Celebrations in Gaza

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
Plus, you used fallacy number 24 (genetic fallacy) and , your personal favorite, good old number 32 (ad hominem).

Since your whole “argument” is a string of fallacies, technically, you made no argument at all.

#32 is personal attack -not ad hominem - which a I freely admit to.

#24 is not Genetic Fallacy, it is False Dilema.

You are the one who is a master of your favorite: #1. And how can you accuseme of Genetic fallacy, when your little Nazi bullshit is the same fucking example they give for #26?

Are you really this stupid, or can you just not fucking read? (#32)

Here’s the link again: Fallacies - Nizkor

Please try harder. You are particularly pathetic today.

This is not the same.

Dismissing anything that comes from wikipedia is a genetic fallacy.

PROVING that you sound like a nazi by quoting nazis making the same comparisons as you do is not a genetic fallacy.

When wiki is not a reliable source for non-scientific debate, and has already been proven as such, there is no fallacy. It is dismissing drivel.

“I sound like a nazi, therefore I am one” is nothing but pure genetic fallacy.

What part of the debate centers around nazi’s in the first place?

You used #26 to do a #1.

Now - go learn the numbers, then maybe take the rest of the day off. You are not even in the ballpark today.

As long as we have established that you use the same rhetoric and reasoning as Nazis in propaganda speeches I concur that this does not automatically make you a Nazi.

Just as an animal that walks like a duck and talks like a talk could be something eerily duck-like, but not quite a duck.

“We” have not established shit. You used a fallacy to get to another.

Just because I refer to a group of murderous, nomadic, terrorists bent on the destruction of Israel as vermin does not make me a nazi. It makes me extremely pro-Israel.

But you just can’t wrap your tiny little pea-sized brain around that notion, so you have to resort to multiple fallacies.

Seriously - just stop embarrassing yourself.

Hey I´ll grant you even that.

You are a pro-Israel American using the same rhetoric and reasoning the Nazis used in their propaganda speeches.

And, as I conceded that does not make you a Nazi.

It makes you someone who argues like one for a similar outcome.

Would you prefer Nazi-esque?

Para- Nazi? Quasi- Nazi? Nazi-phil, or Philonazi?

Nice tangent. Please continue with your strawman by yourself. Preferably somewhere else.

You have yet to answer the question what your nazi fascination has to do with this thread. I suspect because you know your straw man is a bunch of shit, and there is no connection with your preoccupation and anything in this thread.
[/quote]

What strawman?

I put your quote next to Hitler and Himmler quotes basically stating the same, sometime IN THE EXACT SAME WORDS, and proved that you sound like a Nazi.

Either man-up and admit that what you wrote was puerile BS or accept that the shoe fits.

102

A good read from Victor Davis Hanson.

A Modest Proposal for Middle East Peace

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWM2ZjY3YjNkMTA3ZDY4Mjg1OWY3OTUyNzcyYTc3NmU=

103

[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
Plus, you used fallacy number 24 (genetic fallacy) and , your personal favorite, good old number 32 (ad hominem).

Since your whole “argument” is a string of fallacies, technically, you made no argument at all.

#32 is personal attack -not ad hominem - which a I freely admit to.

#24 is not Genetic Fallacy, it is False Dilema.

You are the one who is a master of your favorite: #1. And how can you accuseme of Genetic fallacy, when your little Nazi bullshit is the same fucking example they give for #26?

Are you really this stupid, or can you just not fucking read? (#32)

Here’s the link again: Fallacies - Nizkor

Please try harder. You are particularly pathetic today.

This is not the same.

Dismissing anything that comes from wikipedia is a genetic fallacy.

PROVING that you sound like a nazi by quoting nazis making the same comparisons as you do is not a genetic fallacy.

When wiki is not a reliable source for non-scientific debate, and has already been proven as such, there is no fallacy. It is dismissing drivel.

“I sound like a nazi, therefore I am one” is nothing but pure genetic fallacy.

What part of the debate centers around nazi’s in the first place?

You used #26 to do a #1.

Now - go learn the numbers, then maybe take the rest of the day off. You are not even in the ballpark today.

As long as we have established that you use the same rhetoric and reasoning as Nazis in propaganda speeches I concur that this does not automatically make you a Nazi.

Just as an animal that walks like a duck and talks like a talk could be something eerily duck-like, but not quite a duck.

“We” have not established shit. You used a fallacy to get to another.

Just because I refer to a group of murderous, nomadic, terrorists bent on the destruction of Israel as vermin does not make me a nazi. It makes me extremely pro-Israel.

But you just can’t wrap your tiny little pea-sized brain around that notion, so you have to resort to multiple fallacies.

Seriously - just stop embarrassing yourself.

Hey I´ll grant you even that.

You are a pro-Israel American using the same rhetoric and reasoning the Nazis used in their propaganda speeches.

And, as I conceded that does not make you a Nazi.

It makes you someone who argues like one for a similar outcome.

Would you prefer Nazi-esque?

Para- Nazi? Quasi- Nazi? Nazi-phil, or Philonazi?

Nice tangent. Please continue with your strawman by yourself. Preferably somewhere else.

You have yet to answer the question what your nazi fascination has to do with this thread. I suspect because you know your straw man is a bunch of shit, and there is no connection with your preoccupation and anything in this thread.

What strawman?

I put your quote next to Hitler and Himmler quotes basically stating the same, sometime IN THE EXACT SAME WORDS, and proved that you sound like a Nazi.

Either man-up and admit that what you wrote was puerile BS or accept that the shoe fits.

[/quote]

But what does hitler have to do with Gaza? You create an argument completely unrelated to the debate, and attack - completely ignoring the subject at hand.

That is a straw man.

Thank you for playing. Now run along.

104

[quote]rainjack wrote:

But what does hitler have to do with Gaza? You create an argument completely unrelated to the debate, and attack - completely ignoring the subject at hand.

That is a straw man.

Thank you for playing. Now run along.

[/quote]

He has everything to do with it.

His tactic of de-humanizing perceived opponents to justify a sort of “cleansing” of “vermin” is exactly what you are doing.

“Dehumanization is the psychological process of demonizing the enemy, making them seem less than human and hence not worthy of humane treatment. This can lead to increased violence, human rights violations, war crimes, and genocide.”

“Jews in the eyes of Nazis and Tutsis in the eyes of Hutus (in the Rwandan genocide) are but two examples.”

In case of Palestinians you are playing the exact same tune and you are wrong, as the examples above were.

105

Well if you thinking I am a nazi is what gets you through the night, knock yourself out.

I didn’t know you found the word vermin so offensive.

Not that I care, as you hate the Jewish State, but are above all this because you don’t use small rodents to describe them.

But, for the record, if the palestinians, and Syria, and the rest of the ME would just leave Israel the hell alone - there would be no need to invoke the word most hated.

So - did you find the attack on Israeli students wrong, or were you celebrating with Lixy?

106

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Well if you thinking I am a nazi is what gets you through the night, knock yourself out.

I didn’t know you found the word vermin so offensive.

Not that I care, as you hate the Jewish State, but are above all this because you don’t use small rodents to describe them.

But, for the record, if the palestinians, and Syria, and the rest of the ME would just leave Israel the hell alone - there would be no need to invoke the word most hated.

So - did you find the attack on Israeli students wrong, or were you celebrating with Lixy? [/quote]

I do not care either way.

I think after 6 decades they pretty much deserve each other.

Either they find a way to co-exist or they´ll continue to live in fear.

Definitely not my problem and I refuse to make it mine.

107

[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Well if you thinking I am a nazi is what gets you through the night, knock yourself out.

I didn’t know you found the word vermin so offensive.

Not that I care, as you hate the Jewish State, but are above all this because you don’t use small rodents to describe them.

But, for the record, if the palestinians, and Syria, and the rest of the ME would just leave Israel the hell alone - there would be no need to invoke the word most hated.

So - did you find the attack on Israeli students wrong, or were you celebrating with Lixy?

I do not care either way.

I think after 6 decades they pretty much deserve each other.

Either they find a way to co-exist or they´ll continue to live in fear.

Definitely not my problem and I refuse to make it mine.

[/quote]

Do you think Israel has a right to exist on the land they currently occupy?

108

Heh, what did I tell you?

See how clever the Israeli leadership is? Instead of killing people and fomenting the never-ending cycle of violence, they’re looking at the dead students pragmatically. The status quo, as fragile as it is, is still largely in their favor, and they wouldn’t risk stirring shit up.

However, this move is a very severe blow to the head to the already illegitimate Fatah government. But they figure that, in the worst case, they’ll have to deal with near-inoffensive Katyushas.

109

[quote]lixy wrote:
Heh, what did I tell you?

See how clever the Israeli leadership is? Instead of killing people and fomenting the never-ending cycle of violence, they’re looking at the dead students pragmatically. The status quo, as fragile as it is, is still largely in their favor, and they wouldn’t risk stirring shit up.

However, this move is a very severe blow to the head to the already illegitimate Fatah government. But they figure that, in the worst case, they’ll have to deal with near-inoffensive Katyushas. [/quote]

As a Muslim, Lixy, what do you (just YOU) find offensive about Jews? Don’t launch into some diatribe against a government; just what is it about Jews that bothers you?

The ‘Zionist’ government is a reaction to hatred and violence directed against Jews. So there must be something about Jews that makes Muslims mad enough to want to kill them. Otherwise there’d be a peaceful Israeli government.

I also think that ranting about Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is just an excuse. Very very few Muslims cared in any way about Palestinians, or they’d have agreed to give 'em some of their land in Jordan and Syria already, instead of letting them live in hovels in Palestine.

So, what is it about Jews and Judaism that makes Muslims frothing at the mouth strap-on-a-vest mad?

110

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
As a Muslim, Lixy, what do you (just YOU) find offensive about Jews? Don’t launch into some diatribe against a government; just what is it about Jews that bothers you? [/quote]

Absolutely nothing.

No. Israel is the embodiment of Zionism.

Now, if you’re arguing that the rise of Zionism has been a reaction to all the anti-Semitism the Jews had to endure, then I agree with you.

[quote]I also think that ranting about Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is just an excuse. Very very few Muslims cared in any way about Palestinians, or they’d have agreed to give 'em some of their land in Jordan and Syria already, instead of letting them live in hovels in Palestine.

So, what is it about Jews and Judaism that makes Muslims frothing at the mouth strap-on-a-vest mad? [/quote]

Don’t turn a nationalist issue into a religious one.

111

[quote]lixy wrote:
Don’t turn a nationalist issue into a religious one. [/quote]

It is religious. There is no other possible reason for you and your brothers in murder to even care about the jewish state.

If you really cared about peace, you would find somewhere to put the paletinians - instead of watching them starve to death.

It is all about your hatred - “your” meaning the jew hating murderers that populate the ME.

It has been a religious issue since day one.

You are a fucking liar.

112

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Well if you thinking I am a nazi is what gets you through the night, knock yourself out.

I didn’t know you found the word vermin so offensive.

Not that I care, as you hate the Jewish State, but are above all this because you don’t use small rodents to describe them.

But, for the record, if the palestinians, and Syria, and the rest of the ME would just leave Israel the hell alone - there would be no need to invoke the word most hated.

So - did you find the attack on Israeli students wrong, or were you celebrating with Lixy?

I do not care either way.

I think after 6 decades they pretty much deserve each other.

Either they find a way to co-exist or they´ll continue to live in fear.

Definitely not my problem and I refuse to make it mine.

Do you think Israel has a right to exist on the land they currently occupy?

[/quote]

I think they have 300 nukes, which makes the question irrelevant.

For now.

Another 20 years and every biology major can build WMDs in a garage.

If they do not use that time they can use their “rights” to decorate their tombstones.

113

[quote]orion wrote:
I think they have 300 nukes, which makes the question irrelevant.

For now.
[/quote]

Evidently not to a billion or so Arabs.

But nice dodge.

Care to try again and actually give an answer worth reading?

114

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Evidently not to a billion or so Arabs. [/quote]

Actually, it’s a couple of hundred millions.

115

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
I think they have 300 nukes, which makes the question irrelevant.

For now.

Evidently not to a billion or so Arabs.

But nice dodge.

Care to try again and actually give an answer worth reading? [/quote]

That was not a dodge but a nuanced answer.

Yes Israel has a right to exist.

In some parts that belonged to Austria and Germany.

Which is not going to happen either.

116

[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
I think they have 300 nukes, which makes the question irrelevant.

For now.

Evidently not to a billion or so Arabs.

But nice dodge.

Care to try again and actually give an answer worth reading?

That was not a dodge but a nuanced answer.

Yes Israel has a right to exist.

In some parts that belonged to Austria and Germany.

Which is not going to happen either.

[/quote]

Not as nuanced as you think. Actually not even close.

So, judging from your answers - or complete lack thereof - you do not believe Israel has a right to exist inside its current boundaries.

Would it also be safe to assume that you would prefer the Jew still be in Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka, or something of the like?

117

[quote]orion wrote:
That was not a dodge but a nuanced answer.

Yes Israel has a right to exist.

In some parts that belonged to Austria and Germany.

Which is not going to happen either.

[/quote]

But, like you said, fantasy Austrian/German based Israel doesn’t exist. So do you believe Israel, based in the real world, has a right to continue it’s existence? Just as much as Egypt, SA, or even Germany?

118

[quote]Sloth wrote:
But, like you said, fantasy Austrian/German based Israel doesn’t exist. So do you believe Israel, based in the real world, has a right to continue it’s existence? Just as much as Egypt, SA, or even Germany?[/quote]

Egypt, SA or Germany are nothing like Israel.

119

[quote]Sloth wrote:
orion wrote:
That was not a dodge but a nuanced answer.

Yes Israel has a right to exist.

In some parts that belonged to Austria and Germany.

Which is not going to happen either.

But, like you said, fantasy Austrian/German based Israel doesn’t exist. So do you believe Israel, based in the real world, has a right to continue it’s existence? Just as much as Egypt, SA, or even Germany?[/quote]

If you ask me this way, a wholehearted yes, just like these countries.

120

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
I think they have 300 nukes, which makes the question irrelevant.

For now.

Evidently not to a billion or so Arabs.

But nice dodge.

Care to try again and actually give an answer worth reading?

That was not a dodge but a nuanced answer.

Yes Israel has a right to exist.

In some parts that belonged to Austria and Germany.

Which is not going to happen either.

Not as nuanced as you think. Actually not even close.

So, judging from your answers - or complete lack thereof - you do not believe Israel has a right to exist inside its current boundaries.

Would it also be safe to assume that you would prefer the Jew still be in Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka, or something of the like?

[/quote]

I would not know why you assume that, since I am not the “Verminator”.

You are.

To answer your first question:

I do not know what bestows the right to exist on a nation if not the will of its citizens for it to exist and their ability to defend it.

Israel seems to be doing fine.