If we’re all going to get pedantic about things like “toward” vs. “towards” or “try and do” vs. “try to do” then I’ve got to call out Vroom for his use of “impactful” over in the “From Xen to the Trolls” thread.
The use of “impact” to mean “have an effect on” is very recent jargon that grates on my ear.
Ah, English, she is a very supple language indeed… 
The way she twists and bends, her flexibility is unparalleled. It makes for a lot of very interesting positions indeed.
Once she is in those vulnerable contorted positions I like to make my impact… and she squeals and groans in mock protest as I have my way with her.
Oops, sorry, got carried away.
–
Edit: I think I’d used impactful over there as a collision of differing ideas, not with respect to eliciting a change. As such a collision, the word would at least give the same implication, though the items impacting may not be physical. Of course, collisions generally do have an effect, even if only a loud noise… so make of all this as you will.
[quote]vroom wrote:
So, let me axe you a question then… because I think the inability to pronounce the “ask” is crap.
If someone who can’t say “ask” robs a bank, do they wear a max?[/quote]
I don’t know much about the specifics of this one, but it may possible to be be incapable of saying one and not the other. That “M” changes the rest of the phonemes slightly, and maybe it makes all the difference
The one that makes me fly into a rage is the difference between ‘less’ and ‘fewer.’ ‘Less’ refers to an amount, while ‘fewer’ refers to a number.
Incorrect – I did less sets of bench today.
Correct – I did fewer sets of bench today.
Incorrect – There are less people in Chicago than in New York.
Correct – There are fewer people in Chicago than New York.
Please, people, for the love of God, let’s all work on this!
[quote]RankHypocrisy wrote:
The one that makes me fly into a rage is the difference between ‘less’ and ‘fewer.’ ‘Less’ refers to an amount, while ‘fewer’ refers to a number.
Incorrect – I did less sets of bench today.
Correct – I did fewer sets of bench today.
Incorrect – There are less people in Chicago than in New York.
Correct – There are fewer people in Chicago than New York.
Please, people, for the love of God, let’s all work on this![/quote]
I think there are less people working on this than on “ask”, which, I’m sure, is certainly fewer than you would like.
DB
[quote]flynniec6 wrote:
dollarbill44,
I’m repeating what I was told to add to the discussion. I pronounce it correctly. Personally, I think it’s horseshit - just about anybody determined to learn to speak correctly can.
In language profiency, other accents are allowed but artifacts - those things that hang over from another language and prevent clear speech - are a detriment to level.
For example, if you look at the Cambridge tests for languages, the profiency level is the ability to talk to an educated native. They state that there are certain things a native will understand without effort, and certain things that will trip up their mind, i.e. cause them to re-process what they heard to be sure they heard it correctly. While this happens all of us at times, in general profiecient speaking is the ability to communicate clearly and lucidly smoothly.
As always in things human, there are no hard and fast lines. However, I have found that Spanish people, for instance, do not generally differentiate enough between “ass” and “ash” or “ship” and “sheep” when pronouncing. You have to concentrate and analyse the context to be sure you’ve picked it up correctly. That to me is not proficient.
However, Americans regularly hear “mice” when I say “might” until they get used to my accent. I would consider myself proficient. We could argue about proficiency to that degree until the cows come home.
Anyway, I personally view the “ax” thing as not proficient English. If it were me, I’d work at pronoucing it properly.[/quote]
Not to keep harping on this subject, but I was referring to native speakers of English, whose families have been in the U.S. longer than mine, in many instances, and whose parents can say the word correctly. The point you make about how a native speaker of one language has trouble making sounds of a different language is very valid, yet is a totally different situation. I think axe vs. ask is a fundamental erosion of the pronunciation more than anything else because no one corrected them growing up.
DB
Going back to the ask, axe thing. I live in the south and work in a very large manufacturing plant, so there is a lot of black people here. No I’m not racist so don’t go there. You will not find a very large percentage of black people who don’t say axe. For example, “Axe’m if he has change for a dollar”. I worked with an old timer who was a good friend and asked him one time why it was said like this. He didn’t really have an answer. He did agree that it is a black thing. He, by the way, was an exception. But he also didn’t talk like half the red necks down here do either, like ya’ll and ya reckon? or fixin to. He chose to, and educated himself to, speak as an educated person, as I have.
If I travel to the Northern states and talk like a red neck, most people would assume I was a stupid hillbilly, which I am not. It’s all relative. Put a person from Northern Minnesota next to a person from Southern Louisiana and listen to them talk. Yanna git sum t’eat. OH! YA! I’m hungry as a grizzly bear ya know! They could both have college degrees but think the other was a dumbass just because of the way he talked. Besides, if we all talked the same this would be a pretty boring world, and YA’LL! wouldn’t have anything to bitch about.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
the natural. Metaphysics are “after” physics (nature).[/quote]
Meta is not so much “after” as “beyond”. I think “transcending” or possibly even “encompassing” would be more lucid explanations (to the extent that any 12 letter word can be considered lucid).
[quote]vroom wrote:
If someone who can’t say “ask” robs a bank, do they wear a max?[/quote]
Prolly. But fo sho if the get-away driver gots a excalade.
Can’t believe no one mentioned this, or maybe it doesn’t bother others as much as it does me, but i absolutely can’t fucking stand when people say “we or I gave 110%.”
When did 100% become less than the maximum you could give. I mean if we are talking about lifting, then i could see 110% of you 1 RM. But when you are dealing with effort, the absolute max you can give is 100%.
I have even seen people go beyond 110% and say 150 or even 200% and i want to kill myself. WTF? I am just waiting for some athlete to same he (or she) gave 100% and have the interviewer say “oh really only 100 not 110? wow, you must not care that much, huh?”
Please don’t tell me I am the only one that this pisses off. Most people i mention this to seem to shrug it off.
“Now then,” as in “Now then, we shall begin our session with 50 reps per side with 30 pounds on the leg extension machine. We are focusing on toning, not mass building. That will be $175.”
Now then, let’s get back to the thread.
I’m from the south and I hear this all the the time. When someone askes how many times something has happened, they will reply- a couple three times. Translation: two or three times. Maybe some others from the south can back me up. Or maybe it’s just NC.
[quote]dukefan4ever wrote:
I’m from the south and I hear this all the the time. When someone askes how many times something has happened, they will reply- a couple three times. Translation: two or three times. Maybe some others from the south can back me up. Or maybe it’s just NC.[/quote]
True that. I’m damn proud of my southern roots, but down here people also don’t know the difference between the words “either” and “neither”. My mother in law drives me crazy with that one. I.E. (when giving directions) “It’s neither one or two miles down the road”. So you’re saying it’s NOT one mile and NOT two miles, or did you mean to say “It’s EITHER on mile or two miles”… petty, but it kills me.
[quote]mica617 wrote:
dukefan4ever wrote:
I’m from the south and I hear this all the the time. When someone askes how many times something has happened, they will reply- a couple three times. Translation: two or three times. Maybe some others from the south can back me up. Or maybe it’s just NC.
True that. I’m damn proud of my southern roots, but down here people also don’t know the difference between the words “either” and “neither”. My mother in law drives me crazy with that one. I.E. (when giving directions) “It’s neither one or two miles down the road”. So you’re saying it’s NOT one mile and NOT two miles, or did you mean to say “It’s EITHER on mile or two miles”… petty, but it kills me.[/quote]
That’s a good one!
[quote]Tizzah wrote:
Meta is not so much “after” as “beyond”. I think “transcending” or possibly even “encompassing” would be more lucid explanations (to the extent that any 12 letter word can be considered lucid).[/quote]
Don’t sass me, boy! Aristotle’s Metaphysics followed his Physics… hence, “after physics.”
You’re correct, though, that “meta” oftentimes means encompassing or transcending, as in metalinguistics or metacognition.
[quote]RankHypocrisy wrote:
The one that makes me fly into a rage is the difference between ‘less’ and ‘fewer.’ ‘Less’ refers to an amount, while ‘fewer’ refers to a number.
Incorrect – I did less sets of bench today.
Correct – I did fewer sets of bench today.
Incorrect – There are less people in Chicago than in New York.
Correct – There are fewer people in Chicago than New York.
Please, people, for the love of God, let’s all work on this![/quote]
I agree, but I tend to put this under my “lost causes” category, along with the who/whom distinction.
FYI, if it’s a numerical quantity, it’s “fewer,” and if its some amorphous amount, it’s “less.” Also along those exact lines, “many” and “much”; e.g., I give out many hugs because I have much love.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
FYI, if it’s a numerical quantity, it’s “fewer,” and if its some amorphous amount, it’s “less.” Also along those exact lines, “many” and “much”; e.g., I give out many hugs because I have much love.[/quote]
I had an older Bosnian guy I worked with who was learning English. He would mess up the many/much thing sometimes. Once I explained to him the number/non-numbered thing, he never messed it up again. Why can’t native English speakers do this?
[quote]Can’t believe no one mentioned this, or maybe it doesn’t bother others as much as it does me, but i absolutely can’t fucking stand when people say “we or I gave 110%.”
When did 100% become less than the maximum you could give. I mean if we are talking about lifting, then i could see 110% of you 1 RM. But when you are dealing with effort, the absolute max you can give is 100%.
I have even seen people go beyond 110% and say 150 or even 200% and i want to kill myself. WTF? I am just waiting for some athlete to same he (or she) gave 100% and have the interviewer say “oh really only 100 not 110? wow, you must not care that much, huh?”
Please don’t tell me I am the only one that this pisses off. Most people i mention this to seem to shrug it off.[/quote]
Oh my god! I HATE that! Thanks for bringing it up, I can’t believe I forgot about that.
“We need people to give 110% on this team”
“I’m giving 120%!”
Shut the fuck up!! You’re just throwing out numbers here, making stuff up. If anyone truly gave 100%, they’d be dead, because they would have given EVERYTHING they had. I want to smack people with no math skills. Idiots.