Case for Vegetarianism

[michael2507]

[quote]DPH wrote:

I used wikipedia to look it up also …quinoa sounds like a great product …wonder why it hasn’t been mass marketed (maybe it tastes like sour dried bird shit or something)?[/quote]

Tastewise, it is not that bad, just a little weird at first. I usually add some frozen berries and dump a protein shake over it.

[quote]also, I wonder how nutrient dense it is? it may be difficult to eat 7 lbs. of quinoa to get more than 100 grams of quality protein in a day…I’d like to see some non-baised studies done on it.
[/quote]
100g of quinoa has

343 kcal
13,80 g protein
5,00 g fat (2,60 g polyunsaturated)
60,80 g carbs
4,40 g fiber

(taken from a German site on wholefood)

As I shoot for approximately 300 g of protein a day, that would equal around 2.2 kg (4.8 lbs) of quinoa.

[storey420]

[quote]DPH wrote:
storey420 wrote:
DPH wrote:
panterarosa wrote:
A very interesting (and amusing) argument! As usual with this topic, the arguments are far more emotional than logical.

All moral and ethical reasoning aside, the case for vegetarianism can be a good one. And yes - for strength and power athletes too.

From my own experience (fourteen of thirty years vegetarian), I know that it is possible to be strong. I deadlift just under three times my body weight. No supplements, no drugs. By no means World Class, but that has never been my focus. I can also run a half-marathon in under 90 minutes.

Some points to consider:

1. Vegetables can be a very good source of protein too. Quinoa, for example, has an amino acid profile that is considered close to ideal (similar to that of milk).

actually most vegtables are poor sources of protein…and what the fuck is quinoa? certainly isn’t a common vegtable.

2. Vegetables are far more easily and quickly digested, and can therefore be eaten more regularly, and in greater quantities.

no vegetables are NOT far more easily and quickly digested…I have a sister-in-law that had to have over half of her large intestines removed and she can no longer eat most vegetables…her doctors forbid it…in fact there are many vegetables that humans can’t digest at all…

3. Vegetables contain large amounts of vitamins and minerals for nervous system development. Very important - after all - what is responsible for producing muscular contraction?

do you even know what’s responsible for muscular contraction?

4. Vegetables are high in energy.

all vegetables are high in energy? you mean like lettuce? truth is vegetables usually have few calories…calories = energy dipshit…

Historical and scientific evidence seems to suggest that we have adapted, and readapted, to various dietary demands placed on us over the millenia. The same evidence suggests that we are built for a diet primarily of vegetable matter, but perhaps with small amounts of eggs, fish, game, etc.

only partially true…humans seem to function best on a combination of varied vegetables, fruits, and lean meats…the bulk of our calories not coming from vegetables though…

This is supported statistically by the fact that diets high in animal produce lead to higher instances of virtually all illnesses, including cancers.

what a load of crap! vegetarians are largly malnutritioned…malnutriton leads to a plethora of illnesses, including cancers…

For reasons of vitality and longevity, I would encourage everyone to consider a diet that is low in animal produce.

that’s because you don’t know shit about nutrition…

However, at the end of the day it is a matter of personal choice. On a final note, however, I can say confidently that vegetarians are at no disadvantage.

vegetarians are at a large disadvantage nutritionally…bunch of annoying anemic fuckers…every vegan I’ve every seen looked like a complete sack of shit!

look man…people need well balanced diets…they should be getting plent of fruits and vegetables, but also lean healthy sources of complete protein like chicken, fish, eggs, ect…

This goes down as dipshit reply of the day. You’ve gotta love someone with as pointless, uninformed replies as this finishing the whole rant up with " you don’t know shit about nutrition" HA!

pointless, uniformed? please feel free to refute any of my points with un-biased scientific literature…

should people not be getting plenty of fruits and vegetables, but also lean healthy sources of complete protein like chicken, fish, eggs, ect…

who knows…maybe your impressive wisdom will convert me to veganism?[/quote]

First off let me say that I am in no way trying to convert anyone to veganism. I love meat in all shapes and sizes but I can still recognize that there is a problem with the commercial meat industry as we know it and that yes there are some consequences to eating a majority meat diet. But no, I have no need to refute any of your points with un-biased scientific literature seeing as how you did not do the same. I was merely pointing out that here you go telling him that he is full of shit and all your replies to each point were heaping piles of steaming shit. But I will take each point you made and go over that.

[storey420]

Some points to consider:

1. Vegetables can be a very good source of protein too. Quinoa, for example, has an amino acid profile that is considered close to ideal (similar to that of milk).

actually most vegtables are poor sources of protein…and what the fuck is quinoa? certainly isn’t a common vegtable.

2. Vegetables are far more easily and quickly digested, and can therefore be eaten more regularly, and in greater quantities.

no vegetables are NOT far more easily and quickly digested…I have a sister-in-law that had to have over half of her large intestines removed and she can no longer eat most vegetables…her doctors forbid it…in fact there are many vegetables that humans can’t digest at all…

3. Vegetables contain large amounts of vitamins and minerals for nervous system development. Very important - after all - what is responsible for producing muscular contraction?

do you even know what’s responsible for muscular contraction?

4. Vegetables are high in energy.

all vegetables are high in energy? you mean like lettuce? truth is vegetables usually have few calories…calories = energy dipshit…

Historical and scientific evidence seems to suggest that we have adapted, and readapted, to various dietary demands placed on us over the millenia. The same evidence suggests that we are built for a diet primarily of vegetable matter, but perhaps with small amounts of eggs, fish, game, etc.

only partially true…humans seem to function best on a combination of varied vegetables, fruits, and lean meats…the bulk of our calories not coming from vegetables though…

This is supported statistically by the fact that diets high in animal produce lead to higher instances of virtually all illnesses, including cancers.

what a load of crap! vegetarians are largly malnutritioned…malnutriton leads to a plethora of illnesses, including cancers…

For reasons of vitality and longevity, I would encourage everyone to consider a diet that is low in animal produce.

that’s because you don’t know shit about nutrition…

However, at the end of the day it is a matter of personal choice. On a final note, however, I can say confidently that vegetarians are at no disadvantage.

vegetarians are at a large disadvantage nutritionally…bunch of annoying anemic fuckers…every vegan I’ve every seen looked like a complete sack of shit!

look man…people need well balanced diets…they should be getting plent of fruits and vegetables, but also lean healthy sources of complete protein like chicken, fish, eggs, ect…

This goes down as dipshit reply of the day. You’ve gotta love someone with as pointless, uninformed replies as this finishing the whole rant up with " you don’t know shit about nutrition" HA!

pointless, uniformed? please feel free to refute any of my points with un-biased scientific literature…

should people not be getting plenty of fruits and vegetables, but also lean healthy sources of complete protein like chicken, fish, eggs, ect…

who knows…maybe your impressive wisdom will convert me to veganism?[/quote]

1. I’m glad you found out what quinoa is, a grain actually. But there are vegetables that have a good protein content like broccoli but mushrooms are the real winners when it comes to protein content. Quinoa can taste great if you use a little creativity.

2. While I have sympathy for your sister and what the medical community has done to her, that story has no bearing. What are these brilliant doctors telling her to do for fibrous bulk, ya know so she doesn’t have to go back and have more of her intestines removed. I could write a whole nother thread about this and how this is absolutely ludicrous that someone would have a portion of their intestines removed. There are several natural options that can help and ultimately cutting a chunk of your body out doesn’t do anything to address what caused this in the first place.

3. Answer your own question before you challenge him

4. This is awesome logic at work. I think everyone here would agree that eating a plate of vegetables has more “energy” to offer than a plate of donuts and please don’t get into semantics about the sugar and calories and insulin spiking recovery, etc.

The main thing that set me off in your post is that this guy prefaced his statement with " for reasons of health and longevity" to eat a smaller amount of your food from animal produce. Most texts I’ve read for LONGEVITY encourage this. We’re not talking about J.T. Swole’s Guide to Getting Hyooge. We’re talking about longevity and internal/overall health.

[DPH]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
2. While I have sympathy for your sister and what the medical community has done to her, that story has no bearing. What are these brilliant doctors telling her to do for fibrous bulk, ya know so she doesn’t have to go back and have more of her intestines removed. I could write a whole nother thread about this and how this is absolutely ludicrous that someone would have a portion of their intestines removed. There are several natural options that can help and ultimately cutting a chunk of your body out doesn’t do anything to address what caused this in the first place.
[/quote]

actually it’s my sister-in-law…the reason her a major portion of her large intestines were removed is because she had cancer…all other options at removing the cancer had failed …removing them was a last hope that actually worked…

she can no longer have fibrous bulk because the part of her intestines that mostly deal with that are now gone…she now can only eat easily digestable foods…which exclude most vegetables…fibrous vegetables are impossible for her to digest…oddly her doctors are fine with her eating most meats…go figure…

3. Answer your own question before you challenge him

I challenged him because his assumptions are crap…

4. This is awesome logic at work. I think everyone here would agree that eating a plate of vegetables has more “energy” to offer than a plate of donuts and please don’t get into semantics about the sugar and calories and insulin spiking recovery, etc.

calories = energy…there is NO way of getting around this…a plate full of vegetables that amount to 100 calories has less ‘energy’ to offer than a plate full of steak that amounts to 500 calories…intuitive ‘energy’ doesn’t mean shit…

[quote]
The main thing that set me off in your post is that this guy prefaced his statement with " for reasons of health and longevity" to eat a smaller amount of your food from animal produce. Most texts I’ve read for LONGEVITY encourage this. We’re not talking about J.T. Swole’s Guide to Getting Hyooge. We’re talking about longevity and internal/overall health. [/quote]

people need to eat OPTIMAL amounts of meat, not ‘smaller’ amounts…

did you happen to read ToShinDo’s post above…he quoted information that MORE meat could aid in longevity, not ‘smaller amounts’…

P.S. you’ve managed to discredit none of my points…good job!

[spamme]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I could write a whole nother thread about this and how this is absolutely ludicrous that someone would have a portion of their intestines removed. There are several natural options that can help and ultimately cutting a chunk of your body out doesn’t do anything to address what caused this in the first place.
[/quote]

If the people who think like this would practice what they preach, when they get a life threatening illness such as colonic cancer (and news flash vegetarians get it too), or a life threatening bowel obstruction, etc.; Then the following trend would be reversed.

Thanks to medical science and overregulation by government, now all of the weak dumb people who usually would have killed themselves off are now breeding and living until the age of 103.

As you can see, the problem is longer living dumb people.

[storey420]

[quote]DPH wrote:
storey420 wrote:
2. While I have sympathy for your sister and what the medical community has done to her, that story has no bearing. What are these brilliant doctors telling her to do for fibrous bulk, ya know so she doesn’t have to go back and have more of her intestines removed. I could write a whole nother thread about this and how this is absolutely ludicrous that someone would have a portion of their intestines removed. There are several natural options that can help and ultimately cutting a chunk of your body out doesn’t do anything to address what caused this in the first place.

actually it’s my sister-in-law…the reason her a major portion of her large intestines were removed is because she had cancer…all other options at removing the cancer had failed …removing them was a last hope that actually worked…

she can no longer have fibrous bulk because the part of her intestines that mostly deal with that are now gone…she now can only eat easily digestable foods…which exclude most vegetables…fibrous vegetables are impossible for her to digest…oddly her doctors are fine with her eating most meats…go figure…

3. Answer your own question before you challenge him

I challenged him because his assumptions are crap…

4. This is awesome logic at work. I think everyone here would agree that eating a plate of vegetables has more “energy” to offer than a plate of donuts and please don’t get into semantics about the sugar and calories and insulin spiking recovery, etc.

calories = energy…there is NO way of getting around this…a plate full of vegetables that amount to 100 calories has less ‘energy’ to offer than a plate full of steak that amounts to 500 calories…intuitive ‘energy’ doesn’t mean shit…

The main thing that set me off in your post is that this guy prefaced his statement with " for reasons of health and longevity" to eat a smaller amount of your food from animal produce. Most texts I’ve read for LONGEVITY encourage this. We’re not talking about J.T. Swole’s Guide to Getting Hyooge. We’re talking about longevity and internal/overall health.

people need to eat OPTIMAL amounts of meat, not ‘smaller’ amounts…

did you happen to read ToShinDo’s post above…he quoted information that MORE meat could aid in longevity, not ‘smaller amounts’…

P.S. you’ve managed to discredit none of my points…good job![/quote]

Umm… not realy concerned about discrediting your points–there is no credit in them that was my point. You say you challenged him because his assumptions are crap. How so? Didn’t he preface the post by saying that is was from his personal experience? Are you saying the assumptions he drew from his own personal experience are crap? That is very open minded of you.
OK let’s agree–a 500 calorie plate of vegetables is the same as 500 cal of meat which is the same of 500 calories of candy bars. Try eating all three seperately then perform some kind of energy expending activity throughout the day. See what you think about the energy value of certain foods compared to others.
I agree people need to eat optimal amounts of meat in their diet. Unlike your closed minded self, I can see that optimal could mean smaller, larger, or no amounts.
As far as ToShinDo’s post(which I might ad was pretty informative)–come on we are not talking about eating meat like Inuits. We are talking, when it comes to longevity, that the commercial meat that the majority of Americans probably overeat, could be reduced to help out their health. Big difference between eating raw fish and wild game and working outdoors all day and cruising the grocery store to get mega cans of meat chili with cheese dogs in the can!

[storey420]

[quote]spamme wrote:
storey420 wrote:
I could write a whole nother thread about this and how this is absolutely ludicrous that someone would have a portion of their intestines removed. There are several natural options that can help and ultimately cutting a chunk of your body out doesn’t do anything to address what caused this in the first place.

If the people who think like this would practice what they preach, when they get a life threatening illness such as colonic cancer (and news flash vegetarians get it too), or a life threatening bowel obstruction, etc.; Then the following trend would be reversed.

[/quote]

Not sure if I get you here. The people that I see that understand these other natural options are trying to practice what they preach and change their lifestyles. Or if you are referring to me I can 100% emphatically tell you I will never get cancer of the colon because I do understand where the disease starts and do take the necessary care to prevent that kind of illness.

[DPH]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Umm… not realy concerned about discrediting your points
[/quote]

well…you do seem concerned with discrediting my points…you just haven’t been able to do it yet…

–there is no credit in them that was my point.

and I challenged you to prove that there is no credit and you haven’t…

You say you challenged him because his assumptions are crap. How so? Didn’t he preface the post by saying that is was from his personal experience? Are you saying the assumptions he drew from his own personal experience are crap?

yes…seems you finally understand one of my points…

OK let’s agree–a 500 calorie plate of vegetables is the same as 500 cal of meat which is the same of 500 calories of candy bars. Try eating all three seperately then perform some kind of energy expending activity throughout the day. See what you think about the energy value of certain foods compared to others.

this is not the argument…

the original claim was “Vegetables are high in energy”…

no, vegetables are NOT high in energy (calories)…a pound of meat will in almost all cases have FAR more calories (energy) than a pound of vegetables…

how you feel after eating a pound of meat or a pound of vegetables is irrelevant to the argument…

I agree people need to eat optimal amounts of meat in their diet. Unlike your closed minded self, I can see that optimal could mean smaller, larger, or no amounts.

actually…we seem to be in agreement with this issue…optimal could mean more meat for some, less meat for others…

the original argument only called for less meat for everyone though…which I (and you too apparently) disagree with…

[quote]
As far as ToShinDo’s post(which I might ad was pretty informative)–come on we are not talking about eating meat like Inuits. We are talking, when it comes to longevity, that the commercial meat that the majority of Americans probably overeat, could be reduced to help out their health. Big difference between eating raw fish and wild game and working outdoors all day and cruising the grocery store to get mega cans of meat chili with cheese dogs in the can![/quote]

you are attempting to create a straw man argument here…

I in NO WAY was encourageing anyone to eat more chili with cheese dogs or trying to say that chili with cheese dogs was what people should be eating for optimal health…

finally…I’ll quote myself here "people need well balanced diets…they should be getting plenty of fruits and vegetables, but also lean healthy sources of complete protein like chicken, fish, eggs, ect… "

to which you claimed was pointless and uninformed…which part of my nutritional claim above is pointless and uninformed?

[DPH]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I can 100% emphatically tell you I will never get cancer of the colon because I do understand where the disease starts and do take the necessary care to prevent that kind of illness.[/quote]

although it certainly seems to help if you take good care of yourself…
it has been explained to me by numerous different doctors that there is a very large genetic component to getting cancer (even colon cancer)…it is possible that you could do everything right nutritionally and lifestyle wise and still get cancer…

my sister-in-law that got colon cancer was an ovo-lacto vegetarian before she was diagnosed with the disease…

ain’t life a bitch!

[panterarosa]

Based on your response to my original input, I’m not sure why I’m still entertaining this argument. I suppose I feel that others may still get something out of it.

I’d like to clarify a few more points:

1. When I referred to ‘vegetables’, a meant to refer to vegetable matter. That is, all foods that are derived from non-animal sources (i.e. vegetables, fungi, fruit, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds). After all, this discussion is about vegetarian diet, and it seems a logical distinction.

2. Vegetables (vegetable matter) can be very good sources of protein. They are generally incomplete sources of protein (do not have the complete compliment of essential amino acids) but are often rich with the protein they contain.

From my cupboard (I included these in the absence of one of my nutrition books):
Raisin bread 9.3%
Brown lentils 6.8%
Lima beans 8.9%
Brown rice 7.3%

It is not hard to see how one could receive roughly 30g of protein (the estimated maximum it is said the body can absorb from a single meal - source unknown) from these sources.

3. What amino acids you do not receive from one source can be received through another. For maximum benefit, foods of different types can be combined to provide a close-to-ideal amino acid profile (commonly referred to as food combining). A couple of plant sources contain appreciable amounts of all of the essential amino acids. As previously mentioned, quinoa (I swear by it, as does my Peruvian mother-in-law), and to a lesser degree, soy.

4. Vegetables (I mean vegetable matter) are high in energy. No, not all vegetables. But grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, and many root vegetables are excellent sources of energy. They vary enormously due to the types/quantity of the macronutrients (carbohydrate, fat, and protein). The best sources are those high in what used to be referred to as complex carbohydrate (e.g. wheat), and fat (e.g. all nuts and seeds).

5. Vegetables are more easily digested than animal produce. Yes, certain fibrous components of vegetables cannot be digested; and yes, this makes some vegetable matter completely undigestible. Food combining is based around the fact that different foods have different rates of digestion. On one end of the scale you have fruits and vegetables, and on the other, coarser meats. Somewhere in between are nuts, legumes, dairy, eggs, fish etc.

6. Your sister-in-law’s situation is unusual. My grandfather died (at the age of 51) of bowel cancer. Before he did, he was told not to eat any meats or dairy. This is typical. My father, in his early 40s, began to suffer the same serious symptoms as his father did before he was diagnosed with cancer. He became vegetarian, and the symptoms went away forever. He is now 58, and very healthy.

7. The statistics for the relationship between illnesses (especially cancers) and diets high in animal produce are well-documented. Enquire with your local statistics beureau or anti-cancer organisation.

8. Umm, do I even bother mentioning this one? The nervous system is responsible for the contraction of muscle fibres. If you want to know more, look up ‘motor unit’ in the dictionary.

9. Vegetarians can be healthy and unhealthy, just as can their omnivorous counterparts. Whether vegetarian or not, health depends upon sensible and balanced dietary practice. Some knowledge of dietary requirement is required in both instances. Health, strength and power are completely independent of a persons choice to eat meat, or otherwise.

Perhaps I don’t know shit about nutrition. Perhaps my position as a national-level strength and conditioning coach, and lecturer in sport science (yes, including sport nutrition) with the NSCA is undeserved. It comforts me to know that when I choose to resign, I can refer them to you…

[DPH]

[quote]panterarosa wrote:
Based on your response to my original input, I’m not sure why I’m still entertaining this argument. I suppose I feel that others may still get something out of it.

I’d like to clarify a few more points:

1. When I referred to ‘vegetables’, a meant to refer to vegetable matter. That is, all foods that are derived from non-animal sources (i.e. vegetables, fungi, fruit, legumes, grains, nuts and seeds). After all, this discussion is about vegetarian diet, and it seems a logical distinction.
   [/quote]

perhaps my public education where the food pyramid was shoved down my throat has caused me to always make a distinction between vegetables and legumes, grains, oats, nuts, seeds, ect…after all, I would hardly consider eating a plate full of seven pancakes as getting all seven servings of vegetables I need in a day…

2. Vegetables (vegetable matter) can be very good sources of protein. They are generally incomplete sources of protein (do not have the complete compliment of essential amino acids) but are often rich with the protein they contain.

From my cupboard (I included these in the absence of one of my nutrition books):
Raisin bread 9.3%
Brown lentils 6.8%
Lima beans 8.9%
Brown rice 7.3%

It is not hard to see how one could receive roughly 30g of protein (the estimated maximum it is said the body can absorb from a single meal - source unknown) from these sources.

yes, vegetables are generally imcomplete sources of protein thereby makeing them not very good sources of protein…I don’t even count the low quantities of protein in the vegetables I eat in a day in my total protein requirements…

3. What amino acids you do not receive from one source can be received through another. For maximum benefit, foods of different types can be combined to provide a close-to-ideal amino acid profile (commonly referred to as food combining). A couple of plant sources contain appreciable amounts of all of the essential amino acids. As previously mentioned, quinoa (I swear by it, as does my Peruvian mother-in-law), and to a lesser degree, soy.

quinoa looks like a very promissing product but you can keep your soy to yourself…

4. Vegetables (I mean vegetable matter) are high in energy. No, not all vegetables. But grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, and many root vegetables are excellent sources of energy. They vary enormously due to the types/quantity of the macronutrients (carbohydrate, fat, and protein). The best sources are those high in what used to be referred to as complex carbohydrate (e.g. wheat), and fat (e.g. all nuts and seeds).

as I have stated above I do not count grain products etc. as vegetables…I do eat large quantities of them for calories everyday though…but vegetables and fruits I count differently from the ‘breads and cerials’ group…

5. Vegetables are more easily digested than animal produce. Yes, certain fibrous components of vegetables cannot be digested; and yes, this makes some vegetable matter completely undigestible. Food combining is based around the fact that different foods have different rates of digestion. On one end of the scale you have fruits and vegetables, and on the other, coarser meats. Somewhere in between are nuts, legumes, dairy, eggs, fish etc.

we agree on this…great!

6. Your sister-in-law’s situation is unusual. My grandfather died (at the age of 51) of bowel cancer. Before he did, he was told not to eat any meats or dairy. This is typical. My father, in his early 40s, began to suffer the same serious symptoms as his father did before he was diagnosed with cancer. He became vegetarian, and the symptoms went away forever. He is now 58, and very healthy.

how the hell do you know my sister-in-law’s situation is unusual …are you a practising colon cancer specialist? probably not…

however, I’m glad to hear your pop is doing well…

millions of people eat sensible quantities of meats every day and do not get cancer from them…in fact there are studies that show eating meats can help fight against life threatening diseases…(case in point, the inuit study above)

7. The statistics for the relationship between illnesses (especially cancers) and diets high in animal produce are well-documented. Enquire with your local statistics beureau or anti-cancer organisation.

and yet the inuit study and others show that diets that are high in animal produce are very healty…

8. Umm, do I even bother mentioning this one? The nervous system is responsible for the contraction of muscle fibres. If you want to know more, look up ‘motor
   unit’ in the dictionary.

and just how does being a vegetarian help the nervous system contract muscle fibers better than being an omnivor? you’ve given no answer at all…

9. Vegetarians can be healthy and unhealthy, just as can their omnivorous counterparts. Whether vegetarian or not, health depends upon sensible and balanced dietary practice. Some knowledge of dietary requirement is required in both instances. Health, strength and power are completely independent of a persons choice to eat meat, or otherwise.

very true…

[quote]
Perhaps I don’t know shit about nutrition. Perhaps my position as a national-level strength and conditioning coach, and lecturer in sport science (yes, including sport nutrition) with the NSCA is undeserved. It comforts me to know that when I choose to resign, I can refer them to you…[/quote]

am I supposed to be impressed? sorry…I’m not…most of the people that I’ve meet that were associated with NSCA were well behind the cutting edge of sports science…NSCA seems to ‘play it safe’ when it comes to sports science…but gee, maybe some day I too could become a highly-respected NSCA Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist…what a fucking joke!

or am I supposed to be impressed by your national sponsor GNC? they’re crap also…

the truth is panterarosa, sports science in an incredibly inexact field of study…you can find ten ‘experts’ that all agree on something and then find another ten ‘experts’ that completely disagree with the first tens conclusions …

nice try though…trying to sneak in a bogus argument by authority (argumentum ad verecundiam) on me…

[storey420]

[quote]DPH wrote:
storey420 wrote:
I can 100% emphatically tell you I will never get cancer of the colon because I do understand where the disease starts and do take the necessary care to prevent that kind of illness.

although it certainly seems to help if you take good care of yourself…
it has been explained to me by numerous different doctors that there is a very large genetic component to getting cancer (even colon cancer)…it is possible that you could do everything right nutritionally and lifestyle wise and still get cancer…

my sister-in-law that got colon cancer was an ovo-lacto vegetarian before she was diagnosed with the disease…

ain’t life a bitch![/quote]

This is one where we will have to agree to disagree. I work in the holistic health field. I have personally helped in dealing with a clinic that has over 1,000( and counting) cancer reversal cases–without drug therapies of any kind.

In fact I have also personally seen five alzheimer’s reversals, 2 parkinson’s, and three people get out of wheelchairs that had been in them five years or more. The one thing in common that all these people had is that they had tried the traditional medical route until they were told either there was nothing else they could do, nothing they could do except cut it out, their condition is genetic.

The doc I work for personally believes that less than 2% of what doctors are telling people is genetic actually is. Rather these things are viral expressions from viral genes that exist in your body from birth but are expressed from some kind of offense to the body (chemical exposure, heavy metals, etc.) We ahve the best emergency care in the world here in the US, but the chronic care is borderline insanity and would be funny if it hadn’t killed so many people thus far.

[storey420]

[quote]DPH wrote:
storey420 wrote:
I can 100% emphatically tell you I will never get cancer of the colon because I do understand where the disease starts and do take the necessary care to prevent that kind of illness.

although it certainly seems to help if you take good care of yourself…
it has been explained to me by numerous different doctors that there is a very large genetic component to getting cancer (even colon cancer)…it is possible that you could do everything right nutritionally and lifestyle wise and still get cancer…

my sister-in-law that got colon cancer was an ovo-lacto vegetarian before she was diagnosed with the disease…

ain’t life a bitch![/quote]

As far as the rest of the points I’m done with you. What I had a problem with was you hopping on and calling someone a dipshit with no knwledge of nutrition, when you yourself seem to exhibit those very same qualities. Hell you didn’t even know what quinoa is.

All you do seem to know is that because one study shows Inuits are healthy refutes any argument against possibly limiting commercial meat intake–as if the two had any relation. I already stated that I’m not willing to take the time to pull up studies for someone that can’t do the same. Unicorns are real–there now go and find me the scientific literature that defies that claim otherwise my points are valid cause I said so—that is your whole logic.

Also any training advice that you may post is bullshit. Doesn’t matter if it worked for you and you drew any conclusions from your training. Nope its bullshit cause I said so.

[DPH]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
This is one where we will have to agree to disagree. I work in the holistic health field. I have personally helped in dealing with a clinic that has over 1,000( and counting) cancer reversal cases–without drug therapies of any kind.

In fact I have also personally seen five alzheimer’s reversals, 2 parkinson’s, and three people get out of wheelchairs that had been in them five years or more. The one thing in common that all these people had is that they had tried the traditional medical route until they were told either there was nothing else they could do, nothing they could do except cut it out, their condition is genetic.

The doc I work for personally believes that less than 2% of what doctors are telling people is genetic actually is. Rather these things are viral expressions from viral genes that exist in your body from birth but are expressed from some kind of offense to the body (chemical exposure, heavy metals, etc.) We ahve the best emergency care in the world here in the US, but the chronic care is borderline insanity and would be funny if it hadn’t killed so many people thus far.
[/quote]

truthfully I have no idea if cancers are environmental or genetic or both…I was merely paroting what has been told to me by several doctors…so no need to agree to disagree…

the work that your clinic is doing seems awesome…I’m sure that my sister-in-law would have prefered to go the non-surgical route but she did the best she could do under the circumstances she was in at the time…

keep up the good work and I wish your patients many happy success stories in the future!

[DPH]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
As far as the rest of the points I’m done with you. What I had a problem with was you hopping on and calling someone a dipshit with no knwledge of nutrition, when you yourself seem to exhibit those very same qualities. Hell you didn’t even know what quinoa is.
[/quote]

is knowing what quinoa is required information to have any knowledge of nutrition? I guess I missed that part of nutrition training…

I suppose my aproach to balanced eating between the food groups also shows a serious lack of nutritional knowledge…

All you do seem to know is that because one study shows Inuits are healthy refutes any argument against possibly limiting commercial meat intake–as if the two had any relation.

all I seem to know? hmmm…I do know that numerous studies have shown that an omnivor diet is the best diet for humans, while vegetarian diets are lacking…

we’ve already agreed that OPTIMAL meat intake is best…panterarosa’s argument only addresses eating less meat with no mention of what is optimal for a unique individual…

I already stated that I’m not willing to take the time to pull up studies for someone that can’t do the same.

fair enough…

Unicorns are real–there now go and find me the scientific literature that defies that claim otherwise my points are valid cause I said so—that is your whole logic.

if all my points are as invalid as you are saying and you are unwilling to tell me exactly why then why should I feel that my claims have no merit?

personally I feel that a balanced diet that includes lean meat products is the best and you have shown me know reason to believe otherwise…

that’s my whole ‘logic’ as you would say…

Also any training advice that you may post is bullshit. Doesn’t matter if it worked for you and you drew any conclusions from your training. Nope its bullshit cause I said so.

perhaps so…I don’t claim to be an expert at anything…well except for my knack at pissing people off…I think I’m pretty damn good at that…

now go save some people at your clinic!

[Zap_Branigan]

I thought DPH did a good job debunking the vegan nonsense.

Don’t eat meat because it “putrifies” and is full of “toxins”. Give me a break.

[storey420]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I thought DPH did a good job debunking the vegan nonsense.

Don’t eat meat because it “putrifies” and is full of “toxins”. Give me a break.

[/quote]

Ummm meat can and does putrifies in the bowels when it goes undigested properly. Everyone you have ever known that has taken an antacid tablet after a meal with meat has had meat putrifying in their bowels. As far as full of toxins, come on Zap I hope you don’t think that commercial meat is pristine and clean, it is full of toxins period. The best we can do is try to eat clean sources of meat that is tested for those kind of contaminants. I am fully aware that when I eat out and have a steak that there are toxins in the meat but I make that occasional foible casue I like the taste. I’m not so blind as to say that there are no toxins in commercial meat.

[storey420]

DPH,

Fair enough. I did agree with your point of having a balanced diet for sure and that in general I think most people will fair better with an omnivorous diet. My main beef was with the attack on someone sharing a personal observation thats all.

[panterarosa]

As I mentioned, I was trying to distiguish between plant and animal sources, for the sake of the discussion. The dietary pyramid does not do this.

You may think that the protein in plant sources is useless, but that does not make it so. Have you ever tried training whilst living on a vegetarian diet? Can you speak from experience? Somehow I doubt it. Your responses suggest that you are far too narrow minded to consider the possibility, let alone do your research and put it into practice.

As for my qualification, I had already stated my points, based around fact. Your points, in contrast, amount to opinion and name-calling.

At the end of the day, my argument is not based on hypothesis. I have been practicing all that I preach for fourteen years with great success. During this time, I have had people tell me (to my face) that have been wrong, and that what I say I am doing is not possible. Am I secretly feasting on meats to attain the size and strength that I have? No. Well maybe, just maybe, I know something that these people don’t. Perhaps if they could put aside their egos, and their ideals that they hold so dear, they would learn something, and benefit from it as I have.

[ToShinDo]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Ummm meat can and does putrifies in the bowels when it goes undigested properly. Everyone you have ever known that has taken an antacid tablet after a meal with meat has had meat putrifying in their bowels. [/quote]

Putrification is where bacteria break down organic material. This happens all the time in one’s bowels, with almost every food, not just meat. That’s why they are there, they break down what we can’t, excreting vitamins and sometimes gas (hence the music in musical fruit). So saying that meat rots in your gut and other things like that is not really anything special, since most food rots in your gut, at least a little.