Cheetin' Chinese

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]lixy wrote:

TB, does every other thread have to be about me, rather than my arguments?[/quote]

My post in this thread was thusly:

[i]Exactly - the age restrictions are not about eliminating advantages, but rather protecting young kids from the grueling pressure to compete as early as possible due to those advantages. Someone somewhere actually thinks it a good idea to disincentivize the pressure that cutthroat athletics would put on kids who should be, well, being kids.

Lixy the self-professed Humanist embarrasses himself yet again.
[/i]

Substance, and then pointing out that your inconsistency was damning.

Then, of course, Lifticus came bumbling to your rescue, and made it about you.

82

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

I offer you the invitation to provide one example of lixy showing “moral bankruptcy” and intellectual dishonesty as well.

Look no further than this thread.

Lixy claims to worship at the altar of Humanism, and constantly rails against corporations, governments, foreign policies, etc. that humiliate and oppress people.

And yet, his Humanism suddenly stops short of including protection of children from totalitarian governments hell-bent on grinding them into powder to try and train them from an early age to further the the totalitarian’s nationalist ambitions in world sport.

Short answer: Lixy will throw tantrums about oppression by “corporations”, but quietly whistles past and gives succor to brutal totalitarian regimes. Any form of Humanism that can’t demand some protection for children against a Politburo is categorically and suspect, and is, wait for it, morally bankrupt.

Further, the fact that Lixy puts on a facade of caring about the “oppressed” while carving out this little exception for communist China is, wait for it, intellectually dishonest, because he has shown he is a fraud.

Try something other than your painfully banal cut-and-paste job from LewRockwell.com and try to add something of value. You haven’t produced an original thought in months.

That he has been “owned” does not necessarily include the above indictments.

No, but it speaks to your claim that he “stands up” - and, he sure does, only to get smacked down in embarrassing fashion.

Your posts are generally filled with negativity directed at the poster and not directed at the context of what is said.

Read above - my post to Lixy addressed exactly what Lixy was talking about.

You are an intellectual weakling…

Sure thing, Lifticus. Tell me, do you aspire to anything more than being a mere cipher while the adults talk around here?[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to point out what should be obvious. You have the patience and the wit I lack when dealing with these people.

84

[quote]lixy wrote:
TB, does every other thread have to be about me, rather than my arguments?[/quote]

You tried to make the Gyllenhal Bulking Up thread about George Bush’s foreign policy. You seem to want to make every other thread about you with posts like that.

85

[quote]pookie wrote:
pat wrote:

I see you’re from the Humpty Dumpty school of semantics.

Yeah, but I got held back a year. So I haven’t graduated yet.

You failed to meet eggspectations?
[/quote]

LOL!
You know of course I am just being deliberately inflammatory…Those poor girls stolen from their homes at 3 to be raised by the government for the sole purpose of making the government look good.
I wonder what happens to them when they become to old to be of use. I imagine either executed or just shoved back into normal society with out any preparation for it.

86

[quote]lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:

Silly restrictions defeat the purpose of the Olympics just the same. If anything, this will help the idiots in the Committee to see the error of their ways.

Age discrimination is stupid. But that’s probably just me…

You tell em Lix! It aint like little kids will be driven till their bodies break, only to be discarded like a used condom or something. After all, governments in countries like China have their citizens best interests as their highest priority!

And I admire the consistency in your approach to the welfare of children, especially young girls.

Well-done, indeed.

When does personal responsibility come into play? And who are you to draw arbitrary age limits?

I would love for all kids to be adequately fed, clothed, schooled and tucked in at night. But the reality is quite different and the age you deem appropriate for a child to learn a trade is only adapted to your perception of your own society. Who are you rob a person (yes, children are people too!) of the prospect of fame, recognition and livelihood knowing that the alternative for some of them is hunger and misery. The decision is that of the kids’ family and community (as in communism, not Bolshevism, Maoism or any of the other bullying centralized hacks).

Your arbitrary No Child Labor line of thinking is the kind of crap that’s fueling delinquency, teenage prostitution and other societal issues. Kids that can’t get jobs legally often turn to the black market where they are much worse off at the end of the day.

It’s the sort of retarded solutions one dishes out when they don’t take the time to understand the problem.

“OMG1!!! Won’t anybody think of the Children?!”[/quote]

Well, this is the sense of justice you get from somebody that thinks rape is the victims fault. This should surprise no one.

87

[quote]pat wrote:
You know of course I am just being deliberately inflammatory…[/quote]

Yeah, I know because I know you from previous discussions where - although we disagreed on nearly every point - we managed to stay civil towards one another and to attack arguments and reasonings, not the person making them.

Isn’t that assuming a lot of facts not in evidence? If we don’t even know the actual age of the girls, how can we even pretend to know what their life has been like?

In Western nations, a lot of champion athletes got where there are because they were pushed hard by their parents when they were young. The best of the best generally also have talent and personal desire to excel; but for every top-tier competitor, there are a lot more who might be where there are because of external pressures.

Executed? I’d really doubt that.

A lot of “old” Western Olympic athletes go back into normal society with little preparation for it…

Maybe they do like a lot of elite athletes do when they get to be past their primes and get into the coaching/refereeing/teaching/etc. side of it. Who better to coach the next generation of champions than someone who has been there and can not only teach the various nuances of each technique but also help with the mental preparation required to cope with the enormous pressures of competing on the international stage.

88

[quote]pookie wrote:
pat wrote:
Those poor girls stolen from their homes at 3 to be raised by the government for the sole purpose of making the government look good.

Isn’t that assuming a lot of facts not in evidence? [/quote]

They beat the Americans.

That’s all the evidence he needs.

89

[quote]lixy wrote:

They beat the Americans.

That’s all the evidence he needs.[/quote]

Well, the Americans got beat in plenty of other sports too, but a thread about it wasn’t started each time.

I think what’s rubbing people the wrong way here is the probable cheating done by China. I should probably specify: the one-sided cheating done by China. In other sports (not all, but many), where everyone cheats, the playing field is level enough that people can accept that victory went to the best athlete even with the “enhancements.”

Anyway, I don’t mind the jingoism as much as the useless demeaning of the girls who have no say whatsoever in finding themselves in this situation. I’m sure that, as athletes, they’d prefer to win (or lose) fair and square anyway. They might be too young to fully appreciate it now, but I’m sure that in the future, they’ll be unhappy about the lingering doubt as to whether they could’ve won those medals without a stacked deck.

90

[quote]lixy wrote:
pookie wrote:
pat wrote:
Those poor girls stolen from their homes at 3 to be raised by the government for the sole purpose of making the government look good.

Isn’t that assuming a lot of facts not in evidence?

They beat the Americans.

That’s all the evidence he needs.[/quote]

That’s to be fair…Even Al Jazeera envy’s the anti-Americanism of the NY Times so it’s not like the NY Times has a pro American bias.

91

[quote]pookie wrote:
pat wrote:
You know of course I am just being deliberately inflammatory…

Yeah, I know because I know you from previous discussions where - although we disagreed on nearly every point - we managed to stay civil towards one another and to attack arguments and reasonings, not the person making them.

Those poor girls stolen from their homes at 3 to be raised by the government for the sole purpose of making the government look good.

Isn’t that assuming a lot of facts not in evidence? If we don’t even know the actual age of the girls, how can we even pretend to know what their life has been like?

In Western nations, a lot of champion athletes got where there are because they were pushed hard by their parents when they were young. The best of the best generally also have talent and personal desire to excel; but for every top-tier competitor, there are a lot more who might be where there are because of external pressures.
[/quote]

The announcers were making reference to that fact as they discuss one of the gymnasts who called her parents begging to come home and they refused to take her. They were discussing this during the group competition…How true that is, I am not sure but I wouldn’t be surprised. The Soviets were famous for doing the same thing with their gymnasts and ice skaters, so it’s not a giant leap to think the Chinese would do the same thing. Not with their record of cruelty, mandatory abortions and disgarding of female children.

I hate it when parents do that to their kids, but at least it’s parents doing it and not the government.

It’s tough to say what goes on there…They have a ridiculously terrible human rights record. So once a person is no longer useful who knows? The problem with gymnastics is that 20 is like being 65 in that sport. So the shelf life of a gymnast is short, most of the time.

92

of the 77 applications to stage protests during the Olympic games, 74 applications were “withdrawn”, two were “suspended” and one was “vetoed”.

Throwing in one of my favorite pictures for a good laugh.

93

It’s not cheating unless you get caught. So what is worse, using under aged or using drugs. Every FUCKING country cheats, period!

94

“Everybody cheats” is very lame. You’re missing not one, but several points entirely.

Most countries have juiced athletes, that is given.

But we’re talking about grown ups who decided themselves that they wanna take these “supps”.
Little children, who are practically deported by the thousands (sometimes their parents pay a fortune themselves, sometimes the education is entirely state sponsored) away from home, to grow up entirely on discipline under quite primitive circumstances, is a different thing.
90% won’t make it to the elite. They effectively missed out a large portion of their childhood, replacing it with abuse. If they’re lucky they won’t have tou much permanent damage from barbaric training regiment, mistreatment, various drugs and psychological trauma.
The elite goes an even longer and stonier way. Woe to these children, as they get ZERO out of it (again compared to other juicing athletes), they just pay in sweat and tears- their purpose is to make China feel like it has balls again, not to help them get rich or famous.
Real chinese sport stars who can bask in their fame and get paid for consumer advertising are a novum and but a handful. Of course, for little ten year olds this is entirely unrealistic.

And if you haven’t noticed: China is the No.1 juicer. The reports and investigations are sometimes nearly to ridiculous to be true. Their athletes get improved systematically jut like in former USSR, which force fed it’s gym children especially throughout the eighties. Rember the tiny eastern gymnasts?

I fondly remember how the female swimming (who in China, of course, get masculine stacks compared to the growth inhibiting drugs of the little girls) team of the GDR had such deep voices, one reporter bothered to ask about the trainer who snapped: “so what, they’re not here to sing!”

After the collapse of the red empire, so many barbaric facts were uncovered (for example, trainers ordered to impregnate their protege -cause a woman has certain chemical advantagesduring her first two months; the whole thing was of course followed by a mandatory abortion) which are now being replicated in the east.

Thousands of children are abused to make a regime look good.

Big difference.

95

[quote]streamline wrote:
It’s not cheating unless you get caught. So what is worse, using under aged or using drugs. Every FUCKING country cheats, period![/quote]

Except we caught the Chinese cheating in this case, and just like when Athletes are caught using steroids they lose their medals - so should the underage Chinese athletes at least, if not their team medals as well.

And yes, we DO know He is 14 years old, despite China’s attempt to take down all mention of it, the internet does have a memory, and Google Cache isn’t getting rid of the evidence.

http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:A5YfIIsOJjQJ:www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2008-05/23/content_6707927.htm+site:chinadaily.com.cn+"he+kexin"+14&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

She was 14 on May 15 2008. If she turned 15 the very next day, she still is not eligible.

96

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
After the collapse of the red empire, so many barbaric facts were uncovered (for example, trainers ordered to impregnate their protege -cause a woman has certain chemical advantagesduring her first two months; the whole thing was of course followed by a mandatory abortion) which are now being replicated in the east. [/quote]

Two little points:

  1. The advantage was supposedly derived from the abortion.
  2. It was a practice localized to East Germany.
97

Iraq.

You guys forgot to mention Iraq.

Aren’t kids born in China already 1 year old? I think they start the kids at 1. Maybe that explains some of the confusion.

98

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Everybody cheats” is very lame. You’re missing not one, but several points entirely.

Most countries have juiced athletes, that is given.

But we’re talking about grown ups who decided themselves that they wanna take these “supps”.
Little children, who are practically deported by the thousands (sometimes their parents pay a fortune themselves, sometimes the education is entirely state sponsored) away from home, to grow up entirely on discipline under quite primitive circumstances, is a different thing.

90% won’t make it to the elite. They effectively missed out a large portion of their childhood, replacing it with abuse. If they’re lucky they won’t have tou much permanent damage from barbaric training regiment, mistreatment, various drugs and psychological trauma.

The elite goes an even longer and stonier way. Woe to these children, as they get ZERO out of it (again compared to other juicing athletes), they just pay in sweat and tears- their purpose is to make China feel like it has balls again, not to help them get rich or famous.

Real chinese sport stars who can bask in their fame and get paid for consumer advertising are a novum and but a handful. Of course, for little ten year olds this is entirely unrealistic.

And if you haven’t noticed: China is the No.1 juicer. The reports and investigations are sometimes nearly to ridiculous to be true. Their athletes get improved systematically jut like in former USSR, which force fed it’s gym children especially throughout the eighties. Rember the tiny eastern gymnasts?

I fondly remember how the female swimming (who in China, of course, get masculine stacks compared to the growth inhibiting drugs of the little girls) team of the GDR had such deep voices, one reporter bothered to ask about the trainer who snapped: “so what, they’re not here to sing!”

After the collapse of the red empire, so many barbaric facts were uncovered (for example, trainers ordered to impregnate their protege -cause a woman has certain chemical advantagesduring her first two months; the whole thing was of course followed by a mandatory abortion) which are now being replicated in the east.

Thousands of children are abused to make a regime look good.

Big difference.[/quote]

Good Post!

99

[quote]lixy wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
After the collapse of the red empire, so many barbaric facts were uncovered (for example, trainers ordered to impregnate their protege -cause a woman has certain chemical advantagesduring her first two months; the whole thing was of course followed by a mandatory abortion) which are now being replicated in the east.

Two little points:

  1. The advantage was supposedly derived from the abortion.
  2. It was a practice localized to East Germany.[/quote]

Oh well! I guess it’s OK then…

100

[quote]lixy wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
After the collapse of the red empire, so many barbaric facts were uncovered (for example, trainers ordered to impregnate their protege -cause a woman has certain chemical advantagesduring her first two months; the whole thing was of course followed by a mandatory abortion) which are now being replicated in the east.

Two little points:

  1. The advantage was supposedly derived from the abortion.

  2. It was a practice localized to East Germany.[/quote]

  3. thanks for clarifying

  4. what China does to it’s people and ahtletes surpasses the events in the former GDR easily. If everything goes well, we’ll hear about details in twenty, thirty years if at all. So far there has been one known defection (ex swimmer, now working as a trainer in south korea) who talks openly.

GDR will look like a kindergarden compared to that.