Chasing Big Strick

Training Over 35 Lifter
221

Well, I broke down and bought the 5/3/1 e-book this afternoon. I just finished reading it. I was a good read. I am excited about getting on it. Only two things stopping me, for the time being…

  1. I’m not sure if I am ready to get off of the 5x5. I have considered going 5x5 until I stall then dropping to a 5x3 or 3x3.

2)My squats are nowhere near a place where I can do this with them. I have considered just using squats as an accessory, on DL day, and just doing a bench day, DL/squat day and a military day. I don’t know if this would hose the program or not. It would put military and bench back to back…Thursday and Sunday. Any insight on this?

skid, sfp- I will be rereading your logs, to see how you have done it.

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I would agree. Take your time. Don’t jump to a program until your ready. Now I don’t know anything about the 531, but if its that harsh get ready first. Lay a foundation first. No matter what if your training hard you’ll get strong. The first time I tried to squat 135, my sons had to carry me into my house. I was in EXTREME pain. I slowed down, and went to work.

223

[quote]63Galaxie wrote:
I would agree. Take your time. Don’t jump to a program until your ready. Now I don’t know anything about the 531, but if its that harsh get ready first. Lay a foundation first. No matter what if your training hard you’ll get strong. The first time I tried to squat 135, my sons had to carry me into my house. I was in EXTREME pain. I slowed down, and went to work.[/quote]

Au contraire mon frere, 5/3/1 is easier than 5x5. I’d come to it after doing 3x3 and 5x5 and the amount of recovery you get is a relief. And you still get stronger. Eventually you may just end up working for the prescribed numbers, but you won’t be near as beat up. We all have a tendency to push too hard for too long. 5/3/1 builds in the deload so you can recover after a stressful 1’s week. The downside is that it takes longer to reach your goals, but you will reach them in good health so you can enjoy being strong when you get there.

My opinion of the program after 2 months of it…

224

[quote]63Galaxie wrote:
I would agree. Take your time. Don’t jump to a program until your ready. Now I don’t know anything about the 531, but if its that harsh get ready first. Lay a foundation first. No matter what if your training hard you’ll get strong. The first time I tried to squat 135, my sons had to carry me into my house. I was in EXTREME pain. I slowed down, and went to work.[/quote]

For me, I think the foundation is going to be lots of hip work (stretching and mobility) and, once the discomfort is gone, get some form. I have set myself on a schedule to do hip work everyday, as that appears to be the biggest issue with my squatting.

63G- you pointed out, in reference to an earlier bench video, that I should widen my feet (base). I tried. My hips are so tight, though, that I can’t get them any wider without pain. So, obviously, this is a big problem for me.

baby steps…

I like your thinking, though. After maxing, I will go back to 5x5 until I am truly stalled and then push it into 3’s.

225

[quote]skidmark wrote:
63Galaxie wrote:
I would agree. Take your time. Don’t jump to a program until your ready. Now I don’t know anything about the 531, but if its that harsh get ready first. Lay a foundation first. No matter what if your training hard you’ll get strong. The first time I tried to squat 135, my sons had to carry me into my house. I was in EXTREME pain. I slowed down, and went to work.

Au contraire mon frere, 5/3/1 is easier than 5x5. I’d come to it after doing 3x3 and 5x5 and the amount of recovery you get is a relief. And you still get stronger. Eventually you may just end up working for the prescribed numbers, but you won’t be near as beat up. We all have a tendency to push too hard for too long. 5/3/1 builds in the deload so you can recover after a stressful 1’s week. The downside is that it takes longer to reach your goals, but you will reach them in good health so you can enjoy being strong when you get there.

My opinion of the program after 2 months of it…[/quote]

Pushing it too hard it definitely an issue. I deloaded on bench, just 4 days ago and my mind is telling me that I haven’t benched in a month. I am even disconcerted by the feeling. Test day is tomorrow. That has become almost insignificant to me, mentally, as I seem to really be “craving” a bench workout!

Given your description of 5/3/1, it sounds like a very good path after I have fully pounded myself with the 5x5/3x3 routines. I especially like these (at least the 5x5) since I am just starting back. It justs “feels” like it is going to get me to my true starting point faster. By starting point, I mean the level where I have stopped making gains just because I am back in the gym and I am ready to build NEW strength.

Thanks for the advice gents…

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Skid like I said, I’ve never done the 531. Where can I find info on it? I know you are doing it, but I can’t figure it out based on your log.

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Skid like I said, I’ve never done the 531. Where can I find info on it? I know you are doing it, but I can’t figure it out based on your log. I might have miss understood, but I thought I read that it was brutal.

228

[quote]63Galaxie wrote:
Skid like I said, I’ve never done the 531. Where can I find info on it? I know you are doing it, but I can’t figure it out based on your log. I might have miss understood, but I thought I read that it was brutal.[/quote]

No problem. It’s as brutal as one decides to make it, really.

Figure out what your one rep max is for each of 4 lifts
bench, squat, dead, and military press

Now take off 10% - that’s your working max

4 waves - 5’s wave, 3’s wave, 5/3/1 wave and a deload wave.

Wave 1 (5’s)
Day 1: bench (5@75%of wm, 5@80% of wm, 5@85% of wm)
day off
Day 2 : squat - same protocol as day 1
day off
day 3 : Military - same protocol as day 1
day off
day off
Day 4 : Deadlift - same protocol as day 1
day off

Wave 2 (3’s)
Day 1: Bench (3@80%, 3@85%, 3@90%)
day off
Day2: Squat - same as day 1
day off
day off
Day3: Military - same as day 1
day off
Day 4 : Deadlift Same as Day 1
day off

Wave 3 (5-3-1)
Day 1 bench - (5@85%, 3@90%, 1@95%)
day off
Day off
Day 2: squat - same as day 1
day off
Day 3: Military - same as day one
day off
Day 4 : Deadlift - same as day 1
Day off
day off

Deload wave: 5@40%, 5@50% 5@60% all lifts

You choose accessories for muscular balnce and supplementary purposes for each lift.

Some choose to do a wave a week (all 4 lifts in the same week), I’ve chosen to train every other day and take an extra day when I get burnt. Basically you’ll be doing three lifts a week with the 4th lift bleeding over into the next week.

Above I’ve shown 5% jumps in weight within a wave, but others prefer to start at 70% and do 10% jumps. MJ has a great spreadsheet which does all the calculation for you once you put your working maxes into it.

He’s following a variation of 5-3-1 called Boring But Big. I’m doing the Triumvirate but am shading into Boring but Big because I want some mass on my ass. The main idea is, as always, to work your weaknesses.

Jim Wendler, who created the progam, has a Q&A thread going in the Strength Sports forum called
“Wendler 5/3/1 Program” not surprisingly. The e-book on elitefts is pretty inexpensive and worth the cost.

Hope this helps.

edit:

I forgot to say that one can go all out on the last set of the day if one wishes, you are not restricted to just doing the prescribed reps. Jim Wendler says there will be days where you just hit the prescribed reps and you’re done and other days where you nail a new rep PR. It’s up to you, really.

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skid-

Great description. That is it to a T. My issue is going to be forcing myself to limit the accessory work, or else I will end up doing 6 or 7 exercises per workout. Fortunately I have the time to sort that out before starting.

230

For my maxes, tomorrow, I was thinking a progression like this…

135#
185#
225#
255#
285#
300#
If I get that, play it by ear…

Meat had suggested…

135#
185#
225#
275#
300-305#

The only reason I am considering mine over his is the 25# jump for the 1st max set. I don’t know if the rest of you do this, but when I first get the weight off the rack and stabilized at the top, my mind does an immediate evaluation of it. By that, I mean, the weight sits at the top, just before the descent, and my brain screams out, “Oh yeah, I got this.” or “D@mn this is heavy!” The former is okay, even good. The latter screws with my head.

So, I was thinking that a 15# jump (285# to 300#) is less likely to be “jarring”, in this manner. Thoughts?

Yes, I am way too invested in this and letting it stress me far too much. I am obsessed with the 3 - 45s per side.

231

[quote]LittleStrick wrote:
For my maxes, tomorrow, I was thinking a progression like this…

135#
185#
225#
255#
285#
300#
If I get that, play it by ear…

Meat had suggested…

135#
185#
225#
275#
300-305#

The only reason I am considering mine over his is the 25# jump for the 1st max set. I don’t know if the rest of you do this, but when I first get the weight off the rack and stabilized at the top, my mind does an immediate evaluation of it. By that, I mean, the weight sits at the top, just before the descent, and my brain screams out, “Oh yeah, I got this.” or “D@mn this is heavy!” The former is okay, even good. The latter screws with my head.

So, I was thinking that a 15# jump (285# to 300#) is less likely to be “jarring”, in this manner. Thoughts?

Yes, I am way too invested in this and letting it stress me far too much. I am obsessed with the 3 - 45s per side.[/quote]

Tough call. I prefer a bigger jump, at least on the first wave of 5 reps/set just because they’re the most fatiguing.

232

Im with meat. I would do something like: 135x8,185x6,225x2,275x1. Something along those lines.

233

[quote]63Galaxie wrote:
Im with meat. I would do something like: 135x8,185x6,225x2,275x1. Something along those lines.[/quote]

Whoops, sorry, I was completely in 5/3/1 mode with my previous reply.

Yeah, whatever Meat says is good. That’s exactly what I would suggest.

In fact, from now on, just ignore what I say and go straight to Meat and Galaxie.

234

HAHAHA! I got where you were coming from.

I meant to add 300. BTW upon reflection I think I would do 5 reps on 185.
This way your work up expends a little less energy, but still gets your CNS ready.

Don’t forget your warm ups: barx10, 95x10. I might even start it all off with a set of push ups.

235

Thanks gents… I will go with the consensus and follow the path of meat, then.

No worries, sfp, I got what you meant…and that your clutch had you stuck in 5/3/1 :slight_smile:

63G, I DEFINITELY will not forget the warmups. Pushups, though…well, they give me that strained feeling. I think I just weigh to much to jump right into them. It is like jumping to a 200+# bench…lol. I have been thinking about adding them to my workout, though. Just get my 8 year old on my back and I can do them BW+80#. I’m not sure how many I would get, though.

Oh yeah…the wristwraps got here yesterday. I tried them on and WOW, I never would have guessed the support they give. I am looking forward to trying them…just not today.

236

Hey, They will really help. Esp. to get the 300.

237

Made it through my bench max day. Results were good and yet frustrating, as you will see…

Bench
dislocatesx10x2
barx10x2
95x10
135x10
185x5
225x3
275x1 - (this is 10# below my max at the beginning of April) - video included for comparison with 300# rep

300x1 - PR +15# (against max in April) - felt very strong…seemed to go up as easily as 275#

This is where I got cocky…and sloppy
315x0 - I should have gotten this, but hosed my bar path off my chest and lost it
315x0 - Didn’t have the gas after the previous fail

305x1 - PR +20# (again, against April max) - decided to drop 10# to see if I could break 300#…spent, no form, but it went

Close Grip Bench
185x10x2

Supersets
Tricep Pushdowns
90x15x2

Machine Flyes
90x20x2

That is it. I am really pleased to have broken back over 300#, but disappointed that I screwed up the 1st attempt at 315#. I’ll get it next time…and beyond.

I will also be using the wrist wraps on heavier sets. My wrists are torqued.

238

Oh, I have a question. In the fail, at 315#, I seem to be several inches off the chest when it stalls. That is a weak point where? Chest, delts or triceps?

Thanks

239

Looking at your vid. I would say no. What I see is you moved to fast and lost your set up. No rebound. Any time you get close to a max effort, everything has to be tight. Not being tight is how I got hurt.

240

LS, did you see this ar-tickle?

The video is pretty cool.