Christmas Eating Strategies

Nutrition
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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Many bodybuilders include at least “cheat meals” into their weekly program if for no other reason to maintain some level of sanity for 3-4months while they diet down. Some choose to avoid this and not do it. It seems to work for some either way. If you didn’t know this, now you do. Much of it is based on YOUR INDIVIDUAL METABOLISM. Obviously someone with a much faster metabolism can get away with more than someone who gains body fat easily.
[/quote]

You’re going off topic now, X. I don’t think anyone will argue that different things work for different people.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
To make a claim that it doesn’t help you at all is foolish.
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look back,I didn’t say that a cheat day won’t help anyone. I just said that if your entire nutritional plan was spot on (which would make this a hypothetical situation) a cheat day could do nothing good for you.
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If the person doing so is making more progress than you, exactly how is it wrong?[/quote]

This isn’t about comparing one person to another. When did this come up? Read what I said above - if you’re making progress by cheating, then you’ve got a bad plan to begin with.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
RagingBull wrote:

No assumption was made. If you need to cheat to get results then you’re not doing the right thing to begin with.

This is one really dumb statement. If someone is getting results…they are doing the right thing.[/quote]

If you’re too dim to understand the above statement, I’ll break it down for you.

If cheating helps you achieve your goal, then cheating was doing the right thing but YOUR OVERALL PLAN IS FUCKED!

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[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
RagingBull wrote:
How would a cheat day be a bad thing? Again, if a cheat day gets you closer to your goals then your plan is ill thought out to begin with.

Please post some pics. I’m curious to see what goals what will reach by worrying about one meal out of the year.

[/quote]

If I choose to post pics it won’t be done just to allow you to ridicule me no matter how I look.

I’m out for the day. Happy holidays everyone.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Fair enough post. But are you talking about strategies for good eating general over the course of the holiday weeks or the one day? If it’s the latter, why do you feel like you can’t enjoy whatever you want one day a year? That doesn’t make sense to me EVEN if you were a high-level competitive bodybuilder [barring a January competition]

I’m talking about over the course of the holiday weeks. Although there are some arguments to support it, I am not talking about and am personally not going to take it to the extreme. Seems a lot of people are over reacting.

[/quote]

Given that you are speaking over the course of weeks, I would say what I said before. Whatever you want on the day of that actual holiday. In between each holiday, diet should be geared towards goals and little different than it is the rest of the year,

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
Professor X wrote:

You can simply do your best to give it what it needs and work hard for any results. How would a cheat day be a bad thing? If you were dieting for a contest, then yes, you may want to be that strict with your diet. Otherwise, you come across as being overly restrictive which is usually an act followed by those making LESS overall progress than someone who simply tries to overshoot calories within moderation.

X, you don’t seem to understand that this thread was started with a mindset other than traditional bulking. Open your mind a little, see things from a different point of view.

How would a cheat day be a bad thing? Again, if a cheat day gets you closer to your goals then your plan is ill thought out to begin with.

Some of us would actually like to go one better than the “feed it everything and everything and hope for good results” plan.[/quote]

What is “one better” than actually getting results? You sound like those complaining because some huge bodybuilder doesn’t use perfect form. Well, gee, if they got that damn big by lifting like that and haven’t had any injuries, it must not be wrong for them. The same applies here. No one really cares if my concept of a diet plan is different than yours. If mine produces the results I am after…and those results pass yours up, how is it wrong? What exactly are you basing “the perfect diet” on? Is there even such a thing?

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:

This isn’t about comparing one person to another. When did this come up? Read what I said above - if you’re making progress by cheating, then you’ve got a bad plan to begin with.

[/quote]

No, if you are making progress, you are doing the right plan. Why does your concept of “cheating” have to apply to anyone else? What foods are specifically off limits that you think no one should eat outside of shit like cookies and cake?

It is all about results, not some amorphic concept of perfection in your eating plan.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
if you’re making progress by cheating, then you’ve got a bad plan to begin with.

[/quote]

That’s not true at all. So-called ‘cheats’ are really just planned meals or days where you eat things you normally don’t. And they have a place in plans for people of all levels of development-from beginners to the very advanced.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
This isn’t about comparing one person to another. When did this come up? Read what I said above - if you’re making progress by cheating, then you’ve got a bad plan to begin with.
[/quote]

Every bodybuilder I know has incorporated a cheat day where they pigged out to some degree. Some even in the pre-contest period.

Even Berardi prescribes one every 14 days in the “Get Shredded Diet”. He called it a re-feed day. It did have paramteres though, ie how many calories you could eat and etc.

I’m currently on that plan (great progress by the way) and the re-feed day gives me not only a psychological boost, but also more energy for the following days training.

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‘Cheats’ can be part of the plan.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
overtraining—brilliant analysis
And it isn’t suppose to rev your metabolism for a month. That would be why cycling calories or carbs is done every few days. Like 3 days of low carbs and then a spike. Or a cheat day every WEEK.

There’s a big difference between calorie/carb cycling and pigging out on Christmas day.

One is a planned, controlled increase in macronutrients, one is a random ingestion of food for temporary pleasure.

Cheat day every week? If you’ve got a specific body composition goal than this is ridiculous. Why do you think they’re called “Cheat” days? If they were a positive part of your nutritional plan then they would already be in there and you wouldn’t be cheating![/quote]

You should perhaps look at Joel Marion’s Cheater’s Diet. It incorporates a cheat day once a week and has gotten great results for many. In this and many other plans they ARE a positive part of the nutritional plan.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
Professor X wrote:
RagingBull wrote:

No assumption was made. If you need to cheat to get results then you’re not doing the right thing to begin with.

This is one really dumb statement. If someone is getting results…they are doing the right thing.

If you’re too dim to understand the above statement, I’ll break it down for you.

If cheating helps you achieve your goal, then cheating was doing the right thing but YOUR OVERALL PLAN IS FUCKED!

[/quote]

Are you being serious? I’m the dim one here? If my plan, whatever that plan may be, is consistent and produces the results I am after…how can it possibly be “fucked”? It is doing just what I want it to do. Your opinion of those specific foods means nothing if it is working for me. Your plan can only be fucked…if you aren’t making very much progress.

My guess is, those who think like you do make less overall progress because you try to overanalyze biology without understanding the variables. That is why a concept of “everything in moderation” often makes more sense than some overly dramatic and analytical approach to every ounce of food that enters your mouth. You can’t plan exactly what your body will do with what you do to it.

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[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
RagingBull wrote:
This isn’t about comparing one person to another. When did this come up? Read what I said above - if you’re making progress by cheating, then you’ve got a bad plan to begin with.

Every bodybuilder I know has incorporated a cheat day where they pigged out to some degree. Some even in the pre-contest period.

Even Berardi prescribes one every 14 days in the “Get Shredded Diet”. He called it a re-feed day. It did have paramteres though, ie how many calories you could eat and etc.

I’m currently on that plan (great progress by the way) and the re-feed day gives me not only a psychological boost, but also more energy for the following days training.
[/quote]

…and one would have to be one extreme newbie to not understand how important that psychological factor is when it comes to results.

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My Christmas Eating schedule? Keep training and even add more volume, eat like a pig, gain some muscle and maybe a bit of fat, and worry about the fat AFTER the holidays are over.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
RagingBull wrote:
How would a cheat day be a bad thing? Again, if a cheat day gets you closer to your goals then your plan is ill thought out to begin with.

Please post some pics. I’m curious to see what goals what will reach by worrying about one meal out of the year.

If I choose to post pics it won’t be done just to allow you to ridicule me no matter how I look.

I’m out for the day. Happy holidays everyone.[/quote]

In other words: I was right and you’ve not made any meaningful progress. Funny how a guy could know that just by reading your posts, 'eh?

(BTW, I have never mocked anyone for posting a pic. I simply guessed (rightly) that you don’t look like you lift weights.)

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and one would have to be one extreme newbie to not understand how important that psychological factor is when it comes to results.[/quote]

There are those that go overboard when it comes to counting calories and pro/cho/fat percentages when it comes to bulking, cutting and etc.

Even when my old Gym manager ran Body For Life at our gym. The members that never took the cheat day option always fell flat on their face less than a month into it. They either had one shit day and then went on a week long binge, gave up because they thought they fucked the whole thing, and the list goes on.

The ones who used the cheat/re-feed day managed to finish the 12 weeks and kept going with it for a longer period.

Body for Life is the most basic exercise and nutrition program, but there is a lesson to be learned in the above mentioned example. The cheat day is needed at least mentally.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:

why would you need to “peg” them back? You think eating a total of 2000 cals less over the next few days is really going to make a difference? You’ll just end up under-eating for a few days. That’s pretty stupid.

If you haven’t experienced sticking to a detailed plan, that’s OK, but read my post again and realise that I’m talking about that case.

eengrms76 wrote:

Haha. Funny. I actually only go to the gym 3 days week and rest 4 with only minor activity. Have been for almost a decade. I’m far from overtrained. Regardless- that’s a fairly retarded assumption to make.

No assumption was made. If you need to cheat to get results then you’re not doing the right thing to begin with.[/quote]

Couldn’t you also argue that if one day throws off a plan in its entirety then you are not doing the right thing to begin with? From my time lurking on the site I haven’t seen a non-contest plan of anything which was so strict that the slightest deviation would unwind all progress instantly.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
If you haven’t experienced sticking to a detailed plan, that’s OK, but read my post again and realise that I’m talking about that case.

No assumption was made. If you need to cheat to get results then you’re not doing the right thing to begin with.[/quote]

Uggh. All of your posts are heavy in condescension. Like you are some sort of expert. You haven’t given us any information on you for us to base any expertise on. You want to lecture all of us lost souls that apparently “can’t follow a plan”, “don’t have a clue”, and “need to cheat to get results.”

Almost every single one of your posts sounds like a blurb out of Men’s Health. And I can assure you from now on most of us will be unable to take a single word you say seriously. Just be aware that every one you are arguing against likely has far more experience than you and has achieved far more in the way of results. This is painfully obvious based on your current knowledge.

I mean how obvious does it have to be when everyone is arguing against you? Regardless of what side I’m on- when you have half a dozen people saying essentially the same thing and one oddball doing their best to say the exact opposite- you have to wonder. Don’t you? This isn’t like the whole “the world isn’t flat” debate. You are arguing [i]against[/i] science.

We all, even you, agree that out and out cheating or eating to a large excess is a bad thing. What we disagree on is how to quantify that and what foods would be attached to that. You think an extra 2000 calories is too much. Hell I would bet you some of us here eat 2000 cal a day more than you do normally.

How many calories a day do you eat? Seriously. What is your macro breakdown? If we want to continue this discussion it would be good to know where you stand. Saying “too much” isn’t good enough.

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This is starting to go around in circles, so I’ll add just the one final post here:

To those who rightly point out that there are a lot of successful plans out there which incorporate planned refeeding for both phychological and physiological purposes:

You’re absolutely right. These refeeding days help because they’re part of the plan. These days, in my opinion, are not cheat days. What the topic was originally posted for was to get some intelligent opinions on what to do when your schedule is like ManOWar’s during the holiday period. Nobody can honestly claim all those as cheat days and expect his progress not to at least slow down.

All these events that don’t normally come up when you’re expected to eat and drink? These are the unjustifiable cheat days, not the planned ones as in Berardi’s diet.

To those who would rather insult me than engage in a mature debate, even though no argument was sought:

Grow up. You know absolutely, positively NOTHING about me, your random divinations based on a few of my posts make you sound petty, immature and arrogant.

In the end, I don’t care whatsoever if you agree or disagree with me. I believe I can see where you’re coming from, I can see how your arguments may appear from a different point of view. I don’t believe you have afforded me the courtesy of even attempting to see where I may have been coming from, and since this is the case I won’t be spending any more of my time on the subject.

Take your final shots if you feel you need to - This matter is closed.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
This is starting to go around in circles, so I’ll add just the one final post here:

To those who rightly point out that there are a lot of successful plans out there which incorporate planned refeeding for both phychological and physiological purposes:

You’re absolutely right. These refeeding days help because they’re part of the plan. These days, in my opinion, are not cheat days. What the topic was originally posted for was to get some intelligent opinions on what to do when your schedule is like ManOWar’s during the holiday period. Nobody can honestly claim all those as cheat days and expect his progress not to at least slow down.

All these events that don’t normally come up when you’re expected to eat and drink? These are the unjustifiable cheat days, not the planned ones as in Berardi’s diet.

To those who would rather insult me than engage in a mature debate, even though no argument was sought:

Grow up. You know absolutely, positively NOTHING about me, your random divinations based on a few of my posts make you sound petty, immature and arrogant.

In the end, I don’t care whatsoever if you agree or disagree with me. I believe I can see where you’re coming from, I can see how your arguments may appear from a different point of view. I don’t believe you have afforded me the courtesy of even attempting to see where I may have been coming from, and since this is the case I won’t be spending any more of my time on the subject.

Take your final shots if you feel you need to - This matter is closed.[/quote]

Let me make this clear…

You could simply have considered “over-eating” on the holiday as your planned cheat day and this whole nomenclature argument could have been avoided.

But, by the way you chose to phrase your argument, you came off as someone lacking knowlege and experience on the very subject you broached.

And who really cares if your progress “slows down” for a small period of time over the holidays? I don’t know how old you are, but you lack life–real life experience if you believe your program or routine will always fit neatly into some scripted plan. Life happens friend. Progress slows. Enjoy the ride.

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[quote]RagingBull wrote:
. I don’t believe you have afforded me the courtesy of even attempting to see where I may have been coming from, [/quote]

Cos you’re a psycho! :smiley:

Chill man. Obviously you are very dedicated to your body. I think most of the ‘normals’ are just saying “mate, it’s 1 day, why stress?”.

If it’s something you feel strongly about however, I say more power to ya!