Help With Football/Rugby Technique

Training Powerlifting
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Juking/cutting/illusive moves. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on technique for executing illusive moves for football and rugby. I’m 5’10" (def perfect height for a running back) 175lbs and my style of running is very illusive. I didn’t make the football team for Slippery Rock because I had poor grades my first semester due to major slacking off.

I got that cleared up though. But i have to wait till next year now so I joined rugby. I play back yard football with some hardcore athletes, some of which play semi pro and college ball… and they adjust to a man’s style of play very quickly.

Just so you know where I am and what I already know (this will help you understand what I’m looking for I hope :D), I’ll post some info about me. I am a freshman at Slippery Rock University of PA and my major is exercise science.

I have taken multiple classes dealing with exercise science already and I own between 23 and 25 books on weight lifting, anatomy, performance training, nutrition, athletic injuries, and bodybuilding, so I actually know quite a bit. That stuff is my passion and I research it anywhere I can find it. I have trained many high school and college athletes also.

So I think I have heard just about everything, but maybe there is something simple that I am missing or something new or a technique that you guys and gals are successful with. Football is pretty much my life and I don’t know much about rugby, but I’m open to it and I definately put it at the top of my list.

My 40 time isn’t great and I can be caught in the open field, but (I swear I am not trying to brag) my vision of the field is excellent and my agility is also excellent. I can hit very hard and drive the largest players out there if i have to, but I like to make people miss instead.

Alot of my friends say that I am one of the most illusive ball carriers they have ever played against. LaDainian Tomlinson is my inspiration.

I understand the importance of proper arm movement, lean, hamstring conditioning, and the science behind it… but if anyone could just give me pointers from your perspective, I would greatly appreciate it.

And while you’re at it, I would like to know your achievements, experiences, and any questions that I might be able to help you with too… no matter what sport you are in or what your goal is. Thank you very much…

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I think this is an excellent topic to discuss. It’s really hard to find literature on running and cutting or how to train to improve either of those techniques.

I used to play football and moved on to rugby about 5 years ago. I’ve always been more of a power runner so some study of elusive running is something I could really use.

I’ve never really studied running technique formally, could you elaborate on the proper arm movement, hamstring conditioning or any of the other things you mentioned? I would appreciate it.

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I would do the dot drill and agility ladder it helps… anything to keep your feet moving at a fast pace… whats ur strength level i mean i dont know much but i kno alot of it comes from flexibility and strength i hope this helps… i am too training for football i wanna play WR im 6 foot and 164 lbs

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[quote]rumblefish wrote:
I think this is an excellent topic to discuss. It’s really hard to find literature on running and cutting or how to train to improve either of those techniques.

I used to play football and moved on to rugby about 5 years ago. I’ve always been more of a power runner so some study of elusive running is something I could really use.

I’ve never really studied running technique formally, could you elaborate on the proper arm movement, hamstring conditioning or any of the other things you mentioned? I would appreciate it.[/quote]

Thanks bro. Yeah it’s really hard to find studies on cutting and and running technique. When you sprint, your hands should come up to your face. Your body is a system of levers so it works to keep an equillibrium between both sides at all times. When your left leg moves forward, your right arm moves forward also. When you run, there is alot of movement (obviously) happening. Many people don’t properly swing their arms, which can slow them down quite a bit because if your left arm swings outward when it moves forward, your right leg will also swing out while driving forward. You want your arms and legs to go straight forward and straight back so your body doesn’t have to waste time and energy compensating for poor form. When you swing your arm forward, it should be at about 90 degrees and it should come up to or slighty above your head. when your arm goes back, you should thrust it backward as hard as you can until it is behind your hip and straightened. You should not make a fist, but have loose hands while sprinting. Your speed does not come from standing straight up. You should be as horizontal as possible while running so you can generate as much momentum as possible. While cutting you should be very low so that you can generate the proper speed when needed. Defenders anticipate where they will tackle a ball carrier even before the ball carrier arrives. The key is to disturb their “rythm” at an ideal time. Looking in a certain direction and then going the other way can throw the defender off, as can exaggerating a step in a direction opposite of which you cut. popping the hips quickly in the direction opposite of which you will juke is my favorite way to throw a defender off because most defenders look at your center mass and believe that if your hips are going one way, then you must go that way. But if your hip flexability is good and you have strong, quick hip flexors, you can pull this move off fairly easily. Probably the most important part of being illusive is your vison of the field and planning ahead. Always have a path in which you will run, and look at every defender who gets in your way as just another obstacle in your path. The first time you get the ball in a game, don’t juke. Just lower your shoulder as hard as possible into the defender. Give him the idea that you are strictly a power runner and that you are not afraid to run him over. This should cause him to treat you as a power runner. If he is a good defender, he will anticipate the hit next time, and will try to put his shoulder into you early. This will give you the opportunity to make him miss easily. This generally works on linebackers better than on defensive backs. Simply running away from defensive backs, giving them a stiff arm, or running them over is usually a better choice unless they play aggressive defense. When they come flying in at you, make their speed a weakness by juking. If you learn the defense and each player’s tendencies, you will have a great chance of figuring out what is going through their heads when they see you coming. Generally, linebackers think “meat!” They are bigger and slower than the defensive backs but they usually shuffle alot better and always keep their shoulders square to the line of scrimmage… and they are always looking for a big hit. So you want to throw in an early juke to make them expect that you have chosen your running path, and then when they turn their hips or lunge for you, make another juke. This should get them out of the picture. For defensive linemen, basically the same idea. One juke is usually only needed for a D linemen though because they are taught to stay in their gaps and are usually getting blocked. They also are usually leaning forward more than backers because their job is to penetrate the line quickly unless told otherwise. The forward lean and size of most linemen are their weakness. Defensive backs tend to be more conservative. I’m not saying they don’t work hard and hit hard, but they are small, fast, and their main job is to neutralize deep threats. They are good at persuing so it is all about angles for them. When they are running to meet you, just change direction early and force them to change angles.

Athlete’s hamstrings tend to be the weak spot of their game. The hamstrings should be between 70 and 90 percent the strength of the quads. Most athletes in general have hamstrings around 50 to 65 percent. That small percentage makes a huge difference in performance. Doing good mornings, hamstring curls, and stiff legged deadlifts are great exercises for increasing hamstring strength. Deep squats also help alot. The hamstrings are naturally slower than the quads, so hamstring speed development is crucial… don’t do any of the lifts I mentioned quickly though because you are likely to get injured by doing so. Before games, I do foot taps to “prime” my hamstrings for quick movement. This is where you bring your knee to your chest and thrust your foot down and back as quickly as you can. Make sure your foot just barely drags on the ground and that you pull your knee back up to your chest as quickly as possible. I do about 25 foot taps in a row with each leg. This has proven to be very helpful with cutting and juking for me. Proprioceptive Neuromuscular facilitation (PNF stretching) has also helped me alot. I do it two or three times briefly with each leg before games. Just type in PNF stretching on google and you should be good.

Thanks for the reply man… I hope I helped you out.

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[quote]jglaze11 wrote:
I would do the dot drill and agility ladder it helps… anything to keep your feet moving at a fast pace… whats ur strength level i mean i dont know much but i kno alot of it comes from flexibility and strength i hope this helps… i am too training for football i wanna play WR im 6 foot and 164 lbs[/quote]

Ok thanks a bunch man I’ll do that. My strength level… I squat 635lbs. I bench 245lbs. Deadlift 365lbs. 27 dips max. 16 chin ups max. Deep squat 315. WR… good position. Alot harder than people realize though. Thanks alot for the advice man.

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My first piece of advice is to get stronger man. Dont want to rip on you but Im 16 and outlift you in the squat and deadlift.

As for my experience I have played in state teams and compteted in national rugby tournaments. So obviously all my experience relates to rugby.

In terms of developing a good step, its all about practice. Watch alot of rugby and look who has good steps or jukes as you boys like to call it. When you find players with good steps look how they set the step up and look how actually do the step. Just practice that. The biggest thing to being a good stepper is to be able to find the gaps and hit them but again this just comes with game time.

If your looking for inspiration I suggest Benji Marshall. Look him up on youtube, you will see what Im talking about :slight_smile:

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The new thing in rugby regarding elusive running is called Y-lines. It differs from the traditional sidestep where you plant and power off the opposite foot to the direction of your step. For a Y-line, simply veer off in the direction you wish to go. It has the advantage of not having to drop your running speed. To execute it well your feet almost cross over just before you veer.

So if I was to Y off to the left, my left foot would almost step in front of my right instead of alongside it. Then my next step would be my right foot actually moving to the left of my left foot. It does not replace the traditional step but should be seen as another weapon in your arsenal and is worth practicing.

In rugby, whatever elusive move you use, dont forget that you can dummy a pass as well. This is something a football running back or WR cant do.

(I have 30yrs rugby playing experience and have coached professionally also)

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Now, I’m a prop, so I know jack shit about running, but I do however want to congratulate you in not making the football team. Good on ya’!

:wink:

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Haha thanks man.

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[quote]ryansecond5 wrote:
My first piece of advice is to get stronger man. Dont want to rip on you but Im 16 and outlift you in the squat and deadlift.

As for my experience I have played in state teams and compteted in national rugby tournaments. So obviously all my experience relates to rugby.

In terms of developing a good step, its all about practice. Watch alot of rugby and look who has good steps or jukes as you boys like to call it. When you find players with good steps look how they set the step up and look how actually do the step. Just practice that. The biggest thing to being a good stepper is to be able to find the gaps and hit them but again this just comes with game time.

If your looking for inspiration I suggest Benji Marshall. Look him up on youtube, you will see what Im talking about :)[/quote]

Yeah I’m def working on strength. I’ve been lifting for 3 years and I kinda got hung up last year from surgery on my right knee and the year before with surgery on my left. My luck kinda sucks. But I only squatted 225 before the surgeries so I’m moving up pretty quick. And I def don’t take it as ripping on me… I’m always looking for advice and new ideas, so I’m thankful that you mentioned that.

Thanks for the advice man.

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[quote]deanosumo wrote:
The new thing in rugby regarding elusive running is called Y-lines. It differs from the traditional sidestep where you plant and power off the opposite foot to the direction of your step. For a Y-line, simply veer off in the direction you wish to go. It has the advantage of not having to drop your running speed. To execute it well your feet almost cross over just before you veer.

So if I was to Y off to the left, my left foot would almost step in front of my right instead of alongside it. Then my next step would be my right foot actually moving to the left of my left foot. It does not replace the traditional step but should be seen as another weapon in your arsenal and is worth practicing.

In rugby, whatever elusive move you use, dont forget that you can dummy a pass as well. This is something a football running back or WR cant do.

(I have 30yrs rugby playing experience and have coached professionally also)[/quote]

Huh. Y lines… I’ve actually seen LaDainian Tomlinson do that but I never knew the name for it. I never figured out how to execute it properly until now either. Thanks man I’ll def work on that.

Wow that’s really impressive! Thanks alot man.

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So what do you guys think my goals should look like for squats, bench, deadlifts, power cleans, dips, and chin-ups? I mean from your experience, what would you say a well-rounded rugby/football ball carrier should lift?

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[quote]jmb9286 wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
The new thing in rugby regarding elusive running is called Y-lines. It differs from the traditional sidestep where you plant and power off the opposite foot to the direction of your step. For a Y-line, simply veer off in the direction you wish to go. It has the advantage of not having to drop your running speed. To execute it well your feet almost cross over just before you veer.

So if I was to Y off to the left, my left foot would almost step in front of my right instead of alongside it. Then my next step would be my right foot actually moving to the left of my left foot. It does not replace the traditional step but should be seen as another weapon in your arsenal and is worth practicing.

In rugby, whatever elusive move you use, dont forget that you can dummy a pass as well. This is something a football running back or WR cant do.

(I have 30yrs rugby playing experience and have coached professionally also)

Huh. Y lines… I’ve actually seen LaDainian Tomlinson do that but I never knew the name for it. I never figured out how to execute it properly until now either. Thanks man I’ll def work on that.

Wow that’s really impressive! Thanks alot man.[/quote]

No problem.

LaDanian Tomlinson…now that would be someone to emulate.
Try the Y-lines and get someone to watch you or video yourself. Try to Y off in both directions. Start off jogging until you get the technique and then build up the pace. I personally find the step across before the step which changes direction as the key but some guys can do it without it (freaks).

As for your question about strength levels, while strength is important for rugby, don`t obsess over it. It sounds like you are doing the right exercises. You could also focus on power in your training. Do some explosive training with moderate weight, like Westside style dynamic box squats, or power cleans, jump squats, clean and press, dynamic bench press, stuff like that. It can help make you faster.

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Alright thanks. Come to think of it, power sets is what I’m lacking in my workouts. I’m glad you brought that up. I can’t believe I’ve overlooked power sets all along. You’ve def been a HUGE help man thanks alot!

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I’m still not sure I understand exactly what a Y-line is. On the left cut are you putting your right foot across your left, criss-crossing your legs? I think I get the idea but I don’t feel like it would be a very stable way to cut. Any videos of it around?

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[quote]rumblefish wrote:
I’m still not sure I understand exactly what a Y-line is. On the left cut are you putting your right foot across your left, criss-crossing your legs? I think I get the idea but I don’t feel like it would be a very stable way to cut. Any videos of it around?[/quote]

Actually on a left cut you put your left foot in front of your right, then your next step is your right leg powering across your body to the left.

It is stable but you wouldn`t want to be tackled as you are doing that first step.

I don`t know of any videos of it

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As a more exciting (but less feasible) approach, book a holiday to the islands in Fiji, and spend a couple of weeks playing beach rugby with those guys. They have the most unbelievable natural steps (or jukes), and are very elusive. After a week of getting made to look like an idiot, you start to read their steps and can work out what they are doing, and hopefully imitate it.

I coached rugby to kids out there - and on my first day got stepped by a ten year old, not my greatest moment. Eating nothing but fish, veg and cassava (a root carbohydrate with testosterone or something in) will also get you in decent shape too! I know this won’t have helped at all, so just youtube william ryder instead.

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I WOULD CHECK OUT DR.MIKE YESSIS BOOKS IF YOUR INTRESTED IN SPORT TECHNIQE HES ONE OF THE BEST THEIRE IS!!

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search jason robinson on youtube

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[quote]jmb9286 wrote:
I squat 635lbs.[/quote]

Not meaning to be a jackass, but how did you manage that?

I’m guessing it was equipped? And did you hit parallel?

Seeing as that is one massive squat and at 175lbs please forgive me for being somewhat very cynical but if you did it, well done. That’s amazing.

Back to the subject;

I’m 219 lbs and play fullback. My running isn’t highly illusive but I’m very good at breaking tackles. I always found that a lot of single leg work (single leg deadlifts, squats, lunges, even GHRs) have helped a lot for my sidesteps.

Also, squat jumps and running with resistance (sleds etc) helped me gain acceleration.

As for technique, I found that practice makes perfect. I would usually get the two wingers on my team and get atleast 2 sessions (45 min each) that consisted of trying to sidestep past each other. Eventually, you find out through trial and error what works and what doesnt.

Personally, I find that nothing beats a good hand off. :slight_smile: