College Football 2011 2.0

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121

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field.

122

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Okie state has the horses to tire out LSU’s corners… Maybe.

Damn beast of a team there in Louisiana.

123

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Pat - its a variation of “x2”

Now if the pedi coach promised any of the boys greater access to the team or a greater chance of making the team, would that not be a recruiting violation?[/quote]

I don’t believe so. [/quote]

How is getting a child to engage in sex with promises of playing at PSU any less of a recruiting violation that getting the kid laid during a recruiting visit?

124

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-planning-Joe-Paterno-exit-amid-sexual-abuse-scandal-110811

Report: Penn St. planning Paterno’s exit

From same article:
“According to the indictment, Paterno notified athletic director Tim Curley after a then-graduate assistant on his coaching staff reported that he witnessed Sandusky having sexual intercourse with a boy in the Penn State locker room shower. Sandusky was no longer a coach at the school, but had access to the locker room as part of a non-profit organization he ran for at-risk children.”

Damn predator.

125

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).

126

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02

127

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Pat - its a variation of “x2”

Now if the pedi coach promised any of the boys greater access to the team or a greater chance of making the team, would that not be a recruiting violation?[/quote]

I don’t believe so. [/quote]

How is getting a child to engage in sex with promises of playing at PSU any less of a recruiting violation that getting the kid laid during a recruiting visit?
[/quote]

Becuase I don’t believe these actions equated to a quantifiable advantage for Penn State in the win-loss column. This was something Sandusky was doing on the side, which seemingly took a lot of effort not only in its’ execution but in keeping it quiet/hidden.

128

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Pat - its a variation of “x2”

Now if the pedi coach promised any of the boys greater access to the team or a greater chance of making the team, would that not be a recruiting violation?[/quote]

I don’t believe so. [/quote]

How is getting a child to engage in sex with promises of playing at PSU any less of a recruiting violation that getting the kid laid during a recruiting visit?
[/quote]

Becuase I don’t believe these actions equated to a quantifiable advantage for Penn State in the win-loss column. This was something Sandusky was doing on the side, which seemingly took a lot of effort not only in its’ execution but in keeping it quiet/hidden.
[/quote]

Yea this is a real crime.

129

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-planning-Joe-Paterno-exit-amid-sexual-abuse-scandal-110811

Report: Penn St. planning Paterno’s exit

From same article:
“According to the indictment, Paterno notified athletic director Tim Curley after a then-graduate assistant on his coaching staff reported that he witnessed Sandusky having sexual intercourse with a boy in the Penn State locker room shower. Sandusky was no longer a coach at the school, but had access to the locker room as part of a non-profit organization he ran for at-risk children.”

Damn predator.[/quote]

Hmmm, I think I am going to start an organization for recovering nymphomaniacs…

130

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02[/quote]

Should I even mention when TCU and USC last met in a bowl game?

131

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-planning-Joe-Paterno-exit-amid-sexual-abuse-scandal-110811

Report: Penn St. planning Paterno’s exit

From same article:
“According to the indictment, Paterno notified athletic director Tim Curley after a then-graduate assistant on his coaching staff reported that he witnessed Sandusky having sexual intercourse with a boy in the Penn State locker room shower. Sandusky was no longer a coach at the school, but had access to the locker room as part of a non-profit organization he ran for at-risk children.”

Damn predator.[/quote]

If paterno had any knowledge and failed to do anything he does need to go.

132

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02[/quote]

See I had UT picked to win that year :stuck_out_tongue:

133

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02[/quote]

Should I even mention when TCU and USC last met in a bowl game?[/quote]

Spike we have had this discussion we both want a +1 or playoff.

Many people love to talk about College ball and people who love the SEC have the rights to brag at this point in time. However all things go in life, at some point they will fall and another division will stand up and take over. I just want College ball to move away from the beauty contest and get to the cage fighting.

134

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

Who do you think would beat Boise out of the SEC? Not challenging your statement, just curious to know.

135

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

If your argument is that LSU could beat anyone else on the field I would agree with you. Otherwise I’m not sure what your point is.

If Boise gets spanked (hopefully Saturday) in a BCS game what does that settle once and for all? Was anything settled once and for all when Boise beat OU? When Utah beat Bama (badly)? When TCU beat Wiscy? How about when tOSU got destroyed in the title game 2 years in a row? They still get mentioned in the MNC discussion whenever they have a good year.

And so what if Boise loses 2 games a year in the SEC? LSU won an MNC with 2 losses.

I’ll be the first to admit TCU is ot the same team that they were last year, but having about 20 guys graduate (and most of them literally graduated) will do that. I’m not plugging them for a BCS bowl (actually hoping for Independance Bowl, 4 hour drive-1 night in hotel, 2 days missed work tops).

136

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02[/quote]

See I had UT picked to win that year :P[/quote]

LOL, man that year was when I started to HATE ESPN. I mean that was fucking ridiculous fucking hype. Its hard to point to history with one hand and discount it with the other.

OU has had a horrible bowl record over the last few years, but they get high rankings every year. NON BCS teams have a decent record if I remember correctly so which is it?

137

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02[/quote]

Should I even mention when TCU and USC last met in a bowl game?[/quote]

Spike we have had this discussion we both want a +1 or playoff.

Many people love to talk about College ball and people who love the SEC have the rights to brag at this point in time. However all things go in life, at some point they will fall and another division will stand up and take over. I just want College ball to move away from the beauty contest and get to the cage fighting. [/quote]

AMEN!!! Just like College Baseball.

I don’t follow pro sports as much bit the success of the Rangers and Mavs has been a real eye opener for me. If pro baseball had a BCS the Yankees would be in the series every year.

138

I hope Boise State gets a shot at Bama/LSU.BS has beat every single big time program they’ve plate in the last 3-4 seasons and every time people doubt them before the game. I bet they would do better than most people think. I think they would beat Bama (probably not LSU)

139

Every time a big BCS school has come up on the schedule for Boise, everyone has said they would get their asses beat and “finally just end the discussion once and for all.” What has the outcome been for every one of those games?

Hell, the last few seasons, they haven’t even been able to play another major program in the bowl games (only other non-AQ schools). Maybe Boise should be given the chance on the big stage if you truly want to finally end the discussion once and for all.

If they can never be given the chance to compete for a championship, regardless of their resume year after year, why are they even allowed in Division I? Why are they even in the polls if #5 is their absolute ceiling?

140

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
What’s going on these days is why we need a playoff, or atleast a plus 1

LSU v Boise
OSU v Stanford

Then the winners play for the title. Losers could still go to NIT esgue bowls. [/quote]

LSU, Bama, OSU, Stanford would all wipe the floor with Boise. They don’t need to be talked about.

Personally I think Stanford has the best shot at beating bama or lsu.[/quote]

Boise has already won 2 BCS bowls. How many more do they need to win to be worthy of discussion? Has Stanford or OSU ever won one? David is 4-1 in BCS bowls v. Goliath, (Utah twice, Boise, and TCU, compared to Hawaii’s loss).

Hopefully my Horned Frogs will end said discussion on Saturday.

I love Bama, they are my #2 team, but 1 they just had their shot and lost it, plus they absolutely gagged on the National state against one of the unwashed (Utah) a few years ago.

Again, we need a playoff so this can be settled on the field. [/quote]

Against TCU and Ok st (which admittedly was a great game), they’d get wiped against the top of the SEC. I’d argue that this years LSU/Bama combination are two of the best teams they’ve produced in the last decade (which pains me to admit as LSU can go to hell) and really are just in a league of their own right now. Putting boise up against them - which I almost hope they finally do just to end the discussion once and for all, thus nullifying any rights to play in a championship game ever again. Put Boise in the SEC, or even the Big12 and they’re a 2-3 loss team if not worse (I wouldn’t be surprised at a 4 loss Boise in the SEC).[/quote]

I remember hearing all the same horse shit when USC played UT in 2005.

USC is like a pro team, best team of all time.

Fans and media need to STFU and let the players decide it on the field. :slight_smile:

Just my .02[/quote]

See I had UT picked to win that year :P[/quote]

LOL, man that year was when I started to HATE ESPN. I mean that was fucking ridiculous fucking hype. Its hard to point to history with one hand and discount it with the other.

OU has had a horrible bowl record over the last few years, but they get high rankings every year. NON BCS teams have a decent record if I remember correctly so which is it?
[/quote]

Non BCS is 4-1, 5-2 if you count Boise’s win over TCU in the Fiesta.