Case for Vegetarianism

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141

[quote]panterarosa wrote:
You may think that the protein in plant sources is useless, but that does not make it so. Have you ever tried training whilst living on a vegetarian diet? Can you speak from experience? Somehow I doubt it. Your responses suggest that you are far too narrow minded to consider the possibility, let alone do your research and put it into practice.
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I am doing quite well on an omnivor diet and firmly believe that a vegetarian diet is not in my best interest…I’ve never seen a vegetarian squat 1000 lbs ;)…in fact I’ve never seen a vegetarian lift much of anything…

but hey, if it’s working for you, that’s great…

you mean like ‘facts’ like this ‘historical and scientific evidence suggests that we are built for a diet primarily of vegetable matter’

come on…you can’t possilby believe this bullshit? what plants were cro-magnon hunter and gatherers eating during the harsh norther european winter months? there diets consisted almost exclusively on meat…

you have stated no facts at all…only YOUR opinion based on YOUR experience as a vegetarian…

but yes…it is my opinion and the opinion of the vast majority of the nutritional community (with plenty of scientific research to back it up) that an omnivor diet is best for humans…

man I was hoping that catch phrase would die…dammit!

no…your argument seems to be based on the results of one person…YOU…

success is relative…for all I know you may be one of those people that think a 365 bench and 545 squat are good lifts (they are not by the way)…why don’t you through out some of your training numbers? you might be able to impress me after all…

[quote]
During this time, I have had people tell me (to my face) that have been wrong, and that what I say I am doing is not possible. Am I secretly feasting on meats to attain the size and strength that I have? No. Well maybe, just maybe, I know something that these people don’t. Perhaps if they could put aside their egos, and their ideals that they hold so dear, they would learn something, and benefit from it as I have.[/quote]

perhaps…but you see, almost all of the top 100 meter sprinter, olympic weight lifters, powerlifters, etc. in the world are meat eaters…this leaves a pretty good track record for people to believe that eating approprtiate amounts of healthy lean meats is a good idea if you want to be a competative athlete (or just a semi-healthy couch potato)…

look, be a vegetarian all you want…just don’t be suprised why very few will accept your stance that ‘for reasons of vitality and longevity’ a vegetarian diet is better than an omnivorous one…

P.S. just as a joke…I think I’ll try to convince my wife tonight that we should eat pancakes in stead of vegetables because as you say…pancakes come from vegetable matter…for that matter so does maple syrup…think I’ll add that bit in too…my guess is she won’t buy it.

142

[quote]storey420 wrote:
As far as full of toxins, come on Zap I hope you don’t think that commercial meat is pristine and clean, it is full of toxins period. The best we can do is try to eat clean sources of meat that is tested for those kind of contaminants. [/quote]

Ok, this time I am just curious, (so no sarcasm). What are you defining as toxins in red meat? Things I am aware of are:

Some vegetables and fruits are contaminated with pesticides. Washing doesnt help much, as most are taken up inside the fruit. So the 12 Most Contaminated list below, it is suggested to buy organic=no pesticides.

Apples
Bell Peppers
Celery
Cherries
Imported Grapes
Nectarines
Peache
Pears
Potatoes
Red Raspberries
Spinach
Strawberries

(I like the govt stance on this, “any exposure risk by the pesticides is outweighed by the beneficial effect of the fruits/vegetables”)

When you cook vegetables, nitrites, mutagenic glycosides and heterocyclic amines are formed. These are known potent carcinogens. Two of sources (of thousands of articles on this are):

Beamand, J.A. et al, Effect of some cooked food mutagens on unscheduled DNA synthesis in cultured precision-cut rat, mouse and human liver slices. Food Chem. Toxicol. 1998 455-466.

Yoshida, D. et al, Formation of mutagens by heating foods and model systems. Environ. Health Perspect. 1986 / 67 / 55-58.

Meat when cooked as well, produces nitrites and HCA’s with same effects.

Of course you can avoid all that by eating raw meat, esp. organic (fed grain, no chemicals), but then risk other things. Or eating all raw vegetables, but then you miss some beneficial chemicals produces by heat.

So 2 questions.
Why pick on cooked meat, when cooked veggies have same carcinogens?

Are the endogenous carcinogens (nitrites, HCA’s, etc. caused by cooking and found in meats and veggies) what you are referring to as "toxins’? Or is it exogenous “toxins” antibiotics, growth hormone, corn feed fed to cattle (avoided by orgainic grain fed) and pesticides residues in veggies, that you are referring to? Or, other, I am just curious for own edification. Listing the chemicals would be appreciated.

143

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
storey420 wrote:
Ummm meat can and does putrifies in the bowels when it goes undigested properly. Everyone you have ever known that has taken an antacid tablet after a meal with meat has had meat putrifying in their bowels.

Putrification is where bacteria break down organic material. This happens all the time in one’s bowels, with almost every food, not just meat. That’s why they are there, they break down what we can’t, excreting vitamins and sometimes gas (hence the music in musical fruit). So saying that meat rots in your gut and other things like that is not really anything special, since most food rots in your gut, at least a little.

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And don’t forget the many “toxins” present on fruits, vegetables and grains.

The anti meat argument is silly.

Eating meat allowed us to evolve to what we are.

For the record the only time I need antacid is after eating tomato based products.