I only have the time to do one major back exercise in my current workout routine.
Why? Because I’m doing a 20 rep squat program from John McCallum 3x a week. There’s not much room for specialization, as it’s pretty intense already. (The basic program is: 3x12 OHP, 1x20 squats, 1x20 pullovers, 3x12 guillotine press, 3x15 bent rows, 1x15 stiff-leg deadlift, 1x20 pullovers. And I’m doing some bi/tri stuff after this if I’m still alive.)
Now that’s out of the way… I’ve been doing some variant of bent over rows up until now. I started with Pendlay Rows, then tried “standard” bent rows without letting the bar touch the ground. I’m rowing with an overhand, shoulder-width grip, elbows back, to the waist. Recently, I noticed myself moving further and further from parallel.
But now I’m getting confused.
Should I be using narrow? wide? medium grip? Should I be parallel to the ground? 45-degrees? Should I keep my elbows out? back? Hell, I’m even questioning whether to use an overhand or underhand grip.
My primary goal is to hit my upper back, both in width and thickness. My secondary goal is to properly balance out the guillotine presses I’m doing, which hit the upper pecs really hard.
was the guillotine press actually prescribed in that routine or did you switch to it from regular bench? I did a variation of 20 rep squat routine and it was geared towards getting your gains moving regardless of little symmetrical flaws.
No, the original was regular bench. I started with a floor press since I had no rack, then I got one a few weeks ago. I’ve taken up an interest in Vince Gironda’s ideas for the moment (probably just a passing fad), and he preferred the guillotine press to the regular bench. I did a bit of research on it and found Bret Contreras’ article where he measured pec activation in various bench press variations.
After that confirmation, I figured it was an acceptable substitution. (I also substituted OHP with a 6sec hold at the top instead of the behind-the-neck press. I still wanted to target the medial delts primarily, but didn’t want the risk of shoulder injuries.)
With the bent rows, I’m having trouble getting the bar completely up on the later reps; they become partial reps. I know almost nothing about rows.
Obviously, doing any variant is fine at this point. I was just wondering if any of them were preferable for targeting a bit higher on the back and sides.
If you’re having trouble getting the reps on the bent rows, lower the weight. However, if you want to hit more of the upper back, as opposed to the lats, and use more weight, keep your body at a 45 degree angle ala Yates.
[quote]vali wrote:
If you’re having trouble getting the reps on the bent rows, lower the weight. However, if you want to hit more of the upper back, as opposed to the lats, and use more weight, keep your body at a 45 degree angle ala Yates.[/quote]
From what I’ve read (very quick research), the Yates row is done at around a 45 degree angle, underhand, elbows back, and pulled to the waist. The claims I’ve seen are that this actually hits the lower lats more than other approaches. Not that I’d complain about that; I’m just not sure it’s a great complement to guillotine presses.
I might be being too anal about this. It just seems to get really complicated/confusing when looking at how much of a difference all those options make.
Another few criteria: I want to minimize upper trap development, and hit the teres major/minor if possible.
(In the meanwhile, I’m going to keep doing what I’ve been doing. Not really analysis paralysis. I’m just seeing if there’s a better option.)
[quote]bignate wrote:
Bent rows with a wide grip, closer to 90 degrees, pulling to the sternum or chest instead of the belly button will hit your upper and mid back. [/quote]
Thanks man. I’m assuming these are with elbows out to the side rather than trying to pull them back.
[quote]bignate wrote:
Bent rows with a wide grip, closer to 90 degrees, pulling to the sternum or chest instead of the belly button will hit your upper and mid back. [/quote]
Thanks man. I’m assuming these are with elbows out to the side rather than trying to pull them back.[/quote]
well when you pull that high your elbows will natrally go where they go…but yes they kinda go out to the side but nothing super extreme. Well you could go all the way out to the side and row higher and just hit the back of the delt and mid traps?
[quote]bignate wrote:
Bent rows with a wide grip, closer to 90 degrees, pulling to the sternum or chest instead of the belly button will hit your upper and mid back. [/quote]
Thanks man. I’m assuming these are with elbows out to the side rather than trying to pull them back.[/quote]
well when you pull that high your elbows will natrally go where they go…but yes they kinda go out to the side but nothing super extreme. Well you could go all the way out to the side and row higher and just hit the back of the delt and mid traps?[/quote]
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why? Because I’m doing a 20 rep squat program from John McCallum 3x a week.
…
Should I be using narrow? wide? medium grip? Should I be parallel to the ground? 45-degrees? Should I keep my elbows out? back? Hell, I’m even questioning whether to use an overhand or underhand grip.[/quote]
As an aside, when I ran one of McCallum’s programs last year, I did the barbell rows with a very close grip and pulled low/to my waist like he talked about.
My hands were maybe 4-6" apart (thumbs touching if you stuck them out and made an “L” shape with both hands). It didn’t bother my wrists at all, though I expected it to, and the extra ROM and full stretch let me feel it 100% in the lats and practically nowhere else.
You know there’s no “best.” Stick with one style/technique for a few weeks, pay attention to what you feel and see happening, then adjust something for another few weeks.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
As an aside, when I ran one of McCallum’s programs last year, I did the barbell rows with a very close grip and pulled low/to my waist like he talked about.
My hands were maybe 4-6" apart (thumbs touching if you stuck them out and made an “L” shape with both hands). It didn’t bother my wrists at all, though I expected it to, and the extra ROM and full stretch let me feel it 100% in the lats and practically nowhere else.[/quote]
Yeah, that’s what I get for not going to source material. All I had was the core of the program: the exercises and the progression schedule. The way you describe that sounds pretty appealing.
You know there’s no “best.” Stick with one style/technique for a few weeks, pay attention to what you feel and see happening, then adjust something for another few weeks.
[/quote]
Stick with one style/technique for a few weeks, pay attention to what you feel and see happening, then adjust something for another few weeks.