Cause and Effect

Nutrition
1

I’m no writer but I feel compelled to tell this story in hopes of some good feedback.

Coming upon day 13 of a decided 14 day cycle of M-1-T, I decided to start PCT by stacking Biotest M and TRIBEX In accordance with label instructions as well as milk thistle three caps a day.

Day 13 I felt really good, day 14 I felt better and day 15 something really interesting happened. I was absolutely on top of the game. I felt incredibly strong, tight and powerful. My workout was insane and it felt good. Exactly the effect I was looking for.

So having finished up in the basement gym I went upstairs to have dinner and enjoy my son’s 12th birthday. This is were it went bad.

I suddenly found myself engaged in a small spat with the wife and it was quickly turning ugly. I asked her to stop…stop…please stop…BOOM, MASSIVE EXPLOSION.

Let me try to paint a picture of how ugly this was. There was spaghetti across the ceiling, two walls, the counter top, and the carpet. I eat alot of food. In addition, there was 2 busted lights on the chandelier, a small hole in the ceiling (12 foot), broken glass everywhere and one instantly broken home.

You need to know that I’m not a stranger to these supplements and I’m not prone to these types of reactions. However, I was highly agressive in my early to mid twenties. I’m 37 now.

I’m not the strongest guy but everyone in the family has seen me Deadlift 450 and squat 400 many times and they were scared. Probably a good response as I was out of my mind.

So they all split in short order and didn’t come back till the next day. I really screwed up. My wife was and probably is still concerned, as am I.

Here’s the kicker, During the long and drawn out process of repair and restoration my wife said to me "I know testosterone can increase agression and if that’s the main goal, well, that’s something your going to have to deal with.

So what’s a guy to do. I don’t want to give up the advantage but the home is not the football field. To be honest I scared the hell out of myself as well as everyone else because I am faced with the reality that there is a possibilty of really doing some damage. The kind that can’t be repaired.

Heavy sigh!

2

Learn to control your temper.

Sure, certain supplements and drugs may make it easier to fly off the handle, but don’t use it as an excuse.

You are still responsible for your own behavior.

3

Perhaps this might not be purely in line with what everyone else might add to this thread, but ultimately, why do you weight lift? To feel good, to be happy, to feel healthy, to enjoy life? If these are your goals for weight-lifting, and you love your family, I don’t see much of a dilemma. Sure you may not have the most gigantic rippling biceps, but if you find the supplements are affecting you in a negative way, cut them out.

Everyone reacts differently to drugs and stimulus, and no one is the same - particularly when you begin artifically modifying things like testosterone production. To each his own, but I know in this situation, if I felt that I was becoming too aggressive, it won’t take even a second for me to decide to stop taking the supplements.

4

Don’t know what to say. Do the words self-control mean anything to you?

5

Vroom,

Unlike some conservatives around here I happen to like you and respect your opinion but that’s a little shallow.

I suppose I could have expounded on this before but I really am (normally)a very even keeled guy. In fact, that’s been a strong point and a safe point through many jobs and friendships.

This is not normal behavior for me. I realize that you don’t know me so I suppose you’lle have to take my word for it.

Anyway, because I consider self control important and practice it as a habit, I am completely baffled about the situation.

Perhaps because nothing like this ever happened to you, you find it to be petty but remember friend if you think you cant be decieved, you are decieved already.

6

This truly sounds like those who blame alcohol because they slept with that really ugly chick or because they slept with their girlfriend’s best friend. Essentially, you are blaming products designed to only get you back into “high normal” range as far as testosterone (not one tribulus based supplement is going to boost your test to supraphysiologic levels) for why you lost your temper. This does come down to self control regardless of how you would love to blame something else. I know, it would make you feel great to think it was because of some tribulus that you started flinging food everywhere, but get serious. Even “roid rage” has been proven to be a myth yet you claim to have experienced it from something that doesn’t even produce testosterone on any level close to that. It may hurt to hear the truth, but hey, that doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth…unless the bottles of Tribex are what threw the food at the ceiling.

7

i vent my anger by cursing. i’m not saying it is the proper thing to do in front of the family, but i believe it is better then physical damage and harm to others and yourself. My testosterone levels have been on the low to below normal level most of my life so i can’t attribute my aggressiveness to that hormone. It is just an attitude and selfishness. laters pk

8

Well professor, I’m not to proud to say that maybe you guys are right. At least it is an isolated incident and I’ll be searching for causes other than supplementation. Just the same, I’ll also be using discretion while supplementing just in case there’s something to that. Meanwhile, I’m gonna go kick some ass (it’s a joke). Thanks to all for the feedback.

9

HD -
The same sort of thing (but to a far lesser degree!) happened to me when using a combination of RED KAT (2 caps) and TRIBEX (3 caps) twice a day. FYI, I was 37 at the time too (38 now).

Anyway, I’m now using Alpha Male, which is missing one of the ingredents found in TRIBEX. My lifts are actually better but the whole rage / short fuse thing is GONE.

Yes, of course, we are responsible for our actions, so the whole “Man, Get a Grip” post won’t help at all - That’s why you wrote this post, you already know you need to get a grip.

Just like any other OTC drug / herb / supplement, if it has unintended consequences - Discontinue Usage.

You are not alone - Just be smart and don’t let it happen again. What is more important; A 50 lb increase in your bench, or your wife and kids? (Retorical question I know…)

Good luck - Flowers and a card with a hand written apology will go a long way a repairing this damage.

MIKE

10

Holmdog,

I certainly didn’t mean to be insulting, but from your post it sounded like a reasonable reply. There is generally a point at which we all make a choice:

  • We love woman X but have an opportunity to screw woman Y.

  • I’m getting really angry and I’m going to go apeshit or I’m going to get the hell out of dodge.

  • I’m going to punch this obnoxious bastard in the face instead of walking away.

There is a decision point. If you were feeling really on top of your game, it might have been a bit more difficult to accept you needed an attitude adjustment, if you know what I mean?

It goes like this. I’m on top of the world. I can do no wrong. Holy shit did I ever fuck up.

The only other thing I would suggest is looking at other issues that could be impacting you at the same time. Problems at work, problems at home, lack of sleep, money problems, midlife crisis, whatever.

Personally, my weak point is when I’m stressed my judgement wavers and I’ll say things I shouldn’t say. This can be bad for a relationship or bad for a career, but I recognize it is a weakness of mine and think I’m getting better at recognizing and controlling it.

I remember one time when I was stressed I was arguing with my ex, and she just couldn’t let the issue drop. I told her I didn’t want to talk about it right then. I told her I needed some time to relax. She wouldn’t drop it and I was ready to flip out. I told her I’d be back when I’d cooled down. She freaked that I walked out for several hours, and had trouble understanding how I felt, but that I could live with.

Anyway, just thought I’d throw a bit more out there. I certainly sympathize with the situation and such and didn’t mean to come across like an asshole, but then again, look at the forum you are airing this issue in… lol.

You’ve got some thinking to do. Some crow to eat. Some strategies to work out to prevent this type of thing. Some folks here will call it like they see it.

11

Yea Zoom, Now that’s what I’m talking about. Thanks. I wasn’t sure if this was the right forum or not. Fortunately I don’t really care. Just in case any one wants to know, this thing is turning out for the good, but that’s a different story. One last thought; I have some kin folk in Peterborough and if I ever get up that way…

12

holmdog, if you want some good reads on self discovery and self improvement buy http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/books/Book_DYPT.asp

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/books_tapes.asp

if you want to know why you act the way you do, you should seriously check these books out. it is very alarming on how accurate it is. i had to put it down several times because of how right on it was. you’ll discover that your problems are not unique to you (or your supplements) but to your personality. it goes in depth as to what EXACTLY each personality type is capable of when concerning what level of mental health they are in. if you do get it please post what you think. fyi, i’m an 8 w/7wing.

13

holmdog,
I don’t think you should loose site of the fact that many of the pro-steroids probably don’t have much research and saftey data concerning their use. These “supplements” ARE DRUGS–period. As such, they can have, and one should expect them to have, disparate and sometimes negative effects.

Just because something does not stimulate endogenous testosterone levels to supraphysiologic levels, does not mean that other aspects of its (probably poorly understood) pharmocology don’t, or can’t, negatively affect our emotions.

There is, of course, no debate concerning the effects of hormones on emotional state. I too believe that “roid rage” is LARGELY a myth. Nevertheless, there are individuals who seem more sensitive to the effects of hormones on emotional state. I believe the need for self control is a given–we are all responsible for our own actions, ultimately.

So, while I believe that self control must be exercised, don’t forget that you are using a largely unresearched drug. All the same cautions, self monitoring, risk to benefit ratio issues, etc. that apply to prescription drugs apply here.

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