Cheetin' Chinese

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]pat wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Everybody cheats” is very lame. You’re missing not one, but several points entirely.

Most countries have juiced athletes, that is given.

But we’re talking about grown ups who decided themselves that they wanna take these “supps”.
Little children, who are practically deported by the thousands (sometimes their parents pay a fortune themselves, sometimes the education is entirely state sponsored) away from home, to grow up entirely on discipline under quite primitive circumstances, is a different thing.

90% won’t make it to the elite. They effectively missed out a large portion of their childhood, replacing it with abuse. If they’re lucky they won’t have tou much permanent damage from barbaric training regiment, mistreatment, various drugs and psychological trauma.

The elite goes an even longer and stonier way. Woe to these children, as they get ZERO out of it (again compared to other juicing athletes), they just pay in sweat and tears- their purpose is to make China feel like it has balls again, not to help them get rich or famous.

Real chinese sport stars who can bask in their fame and get paid for consumer advertising are a novum and but a handful. Of course, for little ten year olds this is entirely unrealistic.

And if you haven’t noticed: China is the No.1 juicer. The reports and investigations are sometimes nearly to ridiculous to be true. Their athletes get improved systematically jut like in former USSR, which force fed it’s gym children especially throughout the eighties. Rember the tiny eastern gymnasts?

I fondly remember how the female swimming (who in China, of course, get masculine stacks compared to the growth inhibiting drugs of the little girls) team of the GDR had such deep voices, one reporter bothered to ask about the trainer who snapped: “so what, they’re not here to sing!”

After the collapse of the red empire, so many barbaric facts were uncovered (for example, trainers ordered to impregnate their protege -cause a woman has certain chemical advantagesduring her first two months; the whole thing was of course followed by a mandatory abortion) which are now being replicated in the east.

Thousands of children are abused to make a regime look good.

Big difference.

Good Post![/quote]

Exactly. This isn’t even about cheating, so much. And, definitely is about America losing. After all, I hadn’t noticed concern over this being limited to American citizens. By the way, was it a Chinese newspaper that originally pointed all this out?

This is about the misuse and abuse of children. Did you guys sticks up for Kathy Lee Griffin, too?

102

[quote]Sloth wrote:
This is about the misuse and abuse of children. Did you guys sticks up for Kathy Lee Griffin, too?[/quote]

Well, in her defense she is just an annoying personality used to sell a line of discount clothing.

Besides, there is nothing inherently wrong with child labor. I spent every summer day of my youth at my grand-parents farm not getting paid. I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

I also spent every weekend, like many children, performing chores. Had my parents let me work for pay in stead of raking leaves, etc., I would have jumped on it.

In the US we like to believe that education is every child’s right and that working at a young age is evil. This is a warm fluffy belief that has no merit. Sure it would be nice to give every child an education but it just doesn’t work. All you need to do is look at what public education has become. Not every child is cut out for school and should not be there wasting tax payer money.

Children are energetic, enthusiastic, and generally willing to learn anything they are interested in. There is more to life than traditional education. Plus, we’re too soft on children and we’re turning them into a bunch of pussies.

103

[quote]lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:

Silly restrictions defeat the purpose of the Olympics just the same. If anything, this will help the idiots in the Committee to see the error of their ways.

Age discrimination is stupid. But that’s probably just me…

You tell em Lix! It aint like little kids will be driven till their bodies break, only to be discarded like a used condom or something. After all, governments in countries like China have their citizens best interests as their highest priority!

And I admire the consistency in your approach to the welfare of children, especially young girls.

Well-done, indeed.

When does personal responsibility come into play? And who are you to draw arbitrary age limits?

[/quote]

It doesn’t, in a communist country like China. Or didn’t you get the memo? That’s not an argument you should be willing to commit to so easily concerning authoritarian countries. I might (might) buy into it for democratic free-market ones. There was a Chinese women’s gymnast (forget the name, maybe I could run back through the DVR’ed broadcasts and find it) that the announcers had explained how her success at gymnastics had moved the Chinese gov’t to actually give her family a small house to live in.

I don’t care what kind of bodily pain you’re in, when your gov’t puts that kind of pressure on you to continue competing, regardless of pain, you’re going to have to do it. They gave your family the house, they can take it away.

That is NOT healthy or right for kids to have to deal with that kind of pressure coming down on them from their gov’t. Not to mention everything that Schwarz put down in his post. That’s downright scary. I hadn’t heard of the forced abortion/impregnation.

Doesn’t matter though, they’re there and no one is doing anything. Makes me sick, but lixy is right–gov’ts issue their ID cards. As of now, I’m incensed with the obviously terrible (biased?) judging, which was from a variety of countries.

104

[quote]lixy wrote:

I’m commenting on a thread where Americans are using insults and racial slur to downplay the athletic performance of a Chinese girl.
[/quote]

You know, in the interests of intellectual honesty, there was only 1 or 2 Americans doing that. Everyone else was discussing in relative civility. So lets not grandly generalize “Americans” here, as you seem to be fond of doing in many of your posts in this forum. Can we return to the topic now, and pretend that we can discuss it without racial slurs? If we can pretend that, you can pretend to not defend them or comment on the non-existent slurs by way of…whatever it is you’re doing.

105

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Sloth wrote:
This is about the misuse and abuse of children. Did you guys sticks up for Kathy Lee Griffin, too?

Well, in her defense she is just an annoying personality used to sell a line of discount clothing.

Besides, there is nothing inherently wrong with child labor. I spent every summer day of my youth at my grand-parents farm not getting paid. I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

I also spent every weekend, like many children, performing chores. Had my parents let me work for pay in stead of raking leaves, etc., I would have jumped on it.

In the US we like to believe that education is every child’s right and that working at a young age is evil. This is a warm fluffy belief that has no merit. Sure it would be nice to give every child an education but it just doesn’t work. All you need to do is look at what public education has become. Not every child is cut out for school and should not be there wasting tax payer money.

Children are energetic, enthusiastic, and generally willing to learn anything they are interested in. There is more to life than traditional education. Plus, we’re too soft on children and we’re turning them into a bunch of pussies. [/quote]

Digging post holes for your parents doesn’t even begin to compare with the conditions many of these children are put through. Good god, I started doing chores too, since as early as I can remember. But, this is a whole 'nother level.

106

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Sloth wrote:
This is about the misuse and abuse of children. Did you guys sticks up for Kathy Lee Griffin, too?

Well, in her defense she is just an annoying personality used to sell a line of discount clothing.

Besides, there is nothing inherently wrong with child labor. I spent every summer day of my youth at my grand-parents farm not getting paid. I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

I also spent every weekend, like many children, performing chores. Had my parents let me work for pay in stead of raking leaves, etc., I would have jumped on it.

In the US we like to believe that education is every child’s right and that working at a young age is evil. This is a warm fluffy belief that has no merit. Sure it would be nice to give every child an education but it just doesn’t work. All you need to do is look at what public education has become. Not every child is cut out for school and should not be there wasting tax payer money.

Children are energetic, enthusiastic, and generally willing to learn anything they are interested in. There is more to life than traditional education. Plus, we’re too soft on children and we’re turning them into a bunch of pussies. [/quote]

Uh, what?

107

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
lixy wrote:

I’m commenting on a thread where Americans are using insults and racial slur to downplay the athletic performance of a Chinese girl.

You know, in the interests of intellectual honesty, there was only 1 or 2 Americans doing that. Everyone else was discussing in relative civility. So lets not grandly generalize “Americans” here, as you seem to be fond of doing in many of your posts in this forum. Can we return to the topic now, and pretend that we can discuss it without racial slurs? If we can pretend that, you can pretend to not defend them or comment on the non-existent slurs by way of…whatever it is you’re doing.[/quote]

You’re talking to someone who thinks rape is the victims fault…No I haven’t gotten over that one yet.

108

[quote]pat wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
lixy wrote:

I’m commenting on a thread where Americans are using insults and racial slur to downplay the athletic performance of a Chinese girl.

You know, in the interests of intellectual honesty, there was only 1 or 2 Americans doing that. Everyone else was discussing in relative civility. So lets not grandly generalize “Americans” here, as you seem to be fond of doing in many of your posts in this forum. Can we return to the topic now, and pretend that we can discuss it without racial slurs? If we can pretend that, you can pretend to not defend them or comment on the non-existent slurs by way of…whatever it is you’re doing.

You’re talking to someone who thinks rape is the victims fault…No I haven’t gotten over that one yet.[/quote]

What on Earth are you talking about?

109

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.[/quote]

Scarred you for life, too.

Even now, when you post, you’re generally digging yourself into a hole.

110

[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

Scarred you for life, too.

Even now, when you post, you’re generally digging yourself into a hole.
[/quote]

Ouch!

111

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Digging post holes for your parents doesn’t even begin to compare with the conditions many of these children are put through. Good god, I started doing chores too, since as early as I can remember. But, this is a whole 'nother level.[/quote]

What is the difference between being forced to compete in sport by the State and being forced to be educated by the State?

All children are forced to do things they don’t want to do. Why is one condition better or worse?

Just to be clear, I think it should always be the child’s parent or guardian who gets to decide what is in the child’s best interest – so why is forced education ok and forced sport not?

112

[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

Scarred you for life, too.

Even now, when you post, you’re generally digging yourself into a hole.
[/quote]

The point was that all children go through it. Who are we to raise other people’s children – including telling them they must go to school or whatever?

113

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

Scarred you for life, too.

Even now, when you post, you’re generally digging yourself into a hole.

The point was that all children go through it. Who are we to raise other people’s children – including telling them they must go to school or whatever?[/quote]

Swiiing and a miss!

All children are abused taken from their homes forced to perform for the state? Really?

114

[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

Scarred you for life, too.

Even now, when you post, you’re generally digging yourself into a hole.
[/quote]

.

115

[quote]pat wrote:
Swiiing and a miss!

All children are abused taken from their homes forced to perform for the state? Really? [/quote]

You lot did assume the particular gymnast was “abused” and “taken from [her] home”. Maybe you could explain to us how you can be so sure that it wasn’t her choice (and that of her close circle) to try and be the best.

116

[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I could have been learning the finer art of fishing or rock throwing but instead learned how to dig post holes.

Scarred you for life, too.

Even now, when you post, you’re generally digging yourself into a hole.
[/quote]

Ba-zing!!

117

It is always comforting to know that no child in America has ever been groomed for sport. Parents never force their children to particapate in sports.

China is not America. The cultures of these two countries are like night and day. The Chinese are not doing anything different than their fore fathers.

It is easy for Americians to pass judgement on other counties. America has zero history when compared to a country like China. Individuals find it difficult to except change. I would therefore assume it would far more difficult for a country to change.

Even America in all it’s youth. Has a difficult time keeping their nose out of other countries business. A trait they have acquire in their youth, aren’t they going to be fun when they’re older.

China does what China does because it’s China and that’s what the Chinese do. It’s what they have been doing for ever!

It is as likely that America will mind their own business as it is that China will do what other want them to.

118

[quote]streamline wrote:
It is always comforting to know that no child in America has ever been groomed for sport. Parents never force their children to particapate in sports.

China is not America. The cultures of these two countries is like night and day. The Chinese are not doing anything different than their fore fathers.

It is easy for Americians to pass judgement on other counties. America has zero history when compared to a country like China. Individuals find it difficult to except change. I would therefore assume it would far more difficult for a country to change.

Even America in all it’s youth. Has a difficult time keeping their nose out of other countries business. A trait they have acquire in their youth, aren’t they going to be fun when they’re older.

China does what China does because it’s China and that’s what the Chinese do. It’s what they have been doing for ever!

It is as likely that America will mind their own business as it is that China will do what other want them to.[/quote]

Maybe it’s in our culture to worry about what China does to children. Now, according to your logic, retract your post and stop worrying about who we’re worrying about.

120

[quote]pat wrote:
All children are abused taken from their homes forced to perform for the state? Really? [/quote]

I never said it was ok to take children from their home and abuse them. You are making a strawman argument. I am asking for a distinction between two seemingly different (but not) actions.

And I highly doubt these girls are bing abused. Why would you abuse someone you are taking your time to train and turn into a champion? That seems really illogical to me and since you cannot provide proof of abuse it is a dead argument.

In the US a child can be taken for whatever “good reason” the state comes up with.

For once I would like an answer. What is the difference between being forced to be educated (for which a child can be removed from a home if the parents do not follow the state’s orders) and being forced into athletic competition? And mind you we are not talking about child abuse.

If an answer cannot be provided then there mustn’t be one and I am in fact correct.