I’m 25, 5’11, 79kg (about 175lbs I think - my frame is a little narrow) and after 2.5 years training with kettlebells almost exclusively (low reps/heavy bells for strength and size), I began training with traditional weights about 3 months ago because I basically want to gain as much lean mass as possible.
I’ve been hanging out on T-Nation for close to a year so I’ve read a STACK of information so now I want to apply it.
Due to the bells, my upper back/shoulder strength and size is out of proportion with my chest and lower lats because of all the overhead work. My legs are big too due to cycling to and from work most days.
My program as of the last few weeks looks like this.
I can train 3 days a week - normally Sat, Mon and Wed - and I’ve been alternating A and B days.
Day A: Vertical plane
Deadlift 5x8
Dips 5x8
Wide-grip chins 6x6
Incline DB press or Seated shoulder press 5x5
Upright rows 6x8
Day B: Horizontal plane
Back squat 6x8
Flat BB bench 6x6-8
Narrow grip chins 6x6 (exception to horizontal plane)
Decline DB press 5x8
Cable row 5x8
I’m toying with sets and reps a bit so they’re a guide. It’s probably because it’s a little new to my body but the weight I’ve been using has been increasing very steadily in all exercises. I think that’s why my reps have been a little haphazard - I’m throwing the weight up too soon perhaps?
Thats not a program I’d recommend at all. Your hitting chest and back every other day. I would fall apart doing that.
I do like the 3 day a week training. I do the same but I hit each bodypart hard only once a week. Works for me and most other people. The rest is diet and cardio for me.
So you’d maybe use the same exercises but split them into push/pull rather than horizontal/vertical?
I constructed this program based on a critique I saw Chad Waterbury give of another guy’s program. In fact, it’s almost identical except the other one had direct arm and calf work rotated in a 3-way split like:
A1 bis
B2 tris
A3 calves
B1 bis
A2 tris
B3 calves,etc
Maybe I misinterpreted but I’m pretty sure that was it. I’m basically wanting to run with slighly more frequent sessions than once a week for each plane/muscle group.
Like I said, I’m still gaining a lot of strength in each of the lifts so it’s working on some level. I can see that I’m getting bigger too but maybe that’s because it’s early days.
[quote]Tommy28 wrote:
So you’d maybe use the same exercises but split them into push/pull rather than horizontal/vertical?
I constructed this program based on a critique I saw Chad Waterbury give of another guy’s program. In fact, it’s almost identical except the other one had direct arm and calf work rotated in a 3-way split like:
A1 bis
B2 tris
A3 calves
B1 bis
A2 tris
B3 calves,etc
Maybe I misinterpreted but I’m pretty sure that was it. I’m basically wanting to run with slighly more frequent sessions than once a week for each plane/muscle group.
Like I said, I’m still gaining a lot of strength in each of the lifts so it’s working on some level. I can see that I’m getting bigger too but maybe that’s because it’s early days.[/quote]
Well if it works than cool. I know that I can’t lift like that. I’m not a fan of CW for bodybuilding or power lifting at all but if you like his physique or the physiques of the guys who follow his training, than go for it.
To be honest, I’m not particularly impressed by CW’s physique but then I’ve seen people who look like crap who are able to get great results out of the people they train or program for.
I appreciate your responses Hagar. My goal at this stage is actually a physique that looks a lot like yours so I’m definitely listening to what you say.
I’ve just been knocked down by one of the nastiest colds I’ve had and I wonder if it’s the training. So, although I’m still gaining on the program, I might change it to push/pull instead with squats on push day and deadlifts on pull day.
Based on your experience, how do the exercises and sets/reps look?
CW seems more like a fitness functional strength type of guy. Maybe its good for a football player but not for body building. I believe its best to make your own program tailored to focus on bringing up your weak bodyparts. All those exercises are good but there’s no direct arm work. You need that if you want impressive looking developed arms. Here’s my split
sat chest bis tris
mon quads hams calves
wed back shoulders (some times some light bicep tricep work.)
Most the exercises I do are pretty basic. I might put in staggered reps or deep squats that only come up half way, fst7 sets occasionally, also my ab w/o isn’t very traditional either.
You have some good back thickness but I would concentrate on a v taper. Pull ups and pull overs with varied grips. I would concentrate on those for a while then look in to some fst7 (fascia stretching training) training. For back width thats 7 sets of pull overs with about 30 sec in between each one. You should get so pumped that your blood stretches your muscle fascia, therefore giving you muscle more room to grow. Synthol works on the same principle but I’d stay away from that for now. If you do these make sure your on top of your nutrition and rest cause these can get you over trained.
Charles Poliquin has a good split too. you hit each bodypart every 5 days.
day 1 -arms shoulders
2 legs
3 rest
4 chest and back
5 rest
I can’t really comment on your program yet cause it doesn’t make since to me. The exercises you listed look good except there’s some missing and I’d rather do back in one day than spread it out over 3 days. When you start lifting serious weight, you can’t train like that and go far.
Day A: Vertical plane
Deadlift 5x8
Dips 5x8
Wide-grip chins 6x6
Incline DB press or Seated shoulder press 5x5
Upright rows 6x8
Day B: Horizontal plane
Back squat 6x8
Flat BB bench 6x6-8
Narrow grip chins 6x6 (exception to horizontal plane)
Decline DB press 5x8
Cable row 5x8
[/quote]
not a workout that id personally use, but then again, i do my own shit. but it doesn’t look bad at all.
what id suggest you change is the 5 x 8 on deads. make it a 10 x 3 or even a 5 x 5… or go reeeal heavy and do 6 x 3.
you can only do 6 chins… with that back??? change that to 4 x 12 and man up dood, you know you can handle that.
and always DB bench over BB. thats my two cents.
ZeusNathan: I’ve only just started deadlifting as of the last couple of weeks so my plan was to start with slightly higher reps and gradually reduce/increase(reps/sets+weight) along the lines of what you suggested. Based on the fact my last session was 5x8 of 200lbs, what would be a reasonable weight for sets of 3?
It’s also why my pullups are lower at the moment. When I’m fresh I can handle more (prob not 12 though - much better with weighted chins, strangely) but the deads are really fatiguing me so I’m trying to get as many reps total that I can.
Re benching with DBs. Before I started real weights I’d never done much chest work besides some kettlebell floor presses and various forms of push ups. Is it worth sticking with the barbell while I get the weight up? (It’s REALLY low - like 135lbs for sets of 6-8 but increasing fast. Gone up 20lbs in a couple of weeks). That said, the Kbells have made me shoulder dominant so I do need to smash the pecs somehow!
Hagar: The v-taper is definitely what I’m after. Like I said, I’d always been narrow before the kettlebells (and chin ups on a bar at home) got my shoulders and upper back up but my lats lack badly. My front also lacks pretty badly but I can feel it coming up. How should I structure sessions with the pullovers? (I’m assuming pullovers are basically skullcrushers with straight arms) And with a lat focus in general? I should add more row variations I’m guessing.
I think I’ll run with push/pull for a while and then give a split like yours a go. Would you put deads on your hams or back day?
Again, thanks guys, and I really appreciate your patience.
[quote]Tommy28 wrote:
Thanks guys for your responses so far.
ZeusNathan: I’ve only just started deadlifting as of the last couple of weeks so my plan was to start with slightly higher reps and gradually reduce/increase(reps/sets+weight) along the lines of what you suggested. Based on the fact my last session was 5x8 of 200lbs, what would be a reasonable weight for sets of 3?[/quote]
Nice man, hopefully you see as much gains as i’ve seen with utilizing deadlifts. i highly recommend using high reps for exercises that you aren’t all too familiar with.
take a look at this
warm up 45lbs 1 x 15
warm up 135lbs 1 x 10
225lbs 3 x 6
245lbs 1 x 3
265lbs 1 x 1 - 3
I like to stay under the 6 rep range, for deads especially. get your high reps in as the warm up with weight that you can easily handle. not only does it prime your form, but it reinforces it.
from there, you should work up to your 3 rep max, or your PR if you’re feeling good that day.
[quote]
It’s also why my pullups are lower at the moment. When I’m fresh I can handle more (prob not 12 though - much better with weighted chins, strangely) but the deads are really fatiguing me so I’m trying to get as many reps total that I can. [/quote]
this is going to sound a bit out of line, but do the pull ups first. after a hard pull up routine, you can really feel your lats working during the deads. you’ll see what i mean.
and work on those pull ups.
yea dude, smash those pecs with DB’s and save your shoulders. while your at it, throw some weighted dips into that routine. BB benching wont kill ya, but i very much prefer the DB’s. the only time that i do bench is to check my PR.
Cheers for the advice Nathan. I’ll be increasing by deadlift weight by a fair bit in the next session for sure. And putting pullups first doesn’t sound like too bad an idea either. I hear you on the DB bench but (and it may be the ego talking here) I really feel like I want to get my BB bench numbers up first because I’m vey clearly lagging!
Hagar: should I be doing fst7 at the end of a session? And you mentioned 7 sets with 30 secs rest - should I assume quite high reps with the pullovers? Like 12-15? Or have I missed the point? Should I train back/lats as normal prior to fst7 training? Sorry for the persistent qestions but you’ve intrigued me and I’m very hungry for results through training smart as well as hard.
I’ll do some thinking and post a revised program soon. Much to take on board…
colonelquack: that’s actually not so different from from what I’ve been doing except I can only train 3 days a week. I also have one more exercise from each of the planes than the article suggests and my reps are generally lower with slightly higher sets.
I still think I’ll give a chest/tris, back/bis and legs split a go.