Knowing if the defense is going to blitz or stunt is a huge advantage. It’s also incremental. A small advantage on every offensive play overcomes a lot and has to be worth at least touchdown per game.
Multiply that over a few seasons and you have a real problem. Suspend him for at least 4 games. Maybe the rest of the season.
[quote]chillain wrote:
mahwah wrote:
To echo the sentiments of some of ESPN’s talking heads:
I think Belichick should be treated as a player would for cheating (steroids), 4 games out.
I think that the Patriots are gonna come at the Chargers with everything they got on Sunday night.
The new commish’s regime has been very serious about making examples out of problem players so far, and I’m sure we’re all very interested in the punishments that will be handed out here. It’s not like NE (in particular) hasn’t been warned about this.
And I don’t think ‘getting caught cheating’ will give the Pats any extra fire at all. Not that it will matter much on Sunday night anyway: NE can’t win this game without Seymour and Samuel and Harrison and this is SD’s regular season superbowl.
[/quote]
If Norv Turner was not their coach I would give the edge to SD. With him coaching I think they are taking a step back this year.
Wow…I knew the Pats were disliked (which is funny, because about 4 years ago it seemed they were turning into ‘America’s Team’, but I guess that’s what winning and overexposure does these days), but some of these comments are ridiculous…strip them of their rings? Suspend Belichick for 4 games?
As was mentioned previously, the Pat’s were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and should be punished for it. But they’re far from the only team that steals signals.
Listen to the Barber Shop (Tikki and Ronde Barber), they said everyone does it, it’s just a ‘hush-hush’ type thing. The problem is, Mangini and Belichick had a falling out and it seems Mangini has no problem being the rat peice of sh*t I knew he was.
He was on the Pats staff for years, and supposedly this filing thing isn’t anything new…so he obviously knew what went on, condoned it while he was in NE, and blew the whistle now that he’s broken ties with the man who gave him his start.
I look at it this way: were they stealing signals? Certainly, but it’s one of the unwritten rules in football that any edge–such as stealing the defensive plays–is fine. Were they taping said signals? It sounds like they were (though we still don’t know for sure), and that is where they went over the line.
For people to say they were ‘cheating’ seems a bit much, because all of the teams have lip readers with binoculars. They simply took it the extra step and should be punished for that.
Finally, I just wanted to point out that the Broncos and Cowboys violated the salary cap restrictions during Super Bowl years, and the entire Steelers team, it seems, was on the juice back the 70’s.
I find it funny that Tomlinson can say something like �??I think the Patriots actually live by the saying, �??If you�??re not cheatin, you�??re not trying,�??�??..and yet his Pro Bowl teammate, Shawne Merriman, was on steroids just last season and he had a profound impact on their making the playoffs.
Who says other teams aren’t doing it? The Chargers won 2 more games than the pats last year and also scored more points. Just because other teams haven’t been caught yet doesn’t mean they aren’t cheating too.
So we don’t punish cheaters when the are caught because other people cheat too?
What about holding? It happens every play. Should it never be called?
Steroids? Everyone does it so let it go?
The Cowboys have a coach suspended for 5 games because he is implicated in the HGH thing.
If this doesn’t earn Belichek a suspension then it looks like the league is playing favorites.
I don’t agree with taking away their rings but the deserve much more than a slap on the wrist and the HC should get the punishment.
There will always be a taint about their recent past. They earned it by being caught cheating in such a blatant manner.
[quote]golferguy12 wrote:
Who says other teams aren’t doing it? The Chargers won 2 more games than the pats last year and also scored more points. Just because other teams haven’t been caught yet doesn’t mean they aren’t cheating too.[/quote]
Agreed completely. And while a large total of wins doesn’t mean a team is cheating, the fact that they haven’t been caught doesn’t mean they haven’t been cheating (if that makes any sense).
Another example I forgot to mention: Mike Shanahan and his great running game year after year has been lauded by the mediots for years, but they consistently gloss over the fact that Shanahan and his staff teach chop blocking, or something very near chop blocking, which can severely injure opponents.
How is that not illegal? Players, year after year, complain about the Broncos tactics, and yet they continue to employ them.
Again, that the Patriots had someone filming who wasn’t allowed on the sidelines is the infraction, not the fact that they were stealing signs (which I can’t reiterate enough is something that every single team in all of football does).
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
So we don’t punish cheaters when the are caught because other people cheat too?
What about holding? It happens every play. Should it never be called?
Steroids? Everyone does it so let it go?
The Cowboys have a coach suspended for 5 games because he is implicated in the HGH thing.
If this doesn’t earn Belichek a suspension then it looks like the league is playing favorites.
I don’t agree with taking away their rings but the deserve much more than a slap on the wrist and the HC should get the punishment.
There will always be a taint about their recent past. They earned it by being caught cheating in such a blatant manner. [/quote]
Not what I said at all, Zap. The Pats were wrong in having someone on the sidelines who wasn’t allowed there. They were wrong in having a camera where it wasn’t allowed. However, they were not wrong in trying to steal signs.
Another example I’d like to give is the Dolphins last season, against the Pats. A number of the Miami players, after the game was over (and they won) said they had some film with audio that had all of Brady’s snap counts, all his audibles, etc. They said (and I remember specifically that Taylor was one of the players who were quoted) they knew, on a number of plays, what was coming and on what count.
How is that any different than what the Pats were attempting to do? The difference is the Dolphins never mentioned how they got ahold of the film, while the Pats were caught in the process of filming. And being caught requires a punishment, but not for CHEATING…for having an unauthorized person on the sidelines.
How different is taping the signals than just watching them and knowing what is coming. How often does it work. How much does it impact the game? Lets see how they play vs. the Chargers. I keep saying that. Lets see how they play. Has doing what they did ever had enough of an effect on a game to change what would have been a loss into a win? We will never know. I dont think so.
It think it’s already been mentioned a few times here, but they aren’t doing anything new or different. They just got caught…that’s all. So, now all the loser teams are going to sit there and act like:
1.) They lost to the Patriots because the Pats were cheating, not cos they suck and
2.) They don’t do the same damn thing, but they are too dumb to exploit it.
Like it or not, that’s pro sports. (Hence, one of MANY reasons I don’t watch them.)
And the old saying goes, as I learned it in the Army, “If you ain’t cheatin, you ain’t tryin. If you get caught, you ain’t tryin hard enough.”
The Patriots are the Gods of Football and deserve to do anything they damn well please without any interference from the mortal majority.
Now that that’s settled all you pussies can return to your Brittney bashing (already in progress).
A little late for last and previous seasons, but what about them forfeiting the win?
I don’t think awarding the Jets the victory should be part of the answer, but hit them with an “L”, suspend the coach 4 games, and take away a draft pick.
Not the first time they have been suspected of this either.
Green Bay game
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
How different is taping the signals than just watching them and knowing what is coming. How often does it work. How much does it impact the game? Lets see how they play vs. the Chargers. I keep saying that. Lets see how they play. Has doing what they did ever had enough of an effect on a game to change what would have been a loss into a win? We will never know. I dont think so.[/quote]
Yeah, Shadow, that’s what’s made me (as a Pats fan) mad about this whole thing. It’s obsession and nitpicking at it’s worst, in my opinion. Did Belichick really feel that this film would make or break the game?
I mean, by all reports the film was never analyzed on Sunday, it was confiscated before the coaches/players could even get to it. And yet they laid the hammer down on the Jets the entire game. Did they really need one or two plays in the second half that they knew were coming in order to eke out a victory?
The other thing that has me mad is that Belichick obviously knew that Mangini was privy to the filming thing…so why would he still do it with Mangini on the other sideline? Makes no sense to me.
Anyway, the punishment, IMO, will be a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder…Pats fans won’t care (because the team is pretty damn stacked already and has a ton of picks next year anyway), the rest of the country will be up in arms for 3-4 days, then will forget about it.
In a year only the true fans will remember what happened, and with some perspective they’ll realize that it was a monumental overreaction by the media.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
A little late for last and previous seasons, but what about them forfeiting the win?
I don’t think awarding the Jets the victory should be part of the answer, but hit them with an “L”, suspend the coach 4 games, and take away a draft pick.
Not the first time they have been suspected of this either.
Green Bay game[/quote]
Again, the beating they handed to the Jets was in no way effected by the tape. They never had the tape to analyze as it was in the hands of NFL security personnel, so how could the outcome have been changed in any way?
Quite honestly, I’m shocked at the level to which the media and fans are overblowing this event. I really think people will be shocked by how ‘leniant’ the NFL is on the Pats, even after Goodell has shown he’s willing to rule with an iron fist.
If you know anything about the inner workings of the NFL, the ‘silent agreements’ among coaches and personnel, you’d realize that the real jackass in all of this is Mangini, for blowing the whistle on the Pats. They’re not the only team doing it, and while other teams employ different tactics to get the same results, they’re all ‘cheating’ the way the Pats are. Until people realize this fact, they’re gonna be very upset with the way the NFL handles this.
[quote]Hambone1818 wrote:
Listen to the Barber Shop (Tikki and Ronde Barber), they said everyone does it, it’s just a ‘hush-hush’ type thing. The problem is, Mangini and Belichick had a falling out and it seems Mangini has no problem being the rat peice of sh*t I knew he was.
[/quote]
You blew all your credibility admitting to getting info from Tiki “everyone look at me” Barber.
…j/k
…not really
The jackass is belichek for not shaking mangina’s hand after the game last year.
IMO suspensions are due in this case.
NFL is in need of an immage makeover as it is seriously tarnished.
S. Merriman was rightfully suspended for use of AS.
First violation - 4 games.
B.Belichek should get a first violation equivalent also.
It may be tougher for the league office to enforce though.
Taking back rings or wins, RIDICULOUS!
What impact will this have on the Patriots vs Chargers game?
I’m going with the underdog, only time will tell though,
I can’t wait.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I agree, they it must have some effect if they do it. I think Belicheck is such an OCD coach he wasnts everything to be perfect. Now all eyes will be on them. They still win the superbowl. Watch and shut your mouth when that happens.[/quote]
Is it tought to type with Belicheck’s nuts in your mouth?
Some interesting posts in this thread, esp from those with a player’s perspective.
Also some real nonsense posts here, thanks to Shadowzz. When I’m looking for a bunch of immature name-calling and cussing, I’m usually visiting other websites.
[quote]chillain wrote:
Some interesting posts in this thread, esp from those with a player’s perspective.
Also some real nonsense posts here, thanks to Shadowzz. When I’m looking for a bunch of immature name-calling and cussing, I’m usually visiting other websites.
[/quote]
You can get that in the politics forum here.
So funny, when ESPN was running Playmakers everybody said it was unrealistic. Yet the last 2 years I’ve seen more scandals than Playmakers ever had.
Cheat if you have to but pay the price if you get caught. They had to cheat to win against the Jets they should forfeit that game. Unless they can prove they’ve done it before let them keep the rings.
Taking a draft pick away, won’t do anything. The pats live by vets anyway.
Anybody who thinks this is nothing please explain why they would intentionally premeditate a plan to break this rule?