Ah, I’m a foreigner. I can let students bring his homework and be forgiven :). Is this a native speaker exclusive party btw, or can anyone chime in? Ah, thanks.
“I could care less”. Isn’t it meant as an ironic statement? Like: I could care less… but for some reason I don’t.
About the “he” or “he or she” thingie. English is sadly not the only language having this problem. Altough I’m glad in most latin languages there is a rule where if there is a group of men of women, the group is always masculine.
[quote]flynniec6 wrote: pa’que [quote]
Never noticed this shortening before. What part of spain do you live in?
I live in Madrid. But I have a lot of contact with teenagers, especially via email and MSN Messenger. If you think that the regular language learning is hard, try decoding their emails!
For instance, phrases like :
“puede qm vaya a marruecos a un campo de trabajo…y a ibiza con un amigo…aunq nose…aun m qda muxo tiempo xa planearlo”
INCORRECT “just desserts”
CORRECT “just deserts”
Spelled like the barren arid land, pronounced like the treat after dinner, but it has nothing to do with dessert. It means deserved punishments.
[/quote]
I did not know this and apparently have always got it wrong! I was poised to correct you but I got schooled. Just shows to go you.
[quote]Sexy J wrote:
First, as far as the “ask” gripe, it is perfectly understandable that people pronounce it the same as axe.[/quote]
Actually I worked with a guy who explained to me that it’s a genetic thing; some people find the sk very difficult and use the “axe” pronunciation as a substitute.
Since I’ve been here, I’ve seen bright aware adults struggling to pronounce “world” and “jewellery” - they say it’s too many consonants together. So I’m more forgiving about it now.
[quote]flynniec6 wrote:
Sexy J wrote:
First, as far as the “ask” gripe, it is perfectly understandable that people pronounce it the same as axe.
Actually I worked with a guy who explained to me that it’s a genetic thing; some people find the sk very difficult and use the “axe” pronunciation as a substitute.
…[/quote]
Axe instead of ask is never OK.
As far as it being genetic, that sounds like some kind of racist horseshit. I suggest you punch the guy from work in the mouth and then ask him if his trouble speaking is genetic.
That used to be true, but is not true any longer. Most Italians speak “Italiano standard,” or at least know HOW to speak it. This is due to the prevalence of mass media. Most Italians retain their dialects as well, and that is what they speak with their friends and family. They are capable of speaking the standard form. What that means is that if you are a foreigner trying to learn Italian, you will pass people on the street saying words that you have never heard before. You won’t be able to listen in on many conversations. Solution? Stay in Tuscany.
It was a black guy that told me. It was news to me.
I JFG’d it and found:
[quote]
(Even the pronunciation of “ax” instead of “ask”, for example, may be a learned cultural trait passed down through nearly 40 generations of Black slaves and their descendants in the United States. Problems with pronouncing the double consonant “sk” in accord with the accepted English pronunciation is reportedly found in the speakers of several West African languages).[/quote]
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
It makes communication more clear.
[/quote]
Is it more clear or clearer. I forgot, lawyers get paid by the word, which would explain why you would shun hyphenisation when possible. And since when did lawyers try to make things clearer. In my experience, they always try to muddy the waters so as to increase billable hours because of the need to explain in plain english what has been written as well as increase the number of potential loopholes.
[quote]flynniec6 wrote:
I live in Madrid. But I have a lot of contact with teenagers, especially via email and MSN Messenger. If you think that the regular language learning is hard, try decoding their emails!
For instance, phrases like :
“puede qm vaya a marruecos a un campo de trabajo…y a ibiza con un amigo…aunq nose…aun m qda muxo tiempo xa planearlo”
and
“yqm cuentes qtal tva todo!!!”
drive me nuts!
[/quote]
Haha, I know. They usually write correctly to me in e-mail, but SMS, I sometimes sit down for hours decoding. Sorry about the pa’que thingie. Now that you’ve written it down, I noticed somebody saying it today
[quote]flynniec6 wrote:
Sexy J wrote:
First, as far as the “ask” gripe, it is perfectly understandable that people pronounce it the same as axe.
Actually I worked with a guy who explained to me that it’s a genetic thing; some people find the sk very difficult and use the “axe” pronunciation as a substitute.
[/quote]
So, you’re saying it’s a speech impediment, like a lisp or a child saying free instead of three. Ah geth ith ok den;)
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Italian has a very large number of dialects. This generally means that a person from one region of Italy would have much difficulty communicating with a person from another region.
That used to be true, but is not true any longer. Most Italians speak “Italiano standard,” or at least know HOW to speak it. This is due to the prevalence of mass media. Most Italians retain their dialects as well, and that is what they speak with their friends and family. They are capable of speaking the standard form. What that means is that if you are a foreigner trying to learn Italian, you will pass people on the street saying words that you have never heard before. You won’t be able to listen in on many conversations. Solution? Stay in Tuscany. [/quote]
Yes, that was the point I was trying to make, that speaking with standard language allows you to be understood by a much larger audience.
I’m repeating what I was told to add to the discussion. I pronounce it correctly. Personally, I think it’s horseshit - just about anybody determined to learn to speak correctly can.
In language profiency, other accents are allowed but artifacts - those things that hang over from another language and prevent clear speech - are a detriment to level.
For example, if you look at the Cambridge tests for languages, the profiency level is the ability to talk to an educated native. They state that there are certain things a native will understand without effort, and certain things that will trip up their mind, i.e. cause them to re-process what they heard to be sure they heard it correctly. While this happens all of us at times, in general profiecient speaking is the ability to communicate clearly and lucidly smoothly.
As always in things human, there are no hard and fast lines. However, I have found that Spanish people, for instance, do not generally differentiate enough between “ass” and “ash” or “ship” and “sheep” when pronouncing. You have to concentrate and analyse the context to be sure you’ve picked it up correctly. That to me is not proficient.
However, Americans regularly hear “mice” when I say “might” until they get used to my accent. I would consider myself proficient. We could argue about proficiency to that degree until the cows come home.
Anyway, I personally view the “ax” thing as not proficient English. If it were me, I’d work at pronoucing it properly.
[quote]vroom wrote:
So, let me axe you a question then… because I think the inability to pronounce the “ask” is crap.
If someone who can’t say “ask” robs a bank, do they wear a max?[/quote]
See my above reply to dollar.
Re: the bank thing, I’m sure they wouldn’t get around to doing it because they’d keeping asking people for their max and continue getting answers like “I dunno - 200 lbs?”
Or maybe they wouldn’t take the rix in the first place.
[quote]Imbrondir wrote:
Haha, I know. They usually write correctly to me in e-mail, but SMS, I sometimes sit down for hours decoding. Sorry about the pa’que thingie. Now that you’ve written it down, I noticed somebody saying it today :)[/quote]
I spend ages decoding SMS text in English too. Some of my friends seem to take a perverse delight in making it as complicated as possible.
Where in Norway do you notice people speaking Spanish?
