Smiley Face!
You’re a natural at cheating! You should never do it.
To train what you are not good at, you should do every rep super, super strict.
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Cheating from time to time isn’t all bad … BUT done too often can take a toll on soft tissue IMO.
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My man George Leeman doing some monster cheat rows.
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Video with Ed Coan and Ronnie Coleman doing some cheat work on back.
The real question is can you make it work for you. If you add it in and see the benefits, keep going. If after 6 weeks you’re no better off, drop it.
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Cheating can be beneficial. The push press or jerk is just a cheat of a press but they follow the same bar path. And can be beneficial. If you cheat and swing the bar side to side the it’s not good. If you can cheat and still follow the same bar path it’s probably ok. You look a little out of control on the video. If you can’t cheat without altering the bar path just don’t cheat.
I do not see that as cheating, Ed even explains it. Ronnie however is practically falling apart so…
Each one of us needs to find their own path. Understand that (most) cheating has a higher risk of injury and understand your goals.
You then need to gain experience and judge how well cheating/not cheating, short rest/long rest, whatever it may be works for you against your goals.
You need to be a good judge though (and remember things change over time). It’s amazing how stubbornly people will stick to an idea regardless of what they experience.
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I’ve moved away from nearly all cheat-style back work for this reason specifically.
Now if my chest is supported, I might do some cheat work, because at least everything doesn’t cave in. Not knocking croc rows, but I don’t see the benefit, beyond a short term boost in performance. Most of my back work I specifically focus on a retraction, and I can’t do that if Im pulled forward by a weight that is technically to heavy for me to control without a truck ton of body english. All my pushing work gets me forward enough, last thing I need is my pulling work contributing as well.
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I use some cheat/body english on my Barbell Rows, I try to use as little as possible but sometimes I use more than I plan. The other variations I use are stricter and more about squeezing the muscle.
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Don’t you get the benefit of a increased stretch with heavier weight?
I can do rows very strict for volume but their benefit for me is wearing out.
I mean you have to stretch out your lats and reverse the movement with them. The weight does not matter. What matters you are activating the target muscles and the weight is challenging enough for you to reach muscular failure within your chosen rep range. I’m not talking about using form so strict your torso ends up stationary. I don’t even know how to do that with free weights. I am talking about being in control of the weight.
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I think this sums it up best here hugh, but I do think you should drop the weight on the meadows rows. First off, meadows never intended for it to be a cheat movement. It was very strict and pulled more to the hip to build up his, then weak point, back. Second, I don’t think you’re strong enough yet to really get full benefit out of cheating reps. Most people who cheat rows and such, pull at least 6-7+ and are rowing in the high 4’s in a cheat fashion.
I cheat some of my rows, but usually later on in the sets after doing more strict and methodical warm ups. After I hit a weight I can no longer strict row, I add in some cheat reps and sets. I do them similar to how Cailer does his, but not his last sets, more like his first few so very minimal cheating. As @dt79 said though, you are just swinging the weight up and down with no pattern or consistency and should probably learn how to control the negative before upping weights. Just like Cailer did in the video, he violently pulls the weight up, but slows it down to get a good stretch in his lats, mid back, and hams before pulling again. Something to think about
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From what I’ve seen of Meadows just on vids, his form on everything is really exceptional and there is purpose to everything.
Throwing a new lift into the mix with no distinct purpose in mind and not doing it very well is pretty much the opposite of what anybody does.
Adding it all up-
Pro lifters & BB’rs
1.Heavy musculature already in place
2. Distinct purpose
3. Good, albeit not typical form, with weight under control
OP-
- Wants to do cheat reps ???
- Throws something in there with no specific purpose or rationale
- bad form/no control
Thats not good.
OP- Stop doing that.
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Wow I would hate to see you really cheating!
The unilateral loading of that movement means that your hips and spine can twist in nasty ways. I may be wrong but that would be more dangerous than on something like Upright rows or Pendlay Rows…
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Cheat shrugs seem to be the rage. I can’t see any real problem with them.
Thoughts?
Try not to pinch any nerves that enter the spinal column up there. An old lifting partner of mine did and he was in a world of shit.
Don’t know exactly which bundle it was, but it innervates the side of the neck and upper traps. Once pinched, it caused spasms, which pinched, which caused spasms…
Honestly though it could have happened anyways to anybody. That just goes with the territory of moving weight in the 700+ range I guess (not that I know).
I mean moderate on a scale from a little body english doing rows, to my video, to this:
Alright I’ll stick with this seems like majority say nay.
Would there be a place for 1 or 2 heavier cheat sets if it was controlled as others have suggested?
I don’t see any problem with cheating in general.
The questions are:
Is it worth it? What kind of additional returns are you getting as opposed to doing the exercise normally vs cumulative strain on the joints and tendons? Are you the kind of guy who gets injured easily?
Can you cheat and fully activate the target muscles at the same time as opposed to just using your hips to swing the weight up? When you see Leeman rowing, his upper body moves forward on the concentric and the bar meets his lower abs. This shows that he is using his lats. He knows what he is doing. Most people are just doing a hip hinge plus a mid trap shrug with bent arms. Could you guys tell? Or will you just try to superficially copy his form and hope for the best?
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