http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/message/32612
I was reading over at the supertraining group, and a thread is developing in which it seems almost every poster agrees that CNS overtraining is nearly (or completely) impossible.
Thoughts?? I thought CNS fatigue was accepted as a very plausable cause of overtraining . . .
A few of the posts (since you have to join):
START#1
Hal:
I see this a lot especially with powerlifters. It’s not
a good idea to take off the competition week. The CNS
needs/should be stimulated during that time frame. It
has been said that anything past 3 days of inactivity
begins the process of “detraining” or “de-adaptation”.
Look at it this way: when a lifter maxes-out in the
gym, he/she doesn’t take off a whole week prior to the
gym-max, so why would someone take off that long for a
meet? The body is used to performing at some level of
activity, in this case powerlifting, certain times
during the week. To suddenly stop and do nothing,
under the belief that “recovery” will be maximized and
the sports performance peak will be ultimately
realized on that weekend is rooted in speculative
insight. Just like training squats more than 1/week
will lead to OT; this is nonsense. I’m an OL and I
train squats (back or front) every workout, and when I
compete (usually 6-7/yr.) I always train at least
twice during the competition week. 80-90% on the first
workout, and anywhere from 60-80% on the second.
Powerlifters need to grasp this concept. I’ve seen it
for too long this mentality of resting too much during
the competition week. DO SOMETHING…that’s what your
body’s accustomed to. It’s not accustomed to just
sitting around and awaiting the meet. Recovery is
actually enhanced when you’re performing your activity
then doing nothing (this is true, this has been
physiologically proven, not just my opinion).
Hope this sheds some light on it.
Alex McInnes
Wilmington, DE
END #1
START #2
Thank you Anthony, Linda and Matthew for your replys.
Ok I got it out of my mind that there is actual CNS damage or fatigue that takes anytime to recover from. I’ll let that misinformation die. So why do we feel more beat with high intensity, low rep workouts that accomplish less work or volume then the higher rep less weight? I can accept the psychological component of resting your mind…Linda suggests that OLs overcome or are not affected by that psychological component, I’m not so sure that is correct because while they may lift more often they are training for speed and form. Even when they do lift maximally, the overhead lift is a lift that is initiated by the same muscle groups that squat and deadlift, yet they are not handling near as much weight as they could squat or deadlift. Is that a fair statement? So when one lifts maximally in such a way that the lift is slow…(which precludes an olympic lift) they are pretty well whole body fatigued that is different then muscle fatigue from higher reps even though the later may very well have accomplished more work…So is this a chemical/endocrine fatigue? I just find it hard to accept that its psychological only.
Thanks for your input.
Hal Lloyd
Nome Alaska
Linda Schaefer <thephantom198@i…> wrote:
Believe it or not, I Agree that CNS “overload” is well, “horse hockey” personally. Below is a bit of a look at the pre-meet PL sort of set - both physical and mental - topic expansion as it were, as some things about this have made me wonder recently!
The famous CNS overload is the reason often given by those who believe you should not deadlift as a powerlifter every week. (personally I think it should be used much more as a reason to not SQUAT every week, that’s the lift that frankly makes MY CNS rebel as well as my stupid KNEE…)
My CNS has not failed me despite this clearly heretical practice…
What I take time off before a PL comp for is REST of muscles and mind. The training that you use in peaking out is usually the lowest reps, highest weights, most equipped, and really the most challenging for most people - and you need oh, a few days off before you compete to rest your muscles - and prepare your MIND. Oh and if you’re making weight class, lifting usually keeps on a bit of weight you need to lose - so ending your program 5-7 days from the meet helps there as well. Weight stays on me more when I’m still lifting.
The irony about the peaking out of usually the last 3 weeks before a meet is you are doing a LOT fewer reps, lower weight volume totals, but usually feel a bit wiped out physically by the end. So you’re doing less work overall than earlier in a program, but feel more tired. Part of it can be the challenge of handling larger weights than you ever have - that again is mental prep for the platform.
I have found that taking a minimum of 4 days off completely from the gym before a meet, but no more than 7, usually gives me a feeling of the weights being LIGHT in the warmup room. It restores my eagerness as well. The snap in my erectors seems far better if I get 5 days or more off. But more than 7 days off and I start climbing walls lol. There is such a thing as TOO much rest!
I wonder though what others do to combat the let down that ensues post meet for many? Sometimes the hill you climb feels so extreme - and then there’s a feeling of “is that all there is” when you finish your meet and return home with your trophies. I’ve found the only way to try to combat this personally is to start looking forward to the next meet - think about what went right, and what could improve - and start writing my next training program within a day or two after the meet.
I guess it really depends on what part of CNS gets overloaded. I really think there is some argument for mental “battle” style fatigue in a long program toward a major meet - and time off of a few days at least. But I never have bought into the idea that my nerves were overloaded at a more basic level. OL people lift as often as 2 or 3 sessions of lifting a day. They require a lot of neural response? Yet there doesn’t seem to be this theory hanging about there?
If CNS overload was a reality, I would also expect lifters experiencing true 1 rep maxes to lock up due to nerve failure on the platform…?
Just some thoughts on CNS overload, and the PL peaking and its consequences - why we rest before a meet.
But I’ve also heard tales of lifters who take NO time off before a meet - some stories of certain lifters from other countries seen squatting heavy, all 5 days prior to a major meet? as a GROUP. Surely if CNS overload were a fact, would they not be subject to this on the platform? One would hate to think a certain country’s lifters were not well, getting sufficient WORK on the platform?
And then there’s a few people I’ve seen do an unequipped/equipped meet - 2 days, full PL competitions, back to back! They made what appeared to be max efforts, two days sequentially. Should they not be subjected to CNS overload?
Highlands games or strongman competitors? who make what appear to be CNS challenging competitions over several days sequentially? should we not see a breakdown?
And above all, what then are the TRUE symptoms of this CNS overload. Are the measurable, what are the long term consequences, has it truly been observed in a way similar to one’s muscles tearing or mind overtraining?
The Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
It was written:
I was explaining to a nurse at work that I was taking the last week off prior to a powerlifting competition to let my “CNS” central nervous system to recover maximally. She thought that was horse hockey. She could understand muscle fatigue and tissue repair, but nerve tissue?? She could accept endocrine/hormone depletion, but not anything that would take longer then over night to recover from. Well it didn’t help that I was unable myself to explain the actual process of nerve/endrocrine fatigue, it’s recovery and repair. It seems intuitive and I’ve always accepted it.
Can someone explain in a nut shell or offer references with greater detail the process of nerveous system fatigue and recovery?
Hal Lloyd
Nome AK
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