Let’s not flame eachother, I’d just like to get a sampling of what you all think of the Catholic Church, it’s role, it’s validity, it’s agenda etcetera.
I was a devout Catholic who recently quit and rejected pretty much all of it.
I’d like to see what other lifters think.
as an atheist, i will still say we all have a lot to learned from the Catholic Church
because the Church is truly an expert at survival.
in the Dark Ages, it managed to save and preserve most of the roman cultural heritage.
and now, it is the oldest surviving institution in the Western World.
even if we reject the faith itself, we should at least acknowledge that catholicism, as an ethic, is a major root of our civilization.
like confucianism is in the East.
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Let’s not flame eachother, I’d just like to get a sampling of what you all think of the Catholic Church, it’s role, it’s validity, it’s agenda etcetera.
I was a devout Catholic who recently quit and rejected pretty much all of it.
I’d like to see what other lifters think.[/quote]
Curious, how devout of a Catholic were you? But, I digress.
I give it two thumbs up. It has a very large role, which some people wish it didn’t. Its role goes into its validity, I think most of the reason why the Catholic Church has so many haters is because they see something in it that isn’t anywhere else.
The Catholic Church’s agenda is shifting right now, it is still taking care of the poor, the sick, fighting against abortion, but right now we are talking care of our internal problems (priests, going against dogma, &c.).
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Let’s not flame eachother, I’d just like to get a sampling of what you all think of the Catholic Church…[/quote] Awesome
[quote]…it’s role…[/quote] To be a Church
[quote] it’s validity[/quote] Don’t know, haven’t asked for their certification.
[quote] it’s agenda[/quote] Catholicism
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If you were a devout Catholic, I do not think you would have quit. But, I digress.
[/quote]
Any chance you could pull in the horns a bit? I’m not one for pulling punches or being all mealy-mouthed when it comes to my faith and politics, but you have no idea how devout the man was or wasn’t.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If you were a devout Catholic, I do not think you would have quit. But, I digress.
[/quote]
Any chance you could pull in the horns a bit? I’m not one for pulling punches or being all mealy-mouthed when it comes to my faith and politics, but you have no idea how devout the man was or wasn’t.[/quote]
Just find it strange that there are all these ex-devout Catholics.
I was a pro-Catholic, baptizd Catholic, confirmed Catholic. I wasn’t that conerned with the doctrine as much as I had grown up in it, and it seemed ‘right.’
I went to Catholic School for Middle School, and then Military school for high school, it wasn’t mandatory but I went to church then.
Then in my first year of college, I kept on going to church.
I stopped but was always supportive. Then got into partying alot and decided to go back and be a ‘real’ catholic.
Joined Catholic group, studied Catechism, Bible, Aquinas etcetera.
I reached the zenith of my belief when for maybe a month and a half just recently in the shower I ‘felt God’ as I looked at my forearms.
I thought alot, on whether I was going to become a real Catholic and not Shmatholic, as those Catholics but do not believe there are truly Angels and Demons, that the bible is basically literal and do not compromise their beliefs to modern society.
I broke it all down, and realized to be a ‘real’ Catholic, you have at some point start believing and turn off your brain to reason. I could go into a million reasons and the practicing Catholics could pull their lopsided justifications to save themselves from questioning it themselves, but that’s not the point of this thread.
As I researched further into critiques of the Church, I dismissed most, such as the ‘indigenous genocide’ bullshit…disease is their fault? Mesoamerican sacrified 7 year old girls, and this is some sort of atrocity that the Spanish destroyed it and the Church embraced it’s refugees, and in doing so granted all the non-hispanic natives and citizens RIGHTS under the empire…Anyways small rant.
The main thing is, the Church has been the Confucianism of the West but, it is now a decadent and perverse shadow of its former self. Most notable in it’s sex scandal. This scandal is not unique to the Catholic Church, but the fact is, the Church is supposed to be above these things. For the Pope himself to be so knee deep in pederast protection, then it’s pretty obvious to me it is a corrupt and dying institution at the end of its life.
All this is so ironic because when Priests have come out and said they were celibate but gay, they have been ejected from the Church, but when a Priests shoves his dick 6 inches up a young boy’s ass the church is all…nah nah he can stay…ya…Hypocrital and perverse?
This also made me not only doubt but then fully reject and ridicule the idea of the Pope as the only man in direct Communion with God.
These are my thoughts, I don’t really want to argue these points at all, I’m just telling this former Catholic’s view point. Aside from a 1000 viewpoints I’ve always had and had to oppress, come to, that are in opposition to the Church.
I’ll sit this one out for now
Do any of you have a high opinion of Stoicism?
For I am now the path of Stoa.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If you were a devout Catholic, I do not think you would have quit. But, I digress.
[/quote]
Any chance you could pull in the horns a bit? I’m not one for pulling punches or being all mealy-mouthed when it comes to my faith and politics, but you have no idea how devout the man was or wasn’t.[/quote]
Just find it strange that there are all these ex-devout Catholics.[/quote]
I don’t find it strange at all. A lot of people who were raised Catholic start to question everything they were taught growing up (just like most people in general) and they seem to have more questions than answers as they get older.
I would guess that 1/3 of the folks that go to my current church were raised Catholic and now go to non-denominational churches. Maybe even more than that. My parents as well as a lot of my friends parents were raised Catholic and ‘turned away’ from the Catholic church if you will.
I have no problem with Catholics and I’m friends with quite a few but it seems like it’s always the same universal issues that cause Catholics to become former Catholics. The fact that the Pope is supposedly infallible when there is so much pedophilic cover up and it has been directly tied to them. The fact that there are different candidates to be the Pope so if the Pope is really this perfect-like man/leader, then why do they have to vote for who it will be? Wouldn’t it be obvious at birth?
Also there is a lot less passion with Catholicism and more rules and procedures than other Christian denominations. My parents could tell you this better, but they have said that the slight disconnect between the Bible and what is actually taught by the priests and what not is just strange. To put it more bluntly: you can’t 100% believe the New Testament and 100% believe what Catholicism teaches. They don’t completely mesh. Either you believe Jesus died for your sins and was the only perfect person to ever walk this earth or you believe that all these Saints, and Mother Mary, and the Pope were/our all perfect as well. You really do have to choose the Bible believing mindset or the Catholic mindset. They’re not diametrically opposed but they also aren’t insync.
I think that Christians do have to thank the Catholic Church for helping Christianity survive. The ancient Church was all about codifying Jesus’s teachings and keeping records. With the Nag Hammadi find we’ve learned that there were lots of different sects of Christians and that Christianity in any form might not have been able to survive the Romans persecution of Christians. The first fathers of the Church were about making Christianity “catholic” as in universal (which is the meaning of catholic) which they knew would help Christianity survive. I think they started out meaning well and thought they were doing the right thing, but as the catholic church became the Catholic Church I think they were corrupted by the power they had. Even in the beginning they weren’t that nice to the Gnostic Christians and other Christian sects. The Church, as it is now, does need to have a serious “housecleaning” and re-evaluate themselves and who they want to be in the future.
Deism. 'nuf said.
I think alot of you are going to believe, I went to Atheism, Agnosticism or another Christian sect.
In truth, I believe in God, and am just more concerned with ethics, because stuff like after life, can’t be proven, but the assumptio all over is goodness will get you there so…why not just be good and ethical?
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I think alot of you are going to believe, I went to Atheism, Agnosticism or another Christian sect.
In truth, I believe in God, and am just more concerned with ethics, because stuff like after life, can’t be proven, but the assumptio all over is goodness will get you there so…why not just be good and ethical?[/quote]
If everyone strived to just be good and ethical, this world would definitely be a better place but as a Bible believing Christian, it’s by faith and not works that you’re saved. That’s the thing with being raised Catholic. It’s a lot of works and sayings and redundant prayers.
I can’t tell you what verse it is exactly but Jesus even says to stay away from having specific prayers that you continually repeat. That goes along with when he was chastising the Jews for praying out loud and letting everyone see. It’s not about symbolism and repetition. That died when Jesus died and rose again. We don’t live by Old Testament rules anymore.
Lastly, the whole confession to a priest has no legitimate place at all. Everyone on earth is equal in the site of God. Praying with other believers is a good thing but going to a priest to confess your sins and having him tell you to do so many mother marys and what not has no theological backing in real Christianity. My pastor isn’t “holier” than me because he was called in the ministry. God gives everyone different gifts and just because you were chosen for ministry doesn’t mean you’re on a higher level spiritually than those your preaching to so they should confess to you. That’s just plain and simple wrong.
[quote]Fleck wrote:
Either you believe Jesus died for your sins and was the only perfect person to ever walk this earth or you believe that all these Saints, and Mother Mary, and the Pope were/our all perfect as well. [/quote]
Yeah, I’m not doing the Catholic apologist thing-again-to any length, but I beg of you to start reading the cathecism. I’m not trying to be a smartass, honestly. It’s just that you’ve said a number of things foreign to Catholicism.
@fleck : you never were a catholic, right?
I was never personally catholic, no. My dad’s sitting right next to me watching football and my mom’s in the other room, and both of them were raised by strict catholics until the day they left home. I’m talking to him right now and he said he was always made to go to confession and was always told to say a certain number of hail mary’s among other things. They both said the priest would make them say 20 hail mary’s and 10 of this and that.
My good friend is also a devout catholic who goes to Marquette in Milwaukee and we have a lot of debates and nothing I’ve said on here has not been told to me by him as well. There’s a lot of rituals, a lot of repetitive prayers. I don’t see how the stuff I’ve said is foreign to catholicism since every catholic I’m familiar with has stated to me what I’ve said on here.
[quote]Fleck wrote:
There’s a lot of rituals, a lot of repetitive prayers. I don’t see how the stuff I’ve said is foreign to catholicism since every catholic I’m familiar with has stated to me what I’ve said on here. [/quote]
The foreign comment was with your earlier post in mind. As far as a ban on ‘repetitive prayers,’ I’d double check that verse, Matthew 6:7-8, you’re hung up on. It doesn’t mean what you’ve been told it means. For anything else check out a number of Catholic sites. Or, an online cathecism.
[quote]Fleck wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If you were a devout Catholic, I do not think you would have quit. But, I digress.
[/quote]
Any chance you could pull in the horns a bit? I’m not one for pulling punches or being all mealy-mouthed when it comes to my faith and politics, but you have no idea how devout the man was or wasn’t.[/quote]
Just find it strange that there are all these ex-devout Catholics.[/quote]
I don’t find it strange at all. A lot of people who were raised Catholic start to question everything they were taught growing up (just like most people in general) and they seem to have more questions than answers as they get older.
I would guess that 1/3 of the folks that go to my current church were raised Catholic and now go to non-denominational churches. Maybe even more than that. My parents as well as a lot of my friends parents were raised Catholic and ‘turned away’ from the Catholic church if you will.
I have no problem with Catholics and I’m friends with quite a few but it seems like it’s always the same universal issues that cause Catholics to become former Catholics. The fact that the Pope is supposedly infallible when there is so much pedophilic cover up and it has been directly tied to them. The fact that there are different candidates to be the Pope so if the Pope is really this perfect-like man/leader, then why do they have to vote for who it will be? Wouldn’t it be obvious at birth?
Also there is a lot less passion with Catholicism and more rules and procedures than other Christian denominations. My parents could tell you this better, but they have said that the slight disconnect between the Bible and what is actually taught by the priests and what not is just strange. To put it more bluntly: you can’t 100% believe the New Testament and 100% believe what Catholicism teaches. They don’t completely mesh. Either you believe Jesus died for your sins and was the only perfect person to ever walk this earth or you believe that all these Saints, and Mother Mary, and the Pope were/our all perfect as well. You really do have to choose the Bible believing mindset or the Catholic mindset. They’re not diametrically opposed but they also aren’t insync.
[/quote]
For the sake of Sloth, and because he asked me to cool it. I’ll just point out if that is the reason why people leave the Catholic Church, it is because they are not educated. That is fault of the priests and those that teach the priests. I’ll leave speculation and apologetic posts for other threads.
@Fleck, I do not want you to take this the wrong way. I think your parents may not be explaining what the Catholic Church actually teaches.
@Grny The Catholic Church does need to do some house cleaning; however, I do not think that most people have the same opinion of what needs to be done as what the Catholic Church needs.
As well, I have some opinions of what the Catholic Church should start doing. I think the Catholic Church should start having more folks with charisma in the pulpit. I think the all around seminary process needs to be stricter to weed out those unfit to be priests. I think the laity need to start being more friendly. I think more folks need to become apologist and teach folks about the faith.
There is other things, but those four are some things that the Catholic Church that I think needs to change.