Xen: I imagine your views have changed because you’ve gotten strong. Once I got “strong enough” I suddenly became an almost anti-weights guy. I still do some “heavy” stuff once a week, but the other days are pretty easy. And I don’t think I do less than 5 reps on any movement.
It just doesn’t make sense chasing a higher max once you’ve gotten a baseline of strength - especially when you have to balance skills training, and just plain avoiding injuries.
Here is what I think the baseline level of strength is: You should be able to slam your way out of the triangle of someone in your weight class; and be able to lift someone up/slam out of an arm bar.
You should also be able to sit your way up when a guy has a low mount. (Now, technically you won’t always be able to do this all the time, since the guy can counter. But you should have the raw strength to do the “sit-up”.)
More strength would be great. But you can’t keep chasing higher weights because that will just cause other skills to suffer.
Xen, what’s your take on conventional and sumo deadlifts?
After 6 months i’m still stuck at 225 pounds for the deadlift (infuckingcredible) but my back squat has gone from 185 to 285.
So i was thinking sumo deadlift would be a better idea.
Depends on your weaknesses and what you’re attempting to improve. also how do you back squat.
if you back squat widestance pl/box squat style then i’d say sumo because it works similar mechanically.
at the same time you’ll need to stretch your hips a lot & do some prehab stuff cause they will take a BEATING… and they already do in kyokushin & wrestling… Depends what you’d rather work a lot, hips or lower back.
but there’s a LOT of reasons your conventional DL could not be increasing as rapidly. from form issues, to a strength deficit, to glute/ham muscle amnesia, weak abs/lower back, or just poor leverages, etc… for me it’s small hands & poor grip.
So it’s hard to just recommend one thing.
Plus how are you training your DL…? if you’re DL’ing every week from the floor that shit gets old quick. Biggest thing that helped my DL are rack pulls, front squats, good mornings, and pulls from an elevated surface. (in that order).
so basically… i need to know a lot more… respond here or PM me (whatever u want) I’ll help out.
I have short legs (27inch inseam)but with average torso and arm length.
My squat stance is slightly outside of shoulder width.
The bar at the gym looks like this.
I position my feet and hands according to where the rough and smooth parts end and begin.
I usually train my DL from the floor like you said.
I’ve started front squatting.
Should i just do good mornings, sumo deadlifts and front squats and just drop conventional deadlifts? I want a very strong and powerful back. What would be the difference between good morning and Conventional deadlift?
Don’t they both focus on hamstring/lower back?
I’m just looking to become stronger over all.
My lifts are not impressive:
power clean is 135 for 5 reps
front squat is about 205 for 5 reps
Yea, no problem.
I found a pic of a barbell on google, drew that stick figure guy over it (that’s me), and i just used imageshack to upload it.
That’s totally copyright but ill let you have it
I just wanted to know your thoughts on sumo deadlifts though.
For a striker and/or a wrestler, would it be more beneficial?
Sumo DL’s really beat up your hips ESPECIALLY if you have a little gluteal amnesia or you’re not REALLY contracting them at the top of the movement. You’re already taking a big beating on your hips in combat training.
If you CAN do it no reason not to cycle it in every now and then but I wouldn’t blast away at it like it’s the only way for you to DL. From personal experience you need to stretch and roll (tennis ball) your hips a lot to keep up sumo dl’ing and box squatting if you train with any decent frequency.
To answer your other questions… Yes the good morning’s train the same muscles as the deadlift, thats the point. To train the same muscles but in a different stimulus to keep yourself from cns fatigue.
I REALLY like a 2-3 week block system. It just works well for me when doing singles…
Work up to a max deadlift on week one… do 3 more singles within the range of Complete the rest of the week’s workouts. Next week BEAT THE WEIGHT FROM LAST WEEK. You can do this again or move on to the next exercise.
Don’t DROP conventional deadlifts… use the other special exercises to mimic your conventional dead and bring up muscles responsible for your strength in that exercise w/o adaptation. Then when you test your DL again (aside from the strength deficit being a technique issue) it’ll be higher. A lot higher.
Hey Xen from this passage "my own example…despite the fact at the time i could bench 455 at 215…my punches were a little slow and lacked power at my size…now should i spend more time benching cause punching happens in a similar pattern…no …due to the fact that punching power has been proven to be derived from the ground through the posterior chain and kinetic linkage and blah blah…
I only improved when i built up my explosiveness through my backside via speed pulls because although i could deadlift 3+ times my bodyweight…i was strong but slow…so DE work and jumping drills took my striking to a whole other level along with sparring and drilling my ASS off…
Now with this…you said you benched 455 at 215 but your punches were a little slow and lacked power for your size. Were you practicing punching a lot when you could do that? Even for deadlifts 3x BW.
If your doing the sport and lots of movement, getting stronger will only help and I don’t think you could get slower.
Kelly Bagget told me that if your getting stronger, and practice your sport…punches and kicks…your power will improve still.
So I’m wondering cause that’s awesome relative strength you had in the bench 455 at 215, if you kept practicing punching everyday, bag work, hand pads, etc. I just can’t see how the punch could be slow and lack power. Just confused with that, if you could clear it up. Thanks!
Also I train Muay Thai. I have class 3x a week muay thai.
I lift 3x a week, so
Tues. thurs. Sat. - muay thai
Mon, wed, fri - weight
Now I get some conditioning work from muay thai class (obviosuly) and work technique, set drills etc.
But on Mon Wed. Fri. should I also be working on my technique. I practice kicking and punching on the bag, might do 100 straight kicks left and right leg. and combinations with hands etc. on Mon. Wed. Fri. AFTER the lifting session for around 20min. I’ll do it. Am I better served doing this then going out for a jog or something?
For technique and such skill should I be practicing it everyday punching and kicking…cause I hit the bag hard each time, but make sure I’m executing the technique right.
Just kinda confused how much to spend practicing punching and kicking? Cause kicking and punching the bag, is completely different than punching and kicking in REAL life in the ring. So is it completely worth it to kick and punch the bag 3x a week like that after weights? Thanks!
That was probably chenzen not me I’ve never been 215… tried to crack 200 just not in my genetic limit if i want to have abs.
Kelley Baggett is right. I’d never contradict him. But imo CZ was mentioning that he ended up splitting his time between training to bench, and training to fight. So lets say 50 fight/50 bench instead of what it should be something like 80 fight/ 20bench… which in turn caused him to lose technique and ‘power’. Also Kelley would be first to tell you that absolute strength does have a point of diminishing returns where you’re strong but you can be relatively ‘slow’. Your muscles aren’t (forgive my stupifying whatever the intelligent/proper term for this is) snapping off the way they would be if you were training with explosive motions.
it’s like having a lot of one side of the force equation
f=ma
you’re using a lot of mass but little acceleration.
quick run down
probably wasn’t punching everyday
not committed to technique training
over compensating for lack of technique by using upper body to punch
punching power now comes from upper body
loss of proper technique means weaker punch
bench pressing has little to NOTHING to do with punching power
alright makes sense. Cause I train with Kelly (online training). Since I’m young and stuff just me gaining strength and practicing punching everyday will give me power. Because if I practice punching everyday, hand pads with trainer etc. and increase my bench from lets say 350 to 405. There’s got to a be a little bit of increase in hitting power to that because the supporting muscles are strong. But I’ll ask Kelly, this is just my assumption because Kelly said if you get stronger and practice punch and kick, you will get more power.
Xen when you say technique training, you don’t mean like punching slow and whatever…do you just mean like when hitting the bag, hand pads, more focused on having proper body mechanics and such?
For technique and such skill should I be practicing it everyday
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Yes.
[quote]Just kinda confused how much to spend practicing punching and kicking?
[/quote]
As much time as humanly possible.
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Cause kicking and punching the bag, is completely different than punching and kicking in REAL life in the ring. So is it completely worth it to kick and punch the bag 3x a week like that after weights?[/quote]
You know that phrase, your mind is your greatest weapon? It’s very serious. YOU make the bag work and shadowboxing real. The ability to perceive an opponent, respond to attacks and bring intensity to bagwork IS IN YOUR MIND.
I see people all the time go through shadowboxing like it’s a warmup. Or hit the bag in a 1-2-kick type fashion. thats DRILLING. Which is good. It’s good to polish your technique specifically.
But there is a time when you need to shift your mindstate to the point of a moving meditation. Where you SEE an opponent. He IS attacking you… you ARE defending, countering, and intercepting.
That should be the state of your bagwork and your shadowboxing… A continuous flow of technique, motion, footwork, and ferocity should stem from you.
IT IS NOT EASY and it can’t be faked. Again, it will NOT come easy. You’ll “know” what it is when you kind of zone out there. It took a LOT of shadowboxing to get to that point. I had to shadowbox till I got BORED (like 45min) before I really zoned out and started seeing things.
Make that shit ALIVE. It shouldn’t just be some boring rote going through the motions thing. You should be able to teach yourself to flip that switch and get into combat mode.
