh in’s but I’ve never really tried THAT much. (Except for this one time but I do NOT recommend it, only reason i could even fight was I was hopped up on like 6 redbulls and I thought a vessel in brain was going to burst)

70

Xen, great thread. Do you have an excel file/thread or anything with your program/logs?
I’d be interested in viewing it and using it to compare with my schedule.

71

shitload of notebooks nothing on computer though, sorry :-/ ill post a few though if I remember to

72

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
From what you told me, I think for yourself you need to adjust your strategy a bit.

More than likely you’re plenty strong. You actually don’t need to be THAT strong for MMA unless you need the strength to makeup for some skill deficit. Again, you’re plenty strong already probably (football players generally are).

What you need to do is work on your conditioning: Jumping rope, bag work, tabata rounds on a rower or versaclimber, barbell/dumbbell complexes

^that’s the kind of shit you should put some time into 2-3x a week. You don’t need more than 15-25min of that. 3-5 rounds basically. Build up to something like

Sunday–
3 rounds of bagwork
Bagwork (5min)
Jumprope (30s)
Rest (30s)
Bagwork (5min)
repeat.
Tabata Rower 2 rounds

Friday–
3 Rounds Barbell/DBell Complexes
2 Rounds Bagwork

And 3 days a week fight training is cool, but you should get in the MMA gym as often as you can if you want your skill to improve. Keep in mind that kind of training is more than likely going to make you lose some weight. If you keep your protein up it should be mostly fat loss. If you plan on doing football still then I’d figure out something a little better so you keep your strength up. But I’d still do 2-3 weeks of JUST conditioning then restart your strength training… 1-2 strength moves THEN do your conditioning

Sunday-
Deadlift (531)
Bulgarian Squat
Tabata Rower
Bagwork

Thursday-
Bench Press (531)
Rows
Bagwork with dbell swings between rounds

(PS, I’ve shy’d away from ME lifting a bit because it’s easier to stay fresher with submaximal weights, I learned this after I did a couple sheiko programs improved my lifts (quite a bit) and was still fresh even though I was lifting twice a day 3-4x a week… If you did ME with this^ style though I’d do one week set a ‘max’, next week beat that max then change the ME lift, beat that max after 2 weeks and rotate again… 531 setup is diff though, I’d go through a complete 4 week cycle then rotate.)

My biggest mistake with this thread is that you need a lot less work than you think, even if you have a big work capacity. I have a huge work capacity but I’m STILL better off just spending more time in the MMA gym than I am in the weight room. Only reason to hit the weight room more often is because you CAN"T get in more fight training (work, school, life, etc). What’s going to improve my jiujitsu more? sandbag lifts or actually rolling? Common sense says start rolling more. [/quote]

…Im speechless…Just speechless… really thanks a ton this help so much and explained my question even though it was not formated too good you still understand it and anwered every question. I am not thinking of doing mma and football at the same time.

After 3 weeks football is over and then join mma. I just a teenager so I can’t put in that much gym(fight gym) training cause of the cost but I will take your word and do as much fight gym as possible also im thinking of joing highschool wresling on top of all of that cause its free.

73

Depends how serious you are with both, while you’re off of football I’d get as much MMA as I can, or at times when you would be at fight practice I’d do drills, hit the bag, practice your shot, etc etc.

If you’re more serious about football (and mma is just for fun, fitness, etc) then take more time to lift and get some short (10-20yrd) sprints in. Get strong as fuck while you aren’t in season.

If you’re serious about MMA DEFINITELY work towards joining the wrestling team. Invaluable experience. If you follow any of my advice… JOIN THE WRESTLING TEAM ASAP… regardless of your priorities (MMA or football), wrestling will help you with both, if not for the conditioning then just for the mindset alone.

Best advice I’ve been told (dozens of times before it stuck) is that you can’t spread yourself thin. Pick one thing and do it to the max. So you can do MMA as a fun distraction but be sure that you’re prioritizing football or vice versa. But pick one and commit FULLY to it and very little can stop you.

74

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Depends how serious you are with both, while you’re off of football I’d get as much MMA as I can, or at times when you would be at fight practice I’d do drills, hit the bag, practice your shot, etc etc.

If you’re more serious about football (and mma is just for fun, fitness, etc) then take more time to lift and get some short (10-20yrd) sprints in. Get strong as fuck while you aren’t in season.

If you’re serious about MMA DEFINITELY work towards joining the wrestling team. Invaluable experience. If you follow any of my advice… JOIN THE WRESTLING TEAM ASAP… regardless of your priorities (MMA or football), wrestling will help you with both, if not for the conditioning then just for the mindset alone.

Best advice I’ve been told (dozens of times before it stuck) is that you can’t spread yourself thin. Pick one thing and do it to the max. So you can do MMA as a fun distraction but be sure that you’re prioritizing football or vice versa. But pick one and commit FULLY to it and very little can stop you.[/quote]

I rather pick MMA and yes I will join wresling.

75

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
From what you told me, I think for yourself you need to adjust your strategy a bit.

More than likely you’re plenty strong. You actually don’t need to be THAT strong for MMA unless you need the strength to makeup for some skill deficit. Again, you’re plenty strong already probably (football players generally are).

What you need to do is work on your conditioning: Jumping rope, bag work, tabata rounds on a rower or versaclimber, barbell/dumbbell complexes

^that’s the kind of shit you should put some time into 2-3x a week. You don’t need more than 15-25min of that. 3-5 rounds basically. Build up to something like

Sunday–
3 rounds of bagwork
Bagwork (5min)
Jumprope (30s)
Rest (30s)
Bagwork (5min)
repeat.
Tabata Rower 2 rounds

Friday–
3 Rounds Barbell/DBell Complexes
2 Rounds Bagwork

And 3 days a week fight training is cool, but you should get in the MMA gym as often as you can if you want your skill to improve. Keep in mind that kind of training is more than likely going to make you lose some weight. If you keep your protein up it should be mostly fat loss. If you plan on doing football still then I’d figure out something a little better so you keep your strength up. But I’d still do 2-3 weeks of JUST conditioning then restart your strength training… 1-2 strength moves THEN do your conditioning

Sunday-
Deadlift (531)
Bulgarian Squat
Tabata Rower
Bagwork

Thursday-
Bench Press (531)
Rows
Bagwork with dbell swings between rounds

(PS, I’ve shy’d away from ME lifting a bit because it’s easier to stay fresher with submaximal weights, I learned this after I did a couple sheiko programs improved my lifts (quite a bit) and was still fresh even though I was lifting twice a day 3-4x a week… If you did ME with this^ style though I’d do one week set a ‘max’, next week beat that max then change the ME lift, beat that max after 2 weeks and rotate again… 531 setup is diff though, I’d go through a complete 4 week cycle then rotate.)

My biggest mistake with this thread is that you need a lot less work than you think, even if you have a big work capacity. I have a huge work capacity but I’m STILL better off just spending more time in the MMA gym than I am in the weight room. Only reason to hit the weight room more often is because you CAN"T get in more fight training (work, school, life, etc). What’s going to improve my jiujitsu more? sandbag lifts or actually rolling? Common sense says start rolling more. [/quote]

When you say “But I’d still do 2-3 weeks of JUST conditioning then restart your strength training” do you mean do not do any strength training like bench, squats, etc for 2-3 weeks at all then after those weeks combine condtioning and strength?

76

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Hey Xen from this passage "my own example…despite the fact at the time i could bench 455 at 215…my punches were a little slow and lacked power at my size…now should i spend more time benching cause punching happens in a similar pattern…no …due to the fact that punching power has been proven to be derived from the ground through the posterior chain and kinetic linkage and blah blah…

I only improved when i built up my explosiveness through my backside via speed pulls because although i could deadlift 3+ times my bodyweight…i was strong but slow…so DE work and jumping drills took my striking to a whole other level along with sparring and drilling my ASS off…

Now with this…you said you benched 455 at 215 but your punches were a little slow and lacked power for your size. Were you practicing punching a lot when you could do that? Even for deadlifts 3x BW.

If your doing the sport and lots of movement, getting stronger will only help and I don’t think you could get slower.

Kelly Bagget told me that if your getting stronger, and practice your sport…punches and kicks…your power will improve still.
So I’m wondering cause that’s awesome relative strength you had in the bench 455 at 215, if you kept practicing punching everyday, bag work, hand pads, etc. I just can’t see how the punch could be slow and lack power. Just confused with that, if you could clear it up. Thanks!

[/quote]

I was transitioning from lifting heavy all the time to training standup twice weekly…doing slow grinding powerlifting does VERY little to your striking game unless you have poor relative strength…increasing your absolute strength does have carryover into into your alactic power production if you play the percentage game ex: see strength chart online plug in your numbers…but real world evidence there is a point of diminished returns to chasing your totals all the time…you also gain alot of residual muscle tension and your risk of injury increases (Try rehabbing a pec tear then learning to punch again…lol)…gain strength where you need it WHEN you need it…Fight training is about backing up your techniques with the motor qualities you LACK…if anything heavy training is good for hormone production…but in the context of anybody involved in the combat sports even for recreation…try keeping up a crazy lifting schedule while training seriously which i define as your skill training is the foundation(80% of your training) which you plug the other variables into like recovery,strength training,Cardio etc…CaliforniaLaw has always had it right when he laughed at guys trying to build these insane SC programs while completely neglecting their skill training…Train heavy and hard especially if you lack size or strength…but learn to autoregulate your strength training because MMA training is just really demanding on your CNS and joints…you’d be amazed at the low volume of lifting some Pros do.

77

[quote]motherofpearl wrote:

When you say “But I’d still do 2-3 weeks of JUST conditioning then restart your strength training” do you mean do not do any strength training like bench, squats, etc for 2-3 weeks at all then after those weeks combine condtioning and strength?[/quote]

Yup that’s what i mean

78

[quote]ChenZen wrote:

I was transitioning from lifting heavy all the time to training standup twice weekly…doing slow grinding powerlifting does VERY little to your striking game unless you have poor relative strength…increasing your absolute strength does have carryover into into your alactic power production if you play the percentage game ex: see strength chart online plug in your numbers…but real world evidence there is a point of diminished returns to chasing your totals all the time…you also gain alot of residual muscle tension and your risk of injury increases (Try rehabbing a pec tear then learning to punch again…lol)…gain strength where you need it WHEN you need it…Fight training is about backing up your techniques with the motor qualities you LACK…if anything heavy training is good for hormone production…but in the context of anybody involved in the combat sports even for recreation…try keeping up a crazy lifting schedule while training seriously which i define as your skill training is the foundation(80% of your training) which you plug the other variables into like recovery,strength training,Cardio etc…CaliforniaLaw has always had it right when he laughed at guys trying to build these insane SC programs while completely neglecting their skill training…Train heavy and hard especially if you lack size or strength…but learn to autoregulate your strength training because MMA training is just really demanding on your CNS and joints…you’d be amazed at the low volume of lifting some Pros do.[/quote]

GODDAMN this is a good answer.

read this 3x

79

[quote]ChenZen wrote:
rasturai wrote:
Hey Xen from this passage "my own example…despite the fact at the time i could bench 455 at 215…my punches were a little slow and lacked power at my size…now should i spend more time benching cause punching happens in a similar pattern…no …due to the fact that punching power has been proven to be derived from the ground through the posterior chain and kinetic linkage and blah blah…

I only improved when i built up my explosiveness through my backside via speed pulls because although i could deadlift 3+ times my bodyweight…i was strong but slow…so DE work and jumping drills took my striking to a whole other level along with sparring and drilling my ASS off…

Now with this…you said you benched 455 at 215 but your punches were a little slow and lacked power for your size. Were you practicing punching a lot when you could do that? Even for deadlifts 3x BW.

If your doing the sport and lots of movement, getting stronger will only help and I don’t think you could get slower.

Kelly Bagget told me that if your getting stronger, and practice your sport…punches and kicks…your power will improve still.
So I’m wondering cause that’s awesome relative strength you had in the bench 455 at 215, if you kept practicing punching everyday, bag work, hand pads, etc. I just can’t see how the punch could be slow and lack power. Just confused with that, if you could clear it up. Thanks!

I was transitioning from lifting heavy all the time to training standup twice weekly…doing slow grinding powerlifting does VERY little to your striking game unless you have poor relative strength…increasing your absolute strength does have carryover into into your alactic power production if you play the percentage game ex: see strength chart online plug in your numbers…but real world evidence there is a point of diminished returns to chasing your totals all the time…you also gain alot of residual muscle tension and your risk of injury increases (Try rehabbing a pec tear then learning to punch again…lol)…gain strength where you need it WHEN you need it…Fight training is about backing up your techniques with the motor qualities you LACK…if anything heavy training is good for hormone production…but in the context of anybody involved in the combat sports even for recreation…try keeping up a crazy lifting schedule while training seriously which i define as your skill training is the foundation(80% of your training) which you plug the other variables into like recovery,strength training,Cardio etc…CaliforniaLaw has always had it right when he laughed at guys trying to build these insane SC programs while completely neglecting their skill training…Train heavy and hard especially if you lack size or strength…but learn to autoregulate your strength training because MMA training is just really demanding on your CNS and joints…you’d be amazed at the low volume of lifting some Pros do.[/quote]

Yes, sir. Glad people are starting to see the light on this.

80

ChenZen thank you for that fantastic post.
kmc