Yep that’s it
That also works, BUT it might not be necessary if you gradually ramp up the weight on the heavy exercise. Or at least it won’t work as well as if using the isos to potentiate jumps
No No, you were right the first time. I did mean “A” as in the A series and “B” for B series.
I’m sorry, without thinking about it, I referred to workout 1 as workout “A” and workout 2 as workout “B” as well, creating confusion in the process.
My original post was actually a question referring to two possible scenario’s and which of the two scenario’s you would prefer:
- Scenario 1: the athlete can only train 2x/week in-season and you decide to use two workouts with a concentric emphasis (for example partials in workout 1 and speed-strength in workout 2) in the A- series (as in exercise).
→ Would there be room for an isometric method in these workouts and where would it fit in the structure of the training session (A,B,C,D,…)? → answer: either as a complex with A-series exercise OR to strengthen a sport-specific angle in the B-series (referring to assistance exercise or exercise B of the training session).
- Scenario 2: the athlete can only train 2x/week in-season and you decide to use one workout with a concentric emphasis and one with an isometric emphasis (for example speed-strength in workout 1 and overcoming iso’s/eccentric speed isometrics in workout 2) in the A series.
→ With this scenario, would you periodize different concentric methods and isometric methods from phase to phase but still emphasize isometric methods on one day and concentric methods on the other day instead of doing two concentric emphasis days (as is the case in scenario 1)?
Do you understand what I’m trying to say? I have a hard time expressing myself when it comes to material I have not mastered yet.
The best place for the overcomming isometrics in that situation would be as the first exercise in a complex with the speed-strength exercise.
That case might be better for an athlete who needs a speed/power a lot more than strength
By the way, we tend to underestimate how much work an in-season athlete can do. I’m not saying that they can do the same volume as in the off-season, but they are not porcelain dolls either.
You can maintain strength and power with 1/3 of the average off-season volume. But they can do as much as 50% of their off-season volume. Simply going down to 2 sessions a week can often allow you to do that.
Thanks for the tip, I’m sure it will come in handy in due time.
I have only just started to work on designing programs for athletic performance. Until now I was using the OCTS system mainly to modify and improve the way I design/periodize programs for clients with popular common goals like fatloss or hypertrophy.
Since 90% of PT clients are regular Joe’s or Jane’s who can barely squat their own BW and are only looking for body comp changes, I’ve found that OCTS suits them perfectly. It’s a practical system in the sense that most people can only afford to train 3x/week at most, except for students and highly motivated people who are in their early thirties.
I don’t know if you can relate but I did have a hard time motivating neurotype 1A’s and 1B’s (only had two 1B’s until now, they are rare) to do slow eccentrics.
Even when I explained the benefits to them like the huge potential increase in strength gains that would come 3-6 weeks later during intensification II (or realization depending on the mesocyle structure), it was still met with resistance.
The 1A’s just want to maximize load and the 1B’s want to explode. Especially the 1B individuals were reluctant to do slower work. I decided to just keep the stretch reflex in there but do the movement slow 4/5th of the way. It was the only way I could convince them to do accentuated eccentrics.
Now I’m thinking about nudging these guys towards athletic performance. At first they wanted to build muscle for aesthetics but now their goal is to be strong and powerful. Hence, my questions.
Thank you for answering my follow up questions, I went a little overboard this time. @lordgains my apologies for bombarding your thread, I hope you got something out of it.
Thank you Christian for the invaluable in-depth answer.
I decided to now put my little strength work (squats and bench) on Sunday and do two simple bodybuilding routines for shoulders and back during the week.
This way I can maximize the football trainings, profit from the training and give it everything I got.
Thanks for chiming in. Will take your advice to heart.
The biggest thing will be to see if I’m still productive at work with the harsh Football trainings. I’ve wished I was 17 again a few times since starting. Work was not an issue back then.
Edit: Strained my hip flexor during the first sprint, guess I’ll be out for a week or two. The gym really is the safest sport.
Apparently our football season is structured differently than in the US, because of weather, so our season is actually in summer (didn’t know that, wow).
This means we are currently in off-season training mode and are doing conditioning two times per week. Other players are going to the gym 3 times per week additionally and they gave me their strength standard which we should aim for during training.
None of them look like they’ve seen a weight room from the inside. The bigger guys are big with too little muscle for the fat they are carrying and the thin guys are just thin and lean without any muscle worth mentioning. The strength standards that they aim for, I’m completely crushing them. They for example aim for a 1.3x BW squat while I’m sitting at a rather comfortable 1.8x without pushing it in training. I also have the best physique from a power-sport perspective and I’m crushing the conditioning drills without any effort while others are moaning and struggling. It for sure is different than in the US.
Funny that my tackles and my blocks are rather week then, compared to the more experienced players. It seems to be 95% technique that I’m lacking. This gives me hope, as that is something I believe I can figure out till the season starts.
Good luck with that, I’ll never forget a specific May game in the South of France
Same here. They just need basic training.
Yep. When I started, I was getting crushed without hope or mercy by tiny, old, fat men with a single hand.
Getting bigger and stronger helped me tremendously, but I never was (and I’m still not ) really strong. I was one of the best in the game just because of technique. But when there’s a 180 kgs giant, technique can only get you so far LOL
That’s sports, though. Same as basketball - I can be tall and quick, but have no ability to manage the ball.
There’s a phrase here in the US “looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.” Gym strength and track speed aren’t the same as on the field. It certainly helps, but the sport is always more important. That’s why I suggested making a lot of your conditioning actually be running your routes. The other thing that will be difficult is learning your reads when you go live, but as long as you’re winning your one-on-ones you’ll be ok.
Remember on blocking and tackling: low pad wins! I’m excited for you - I hope it goes well!
There’s always freaks, though; nothing you can do about that. I like watching phenomenal college running backs try to transition to the NFL and play their same undisciplined, pure athlete game: it’s a bit different when you’ve got 6’5”, 285 lbs defensive ends that can run with your receivers!
Hello @Christian_Thibaudeau and @TrainForPain
Thank you guys very much for your advice a few months ago.
I have new information and something you could possibly help me with.
My position is running back. The season starts in June, I am currently ranked the third RB on the deputy chart.
I am one of the stronger guys in the team, by far the strongest RB in the gym. The only guys stronger are the guys that weigh 30+ kg more and most of them are in shooting range for me. So strength is not an issue for the league I’m playing in.
Now to the bad part. I suck at the drills. I don’t suck at scrimmage and I don’t suck at understanding what I’m supposed to do, but I just look horrible during the standard RB drills like cutting, high knee runs, foot work.
Coordination or rhythm is not really a problem, but I just don’t get the drills because I’ve never done them in my life and we do them for 5-10 mins every workout which doesn’t give me the necessary time to engrain the movement patterns. Also, we are currently out of a proper RB coach which doesn’t help either.
To make it short, I’ve thought about:
Cutting the gym altogether to allow more
- Recovery to be more effective during practice because I struggle with recovery with my current regimen
- Time to do private on field drill work to get better faster because I need way more reps to get better
So my plan would be to practice 4 days a week onfield work.
If I could add one workout in the weight room, what would be the 4-5 exercises you would be doing and at what intensity level?
Well, the point I want to make is that the fact that you are the strongest probably earned you a spot on the team and that the fact that you suck at drills but not in scrimmage could indicate that physical strength allows you to compensate for lack of skills during the game.
Therefore losing some of that strength might rob you of the one advantage that you have.
Many drills can be done in a fairly small space and you could do them as the “warm-up” of your lifting workouts if you need more practice time.
I’m certainly in agreement with @Christian_Thibaudeau above, as I often am.
Some food for thought (and without any knowledge of your offense), if you’re that deep on the chart you aren’t realistically going to get a lot of first and second down touches. So now how do you see the field, knowing that you’re strong? I’d offer that you can become indispensable as a third down back. This requires two things:
- Pass blocking. This is freaking hard, because you have to take on a dude that’s bigger than you and he has a running start. Hit mean in practice and make your name!
- Catching out of the flat. Less important, but if you have sure hands this is a huge plus. Catching in this situation often just comes down to having the guts to watching the ball into your hands even knowing someone is coming.
Are you slow? Do you lack quickness? Or are you just bad at the drills?
If you’re slow (or out of shape), that’s going to take some dedicated work. What work kinda depends on the issue.
If you’re not quick, there’s not much you can do in this time span and with your genetics (in my opinion). You can look quick by getting solid at the playbook and recognizing what’s coming.
If you just suck at the drills, just practice. I can’t imagine it’s going to crush your recovery if you’re just learning where your feet need to go. Like Coach said, you can do it anywhere.
After I wrote all this out, I realized: you’re probably going to earn your start playing special teams. Keep hitting hard and fearless and you’ll get noticed!
Thanks for checking in! I’m pumped for you!
Thanks for the input to both of you.
I’d say that one of the RBs is a tad bit more talented than I am as he’s also not been playing that long but doing the drills way better. The other guy is definitely not more talented and weaker but has been playing for 4 years. Therefore, I think I can become at least second in line if I can become better at the drills.
Yes I see. Just to clarify, our coach is not in the weight room with us. He doesn’t know I’m far stronger. From my experience, I think I won’t lose much strength by cutting back the gym time to once a week. I’ve been in the gym for 10 years straight and the times when I had to take a 4-6 week break, it didn’t affect my strength much.
Why I’m even considering to cut back the gym time is because I can’t recover it. The football training is so challenging mentally and physically that I’m completely exhausted afterwards. Not the good kind of exhausted. I usually can’t sleep for hours after practice. That’s why I don’t want to add more work even if it’s just some drills. I want to replace.
Sometimes the gym leaves me pretty sore as well which negatively affects practice, that’s another reason.
I’m good at that yes! Though I tried not to kill our own defender coming around the line the last few times. Maybe I should go harder.
I think I’m good at that as well though we don’t have many RB pass plays.
I’m definitely not the quickest, we are talking pretty low level football here, but I’d say I’ve seen slower. Primarily I’m bad at the drills.
Yes, I’m very good at that. I’m watching a lot of tape to get better at that aspect as well.
Here are some more thoughts.
First, I want to tell you that I not only trained football players, I also coached football for 11 years (3 provincial championships, coached high school and college).
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Drills are designed to make you better at the game. While it is technically possible to be good at the game and not at drills, it is pretty rare (unless the coaches make up stupid, worthless drills). Drills practice the fundamental skills involved in playing football. If you can’t do the drills, which are normally very simple, you will lack skill on the field. You might not realize that right now because, by your own assessment, you are good at scrimmage. Again, that is your assessment, you might not see the subtleties you are not doing properly and that can come to hurt you in a game. An aa scrimmage isn’t the same as a game.
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There is really no substitute for playing. If the second-string player has 4 years of experience, that is a huge advantage and you can’t make that up by just doing drills. Now, you MIGHT be better than that guy (or your own evaluation might be biased) but coaches, especially traditionalists, don’t like unknown values. With a player who has played 4 years they know what to expect. You are untested. Coaches will have a pretty strong bias against guys who never played before. If you have out-of-this-world speed and agility that might be enough to change their minds (in football a freak athlete is a fast and agile athlete) but not strength. And I’m not talking about being slightly faster or more agile than the others, I’m talking about being lightyears ahead of them. If that’s not the case, it is unlikely that you will be given a significant role in the regular offense. That sucks, but that’s the way it is. Being better at drills will not be enough to change the coaches’ mind: their opinion of your rank is likely based on your lack of experience, not that you do poorly at drills. The fact that you do poorly at drills only confirms their thinking. Getting better at drills will not change their opinion (that you are a risky option due to your lack of experience), it will just make them think that you are catching up to the others as far as practicing goes… it doesn’t give you on-field experience.
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In my years of coaching I’ve had guys with little experience who ended up starters. Normally what happens is that they get their shot because of 1) playing in garbage time (playing in the 4th quarter when you either lead by A LOT or lose by A LOT) or 2) playing due to injuries. In both cases, if the player comes in and does very well, it can start to change the coaches’ mind and eventually lead to more playing time. But realistically it will take you at least a full season of almost not playing to see more playing time.
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A good example is a guy I played with. The guy came to college football having never played (he was a hockey player). He had very good athleticism, he was strong, very agile and fairly fast. BUT that wasn’t enough to earn him a spot on the field on defense (he was a linebacker). HOWEVER he got placed on the kickoff coverage team where he earned the nickname Mr.Kickoff because he was always making good plays on the kickoff due to his aggressiveness and physical capacities. Sadly that was not enough to earn hm a spot as a started. In 3 years he started one game on defense. BUT he did see more playing time. It took a full season before he saw the field on defense though.
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As for your training, maybe look for methods that will not drain ou or leave you sore. You should focus on power and explosiveness at this point anyway, since you have the strength. Maintain your strength and do a lot of explosive work.
Thanks a lot coach.
I am well aware, that’s why I seek your advice.
I fear so. The drills are good drills but the coaching is lacking and I am lacking behind on the execution. Yes they are simple, I believe if I do even one drill for a concentrated 20 minutes by myself I’ll have it figured out. It’s the pressure of the workout and the little time. Usually per practice I run a specific drill 2 times, it’s just not enough.
You are right. It bothers me to think I won’t get touches when the season starts. It’s such a huge time and money „investment“ that I don’t like the odds of no return on investment.
Their opinion right now is I believe largely based on performance on these, as that’s what they could evaluate up until now, at least for the players with little experience. But you are right.
Yes, that’s one reason I came here, the number one RB just got hurt and is out of practice for 4-6 weeks, I hope I can make an impact in that time span.
Damn.
Thank you, very useful advice. I’ll focus on power cleans, plyos and maintaining strength. I think I’d do good to add in more “core” work as well.
By the way, training in the gym has become a struggle when every week a different joint is bruised.
Quick update. I had practice today. Didn’t go to the gym since Monday, haven’t had a football practice this week. Slept 8+ hours each night and had a rather low stress week.
Result: my drill performance was way up.
Coaches for the first time joked with me, told me I was getting way better and I actually was. Everything was easier. My steps were light, instead of heavy and slow. I read situations in scrimmage correctly all the time.
This very much indicates to me I was mostly fatigued. I will stop the gym until after training camp and focus on football practices and drills.
Hello Coach Thibaudeau, hello @TrainForPain ,
I have a quick technical question I can’t get a straight answer to from my coaches.
A general mantra for RBs is “stay low” and always have “forward lean”. But when we practice driving through contact, they always say “don’t put your head down”. When I then tried to turn my body to the side and give the defender only the shoulder, my coach said “never turn your body away from the defender”.
I watched a lot of NFL film and every single time there’s the chance of contact, the RB puts his shoulder down and with it his head. Often when the contact comes from straight ahead, they even truck the defender head first.
The question is: since I obviously have to lower my head when lowering my shoulder, how do I do it correctly to protect my neck while also being able to go full speed into the contact with the chance of hitting head first?
I right now imagine it like I do it in a squat, where I keep my spine completely neutral and my head stays very slightly bend up but essentially stays in line with my torso, so no bending the neck in the direction of the floor or up to the ceiling. Would this be the way to go? How do I then flex my neck to protect it, do I pull the shoulder blades up or down, do I flex the traps?
Advice would be highly appreciated.
Here’s a video example from the NFL.
Edit: tagged the right guy