Catholic Church - Your Opinion?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Fleck, I do not want you to take this the wrong way. I think your parents may not be explaining what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

@Grny The Catholic Church does need to do some house cleaning; however, I do not think that most people have the same opinion of what needs to be done as what the Catholic Church needs.

As well, I have some opinions of what the Catholic Church should start doing. I think the Catholic Church should start having more folks with charisma in the pulpit. I think the all around seminary process needs to be stricter to weed out those unfit to be priests. I think the laity need to start being more friendly. I think more folks need to become apologist and teach folks about the faith.

There is other things, but those four are some things that the Catholic Church that I think needs to change.[/quote]

I also think they should let women be ordained. Women are divine too, you know. You have to have male and female to make a whole. Was not Mary divine? The Church has to recognize the Sacred Feminine. You can’t have life without a womb to nurture it and bring it forth.

They also need to elect a pope who is on the near side of 60 or 70, not 80. They should probably publish some of the Vatican Archives, maybe as a book about the history of the Church, an insider’s version? Even I would read that. The Church has to stop acting like a secret society and more like a public religion.[/quote]

Just as a lay person has his or her place in the Church so does a female. That place is not the priesthood, however. Non-Catholics (and some Catholics) have thought that the priest is the only important figure in Catholicism, but this is not true. The Catholic Church has always taught that a Priest is responsible for worship at the church and the mother is responsible for worship in the home. Similar to how Mother Mary, Mary M., etc. followed Jesus but where not apostles.

Catholic teaching has also always been that the most important figure in a person’s religious journey is that person’s mother. This is based on the fact that only the women remained to witness Jesus being crucified. A woman was the first to discover the resurrection.

42

@Rohnyn: Well seminary takes 6 years, and you can’t become a seminarian until your 18. So, none. There are no priests at the age of 18.

43

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This is being nit picky, but Saint Augustine IS part of the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

As I pointed out, Saint Augustine was a admitted sinner in his youth while traveling in Africa and other places. Upon his conversion and rededication, which S. Augustine credits to his mother’s devotion and prayers, he became Pope. It is a true story of God’s power and forgiveness and a person’s need for God’s guidance.

44

this is being nit picky again but Saint Augustine never became Pope.
He was bishop of Hippo Regius.

45

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnyn: Well seminary takes 6 years, and you can’t become a seminarian until your 18. So, none. There are no priests at the age of 18.[/quote]
I from the beginning referred to the time they -enter- the seminary not the time they graduate.

46

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I was a pro-Catholic, baptizd Catholic, confirmed Catholic. I wasn’t that conerned with the doctrine as much as I had grown up in it, and it seemed ‘right.’
I went to Catholic School for Middle School, and then Military school for high school, it wasn’t mandatory but I went to church then.
Then in my first year of college, I kept on going to church.
I stopped but was always supportive. Then got into partying alot and decided to go back and be a ‘real’ catholic.
Joined Catholic group, studied Catechism, Bible, Aquinas etcetera.
I reached the zenith of my belief when for maybe a month and a half just recently in the shower I ‘felt God’ as I looked at my forearms.

I thought alot, on whether I was going to become a real Catholic and not Shmatholic, as those Catholics but do not believe there are truly Angels and Demons, that the bible is basically literal and do not compromise their beliefs to modern society.

I broke it all down, and realized to be a ‘real’ Catholic, you have at some point start believing and turn off your brain to reason. I could go into a million reasons and the practicing Catholics could pull their lopsided justifications to save themselves from questioning it themselves, but that’s not the point of this thread.

As I researched further into critiques of the Church, I dismissed most, such as the ‘indigenous genocide’ bullshit…disease is their fault? Mesoamerican sacrified 7 year old girls, and this is some sort of atrocity that the Spanish destroyed it and the Church embraced it’s refugees, and in doing so granted all the non-hispanic natives and citizens RIGHTS under the empire…Anyways small rant.

The main thing is, the Church has been the Confucianism of the West but, it is now a decadent and perverse shadow of its former self. Most notable in it’s sex scandal. This scandal is not unique to the Catholic Church, but the fact is, the Church is supposed to be above these things. For the Pope himself to be so knee deep in pederast protection, then it’s pretty obvious to me it is a corrupt and dying institution at the end of its life.

All this is so ironic because when Priests have come out and said they were celibate but gay, they have been ejected from the Church, but when a Priests shoves his dick 6 inches up a young boy’s ass the church is all…nah nah he can stay…ya…Hypocrital and perverse?

This also made me not only doubt but then fully reject and ridicule the idea of the Pope as the only man in direct Communion with God.

These are my thoughts, I don’t really want to argue these points at all, I’m just telling this former Catholic’s view point. Aside from a 1000 viewpoints I’ve always had and had to oppress, come to, that are in opposition to the Church.[/quote]

Honestly, I don’t think you understood the church all that well based on what you said… For example:
“This also made me not only doubt but then fully reject and ridicule the idea of the Pope as the only man in direct Communion with God.”

That’s not what the pope is, does, or is his job. If he is in direct communion with God, he more a prophet than a pope.
The pope is no more than this:
“The title pope, once used with far greater latitude (see below, section V), is at present employed solely to denote the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth.”

I agree the church has issues and it always will. Christ gave men the job of running the church and man has a stunning ability to fuck things up. Still, with all the fuck ups by man through out history. The base tenants of the church have never changed since apostolic times.

As far as not being inline with reason, if you studied Aquinas, you cannot be serious. He was very in tuned with Greek philosophy and used much of it in his arguments. Philosophy and science are important to the church…It has learned it’s lesson on turning a blind eye to it.

As internal issues like gay but celibate priests, well as far as I know, the ones who were ordained are still ordained, they put a moratorium on it for now, but no one was sacked unless they are acting in opposition to the church. Sadly, nearly all the molestation stories are with boys, so I wouldn’t consider this completely unreasonable at the moment, so long as it’s not permanent…The media keeps dredging up the same old cases and plastering them all over the front page like they are new…

47

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Guilt ridden homos huh? Did one of your male relatives molest you, because it sounds like you’re projecting here. There is nothing wrong with being a homo, there is something wrong with acting on that homoness. << Church’s words.

God loves the homos, God does not love homos putting it into each others butts.
[/quote]

Okay…so it’s okay to be homosexual but you can’t act on that, which means you have to be celibate? They’re not hurting anybody. Don’t you think that homosexuality would be extinct if it wasn’t part of human nature? How many men like to watch girl-on-girl action? Obviously heterosexual men like homosexuality in certain aspects or there wouldn’t be so many girl/girl pornos made.

48

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

Most priests are not naive young men. The average age of a priest when ordained is 34 years old. Older than you, much more mature.

Of course they are hooked on Catholicism, they are going to be priests. As well, you should try being fearful of the Lord.

I think it would be beneficial to you if you called up a seminarian and ask them what kind of process it takes to get into a seminary school, then the process it takes to actually become a priest. There has to be more than just feeling “good” to become a priest.

Life and adventure? Dealing with people from the richest of the rich, to the poorest of the poor. In the streets with the homeless, dealing with the abused, the sick, the people no one wishes to deal with. If that isn’t life and adventure, I am not sure what is.

I’ll ignore your sexual comments as Catholics are supposed to refrain from sexual relations before marriage so why would not getting laid have anything to do with it. A lot of Catholic laity don’t get laid until they get married either. Maybe you’re the one we should all be making fun of because of your promiscuous behavior.

Guilt ridden homos huh? Did one of your male relatives molest you, because it sounds like you’re projecting here. There is nothing wrong with being a homo, there is something wrong with acting on that homoness. << Church’s words.

God loves the homos, God does not love homos putting it into each others butts.

Statistically, in America, Catholic Priests are no more likely to be gay or a child molester than denominational Christians clergy. Actually it is 1.3% 400,000 priests 4392 charged with with sexual related crimes. 6% of those cases convicted the Priests. So, since in America we are innocent til proven guilty that means out of 400,000 priests in America 263 are guilty of child molestation.

I do not think they are fearful little bitches. I was taught at a young age, unless discernment showed you that you were supposed to be married. You were supposed to be a priest.

Actually there is something honorable about being celibate your whole life. We are warned not to prod those that wish to remain without a woman. It takes a true man to be a true man, having a woman has nothing to do with it. A real man, a strong man is a virtuous man. Which has little to do with loving a woman.

Maybe you should become a real man and learn some virtue instead of spouting off false witness.[/quote]

At 35 years as average or median, this could just as well be that half are around at 18 and the rest 40s or 50s or older, which would make around 35.
Give me the percentage of Priests ordained in their 30s and I think it is much less represented than the young and the middle aged.[/quote]

Just as I guessed you would, you completely ignored the entire block of text I posted directly addressing this. Here you go once again, Mr. Cognitive dissonance:

http://findarticles.com/...ag=content;col1

Ordained average age is 35
National Catholic Reporter, May 11, 2007

WASHINGTON – Results of a survey released this spring show that the average age of the 475 priests expected to be ordained in the United States this year is 35 and one-third of this year’s new priests were born in another country, primarily Vietnam, Mexico, Poland or the Philippines.

The national study of the ordination class of 2007 shows that the men are well educated. More than six in 10 completed college before entering the seminary and some have advanced degrees in law, medicine and education.

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/...viewStory=16010

Who is entering the priesthood in 2010 America? In the run-up to Vocations Sunday, results of a new survey of men being ordained priests, has been conducted by the Centre for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA), at Georgetown University. It reveals that [b]the vast majority (92 percent) of American men being ordained to the priesthood report some kind of full-time work experience prior to entering the seminary[/b], most often in education. Three in five (60 percent) ordinands completed college before pursuing the priesthood, with one in five (20 percent) also receiving a graduate degree. One in three (34 percent) entered the seminary while in college.

The median age of ordinands is 33. [u]The youngest member of the Class of 2010 is 25[/u]; 11 men are being ordained at the age of 65 or older. On average, men were 18 when they first considered their vocation.

You were wrong. Period.

Now, I repeat: if you are this completely, blindingly, ignorantly wrong about your premises, how can you possibly trust the decisions you are making based upon your prior assumptions?

49

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

[/quote]

Chris, you don’t know who Father Corapi is? I find that genuinely surprising. You are in for quite the treat.

50

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

[/quote]

Chris, you don’t know who Father Corapi is? I find that genuinely surprising. You are in for quite the treat. [/quote]
A little hard to believe if he is as Catholic as he says he is.
I’ve been to Corapi seminaries its funny how bhe basically glorifies cocaine/thug lifestyle and amuses uptight middle aged Catholics.

51

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnyn: Well seminary takes 6 years, and you can’t become a seminarian until your 18. So, none. There are no priests at the age of 18.[/quote]
I from the beginning referred to the time they -enter- the seminary not the time they graduate.[/quote]

You said Priest, being a seminarian has nothing to do with being a Priest. You have to be a seminarian before you become a priest (usually), but being a seminarian doesn’t mean you’ll be a priest.

The average age for a Catholic Seminarian is 40 years old.

As well, most of the time you have to have an undergraduate to become a seminarian. So, unless someone has skipped four grades in primary school or secondary school. They will be 22-23 when entering seminary at the earliest.

52

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Guilt ridden homos huh? Did one of your male relatives molest you, because it sounds like you’re projecting here. There is nothing wrong with being a homo, there is something wrong with acting on that homoness. << Church’s words.

God loves the homos, God does not love homos putting it into each others butts.
[/quote]

Okay…so it’s okay to be homosexual but you can’t act on that, which means you have to be celibate? They’re not hurting anybody. Don’t you think that homosexuality would be extinct if it wasn’t part of human nature? How many men like to watch girl-on-girl action? Obviously heterosexual men like homosexuality in certain aspects or there wouldn’t be so many girl/girl pornos made.[/quote]

I personally do not like girl on girl action. Yes, priests have to be celibate unless they are in a special circumstance. Like some priests in Africa where men are not respected if they are celibate. Others are Anglican priests that are married.

There are some people, unknown reasons to me, that have homosexual orientations. Those that are priests that have those orientations are asked to be celibate like those priests that are heterosexual in orientation.

53

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

[/quote]

Chris, you don’t know who Father Corapi is? I find that genuinely surprising. You are in for quite the treat. [/quote]
A little hard to believe if he is as Catholic as he says he is.
I’ve been to Corapi seminaries its funny how bhe basically glorifies cocaine/thug lifestyle and amuses uptight middle aged Catholics.[/quote]

I don’t know it all. I’ve been Baptized since I was a month old, I have been in full communion since 5 months ago…

I’ll have to check him out, but just because I’m Catholic doesn’t mean I know every famous Catholic priest.

54

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

[/quote]

Chris, you don’t know who Father Corapi is? I find that genuinely surprising. You are in for quite the treat. [/quote]
A little hard to believe if he is as Catholic as he says he is.
I’ve been to Corapi seminaries its funny how bhe basically glorifies cocaine/thug lifestyle and amuses uptight middle aged Catholics.[/quote]

I don’t know it all. I’ve been Baptized since I was a month old, I have been in full communion since 5 months ago…

I’ll have to check him out, but just because I’m Catholic doesn’t mean I know every famous Catholic priest.[/quote]

Rohnyn you have not exactly demonstrated a stunning understanding of what the Catholic Church is about, yourself. The fact that you would imply that Chris, of all people, does not know his shit, is laughable.

And you still have yet to address my prior two posts.

55

I guess I killz it.

56

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

[/quote]

Chris, you don’t know who Father Corapi is? I find that genuinely surprising. You are in for quite the treat. [/quote]
A little hard to believe if he is as Catholic as he says he is.
I’ve been to Corapi seminaries its funny how bhe basically glorifies cocaine/thug lifestyle and amuses uptight middle aged Catholics.[/quote]

I don’t know it all. I’ve been Baptized since I was a month old, I have been in full communion since 5 months ago…

I’ll have to check him out, but just because I’m Catholic doesn’t mean I know every famous Catholic priest.[/quote]

Rohnyn you have not exactly demonstrated a stunning understanding of what the Catholic Church is about, yourself. The fact that you would imply that Chris, of all people, does not know his shit, is laughable.

And you still have yet to address my prior two posts.

[/quote]

Your questions are loaded, they don’t further the argument.

57

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Rohnym

I am not sure who Father Corapi is, but I’ll research him a little.

[/quote]

Chris, you don’t know who Father Corapi is? I find that genuinely surprising. You are in for quite the treat. [/quote]
A little hard to believe if he is as Catholic as he says he is.
I’ve been to Corapi seminaries its funny how bhe basically glorifies cocaine/thug lifestyle and amuses uptight middle aged Catholics.[/quote]

I don’t know it all. I’ve been Baptized since I was a month old, I have been in full communion since 5 months ago…

I’ll have to check him out, but just because I’m Catholic doesn’t mean I know every famous Catholic priest.[/quote]

Rohnyn you have not exactly demonstrated a stunning understanding of what the Catholic Church is about, yourself. The fact that you would imply that Chris, of all people, does not know his shit, is laughable.

And you still have yet to address my prior two posts.

[/quote]

Your questions are loaded, they don’t further the argument.
[/quote]

What?

58

The Catholic Church is responsible for Western civilization as we know it.

59

[quote]kamui wrote:
as an atheist, i will still say we all have a lot to learned from the Catholic Church
because the Church is truly an expert at survival.

[/quote]

I would agree. They survive and protect their power base by instilling fear.

60

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
quote]

Just find it strange that there are all these ex-devout Catholics.[/quote]

They are also sometimes referred to as recovering catholics.