Carbs Cycling Experience

Nutrition
861

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

Wow it seems like you just finished cutting, how long did your bulk last? Mind outlining your cutting carb cycling plan? 1800 seems low to start off with, and I would think you’d just have low, high, and maybe medium days…not a refeed unless your talking more about a 6 day keto/1 day refeed type deal. [/quote]

My bulk/diet break lasted for about 6 weeks. The initial purpose was to eat around/above maintenance for a short period to reset my BMR a bit higher as my diet progress had stalled. My gym sessions ended up being so productive due to the higher calories that I extended it to a full on bulk. I’ve put some fat on and really been in vacation mode for the last two weeks where I’ve taken a break from the gym while traveling.

I plan on keeping my 4-day split routine but replacing two final exercises with 30-45 min SS cardio at the end. The carb cycle will be slightly different that the typical high/med/low.

I plan on having high carb days, low carb days, and zero carb days with no refeeds.

High - 275p/275c/50f ~2,700 cal
Low - 250p/150c/40f ~2,000 cal
Zero - 250p/0c/40f ~1,200 cal

I plan on keeping my food sources very clean this time around except para-workout where I’ll supplement with protein. Carb sources will be oatmeal, sweet potatoes, fruit/veggies, and dairy. Initially I’ll be going for 8 weeks in a mimi-competition with my brother who’s put on 30 lbs (a lot of that muscle), but is looking soft and wants to shred. If I’m not happy with two months of serious carb cycling I may extend it to the full 12 weeks.

862

Couple things:

#1: GetPumped340- how come no one has mentioned this. You’re 6’ 170 lbs 16% BF and you’re doing the GSD? What do you think Berardi’s advice to you would be?

#2: I’ve been doing a carb cycling approach as of the past 2 weeks. Didn’t really look into the diet approach just designed it on my own and the calcs are somewhat close.

Low Days: 125g carb 240g protein 3x wk
Medium Days: 180g carbs 250g protein 3x wk
High Days: 250g carbs 200g protein (after reading this thread, I’m going to raise my high day carbs wise) 1x wk

works out to around 2500-2700 cals/day

863

Phatkins: Did you just jump into the higher calories after cutting? Even though I still want to get leaner I’m considering going to higher calories for a little while before continuing but not sure if I want jump from my current 1800 calories to 2500+ with higher carbs too.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Couple things:

#1: GetPumped340- how come no one has mentioned this. You’re 6’ 170 lbs 16% BF and you’re doing the GSD? What do you think Berardi’s advice to you would be?

#2: I’ve been doing a carb cycling approach as of the past 2 weeks. Didn’t really look into the diet approach just designed it on my own and the calcs are somewhat close.

Low Days: 125g carb 240g protein 3x wk
Medium Days: 180g carbs 250g protein 3x wk
High Days: 250g carbs 200g protein (after reading this thread, I’m going to raise my high day carbs wise) 1x wk

works out to around 2500-2700 cals/day [/quote]

Are you trying to lose fat on that plan?

As for my stats…I’m 13% bodyfat and my weight came down a lot after an injury

864

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Phatkins: Did you just jump into the higher calories after cutting? Even though I still want to get leaner I’m considering going to higher calories for a little while before continuing but not sure if I want jump from my current 1800 calories to 2500+ with higher carbs too.

jehovasfitness wrote:
Couple things:

#1: GetPumped340- how come no one has mentioned this. You’re 6’ 170 lbs 16% BF and you’re doing the GSD? What do you think Berardi’s advice to you would be?

#2: I’ve been doing a carb cycling approach as of the past 2 weeks. Didn’t really look into the diet approach just designed it on my own and the calcs are somewhat close.

Low Days: 125g carb 240g protein 3x wk
Medium Days: 180g carbs 250g protein 3x wk
High Days: 250g carbs 200g protein (after reading this thread, I’m going to raise my high day carbs wise) 1x wk

works out to around 2500-2700 cals/day

Are you trying to lose fat on that plan?

As for my stats…I’m 13% bodyfat and my weight came down a lot after an injury[/quote]

Oh, ok gotcha on the new stats.

Yeah, using it for cutting.
I’m down 5.5 lbs in 2 weeks, which I’ll assume a couple of those is water loss from low carbs. I’ll be rechecking my body fat levels on Monday to confirm, but I’m getting some definition back in my abs so I’ll probably stick the course as is for now.

865

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Phatkins: Did you just jump into the higher calories after cutting? Even though I still want to get leaner I’m considering going to higher calories for a little while before continuing but not sure if I want jump from my current 1800 calories to 2500+ with higher carbs too.

[/quote]

Yessir, I was hungry :slight_smile: Have been eating 3,500-4,000 cals bud! Only way to bulk…

866

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Phatkins: Did you just jump into the higher calories after cutting? Even though I still want to get leaner I’m considering going to higher calories for a little while before continuing but not sure if I want jump from my current 1800 calories to 2500+ with higher carbs too.

Yessir, I was hungry :slight_smile: Have been eating 3,500-4,000 cals bud! Only way to bulk…[/quote]

Wow you jumped in that high right away? I’m not surprised you gained some fat then lol. What was your macro breakdown?

I think I’ll just take mine up to 2500 or so, may even just keep gaining instead of going back to a cut but I don’t know yet.

867

Macros I didn’t track that well. I made sure I was getting 2 g per lb of protein and 2-3 g cho per lb and didn’t really track fats bit some days my fats were over 100 g. It was fun dieting up for my trip to las Vegas and it paid off :wink:

868

Well I’m officially carb cycling again as of today. I did back and hams today and had a “high” day. I followed up my workout with 30 mins of SS cardio…which wasn’t as bad as it sounds, lol! Here’s how my macros break down (you can find my fitday account link in my profile):

284p/241.5c/61f (45/35/20)
2,679 cals

I’ll have 2 high days (back/hams and quads), 3 low days (arms/abs, shoulders/chest, and one weekend off day), and 2 zero carb days per week. I plan on adding 30-45 min cardio PWO. In order to avoid spamming the hell out of this thread, I’ll post weekly weight changes. Day 1 weight was 188. My 12 week goal is 25 lbs.

869

Getting Unshredded - Day 30 - 175lbs (weight at end of GSD 167lbs - change this week +2lbs)

Not too much to report this week. Now up 8lbs from quitting GSD and still looking lean. I’m still using the pulsing protocol on waking and usually around midday (whey hydrosylate and leucine).
Carb-wise I’m following a close variation of the Thibaudeau protocol by loading pre-workout with around 80g, certainly no more than 100g. Apart from some low GI fruit at breakfast, it’s P+F the rest of the way.

870

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Getting Unshredded - Day 30 - 175lbs (weight at end of GSD 167lbs - change this week +2lbs)

Not too much to report this week. Now up 8lbs from quitting GSD and still looking lean. I’m still using the pulsing protocol on waking and usually around midday (whey hydrosylate and leucine).
Carb-wise I’m following a close variation of the Thibaudeau protocol by loading pre-workout with around 80g, certainly no more than 100g. Apart from some low GI fruit at breakfast, it’s P+F the rest of the way.[/quote]

How much of each macro are you up to now?

Since coming off the “GSD” I’ve added about 40g of carbs on off days and 65g on workout days while taking away ~10g of fat while dropping 2 hours of cardio total for the week. After 2 weeks of that there was no real change so this last week I added 250 calories from protein to off days and 250 from P+C (adding another 25g of carbs) on workout days. Somehow I lost 1.5lb and it seems to be mostly muscle. This week I’m going to drop 10min. of cardio from each day while raising calories again by 230-300 from protein and carbs. I think my metabolism must have gotten pretty screwed from the ~1600 calories and high cardio during the CKD

871

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
How much of each macro are you up to now?

Since coming off the “GSD” I’ve added about 40g of carbs on off days and 65g on workout days while taking away ~10g of fat while dropping 2 hours of cardio total for the week. After 2 weeks of that there was no real change so this last week I added 250 calories from protein to off days and 250 from P+C (adding another 25g of carbs) on workout days. Somehow I lost 1.5lb and it seems to be mostly muscle. This week I’m going to drop 10min. of cardio from each day while raising calories again by 230-300 from protein and carbs. I think my metabolism must have gotten pretty screwed from the ~1600 calories and high cardio during the CKD[/quote]

I don’t really calorie count much these days. I know what breakfast yields, as I do the para-workout shakes and protein pulses. But the majority of my daily calories come from two large evening meals. Given they often comprise of things like oil, dressing, nuts and olives, I can’t be bothered weighing out every morsel. What I do know is that it’s approximately 40-50g protein per meal, with the carbs coming from green/white veggies only. They are also very high in good fats - which is making up the majority of the calories. Obviously if I can’t add lean mass, or am getting too fat, then I know I need to pay closer attention to exactly what I’m ingesting. So far I’m making progress without need for the kitchen scales every few hours.

I’ve also re-evalued my training - again! I felt that while the Gironda-style programme is excellent for high frequency progression and maintaining low body fat, it was incredibly hard to progress whether in terms of load or cutting rest intervals. I asked Thibaudeau for some advice and he stated while he thought Gironda training was effective, heavier load training was the way to go. Through some T-Nation research, I then got the idea of incorporating both though a pendulum periodization programme.

In summary, it’s still 3 on/1 off with the same exercises from the Gironda programme. But the intensity changes each week:
Week 1 - Gironda training, e.g. 8x8 short RIs
Week 2 - Clusters
Week 3 - Low rep strength training, e.g. doubles
Week 4 - Clusters
Week 5 - Gironda

I’m just about to start Week 3. So far so good but I think I’ll be in a better position to evaluate by the end of week 5. If I’m making good progress I will change all the exercises and commence another 5 week cycle.

872

Hello gents…week 1 is in the books. Needless to say, carb cycling really is the boss when it comes to losing fat, maintaining muscle and strength, and staying sane.

My first week I’m down 2.6 lbs and have set a PR dead lift. I am eating sensibly, only supplementing para-workout (protein, creatine), and feel fantastic. 11 more weeks should breeze by.

873

Hey guys, it’s been a while since anyone posted so I might be receiving an echo, echo ech…lol.

Anyways, on week 3 here and love the simplicity of a carb cycle diet. I’m never hungry and my weights are climbing in the gym daily!

I’m on track to lose 2 lbs a week up until mid-October when I set a 12 week maximum. A friend of mine did this same program and added a supplement called “Epol,” a prohormone for the last 4 weeks to aid in strength and muscle retention. He actually gained a few pounds of lean body mass during the last 4 weeks.

I currently am supplementing with fish oils, protein, creatine and glutamine. Out of curiosity, what supplements have you taken in conjunction with a carb cycling diet? I’ve used HOT-ROX Extreme during the V-Diet, but don’t feel the additional stimulants really make as big a difference as the diet itself for fat loss. I’ll stick to coffee for now, much cheaper lol!

I have a bottle of Carbolin 19-19 that I plan on taking for weeks 9-12…good idea?

874

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
Out of curiosity, what supplements have you taken in conjunction with a carb cycling diet? I’ve used HOT-ROX Extreme during the V-Diet, but don’t feel the additional stimulants really make as big a difference as the diet itself for fat loss. I’ll stick to coffee for now, much cheaper lol!

I have a bottle of Carbolin 19 that I plan on taking for weeks 9-12…good idea?[/quote]

Hi mate

Good to hear you’re keeping this thread alive! And well done on the continued progress.

I can’t say I’m a huge fan of additional supplementation while carb cycling/dieting. I think this is partly down to the fact I’ve invested quite a lot of cash recently on whey hydrosylate and casein hydrosylate to use where it’s needed most - para-workout, as well as some protein pulsing.

Apart from the workout window, fish oil is a must IMO - especially when fat-fighting. I do think it’s worth using products like HOT-ROX and Carbolin 19 if you can afford them. My philosophy is throw everything including the kitchen sink into a fat blitz then you have no excuses and should be fully motivated to succeed.

875

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
Hey guys, it’s been a while since anyone posted so I might be receiving an echo, echo ech…lol.

Anyways, on week 3 here and love the simplicity of a carb cycle diet. I’m never hungry and my weights are climbing in the gym daily!
[/quote]

I think carb cycling is great but it’s the last diet I’d say is “simple” lol. It takes more calculations and attention to detail than most other plans I can think of.

876

Well I’m extremely meticulous when it comes to counting calories and macronutrients. The simplicity arises in the food choices and knowing how much to eat. Intuitively, the diet makes sense too! You need carbs for energy and muscle glycogen replenishment. Otherwise they aren’t essential. Keep all other things constant (fat/pro) and you’re definitely eating at a caloric deficit when you don’t need the energy (off days). All diets are simple once you understand the concept of calories in < calories out.

877

Hey guys (and especially Elusive :slight_smile:

Can I get your take on something? A few years ago I ate low carb all week and then had a huge carb meal on the evening of every 5th day. Fat loss was painfully slow this way (8% BF drop in a year).

Then in 2008 I did 11 WEEKS of ZERO carbs (meat, fish, poultry, spinach, broccoli, water and green tea) with one high carb day every 28 days. The result was BF dropping from 18.5% to 10.2%!!!

Eating such low carbs was HELL but the results were profound.

Now I’m reading this thread having got it in my head that I do not even start to lose BF until I am totally depleted which, for me I think takes around 7 days. At that point fat burning happens rapidly.

I really want to believe that I can have a high carb day once every 7 days and this will work even better than extended periods of zero carbs but my previous results did not agree with this.

Could it be that some people simply need much longer periods of zero carbs to drop fat effectively? Or was I simply doing the 5 day refeed wrongly before?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

878

[quote]will-of-iron wrote:
Hey guys (and especially Elusive :slight_smile:

Can I get your take on something? A few years ago I ate low carb all week and then had a huge carb meal on the evening of every 5th day. Fat loss was painfully slow this way (8% BF drop in a year).

Then in 2008 I did 11 WEEKS of ZERO carbs (meat, fish, poultry, spinach, broccoli, water and green tea) with one high carb day every 28 days. The result was BF dropping from 18.5% to 10.2%!!!

Eating such low carbs was HELL but the results were profound.

Now I’m reading this thread having got it in my head that I do not even start to lose BF until I am totally depleted which, for me I think takes around 7 days. At that point fat burning happens rapidly.

I really want to believe that I can have a high carb day once every 7 days and this will work even better than extended periods of zero carbs but my previous results did not agree with this.

Could it be that some people simply need much longer periods of zero carbs to drop fat effectively? Or was I simply doing the 5 day refeed wrongly before?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

[/quote]

It all comes down to one thing. Calories in vs calories out. If you are burning more calories then you are taking in then you are going to be loosing weight. As long as you are eating 1g of protein per body pound then you will not have to worry about sacrificing muscle loss. Most people carb cycle without actually knowing that they are carb cycling.

Heres an analogy. Think of your body as an engine and carbs are fuel for the engine. If you need more energy you increase the fuel (carbs) if you do not need extra energy then there is no reason to add the carbs. On your heavy lifting days take in sufficient carbs to fuel your workout and then take one carb meal after it. Same thing goes on your moderate lifting days. You would still take in carbs just not as much on your high days. On your off days there is no reason to take in carbs because your body does not need them.

The point of the refeed is to fire up your metabolism. If your body is depleted of glycogen then it will super compensate and store extra glycogen in the muscle stores. It also kicks up leptin and your T4 to T3 conversion.

Many times people do not baseline till later in the week because of their body holding water. 1g of carbs holds 2.7g of water. This makes up the 3.7g of glycogen+water that is stored in your body. What I would do to baseline quicker and to release the water that your body is holding onto is put your body in flushing mode. The day after your refeed take in exactly 3 gallons of water. The next morning and the next few days weigh yourself and you will see that your body will baseline faster due to less water retention. I also do fasted cardio the next morning to burn up any glycogen floating around in the blood stream. (Myth has recommended this to me and it has worked great)

Okay to finish off the discussion on refeeds. Many times people may feel that their refeeds were too excessive and they have not lost the weight for the week, whereas it is just the body retaining water. They end up short changing themselves in the long run and not taking advantage of the huge metabolic impact that the refeed is used for. If the refeed is still too big and it takes you too long to baseline then cut it back, if not then increase it and go from there. I would not set just a number of carbs to eat. Instead I set time limits. I would start out small and do a 3 hour refeed and take in as many carbs as you can comfortably handle. Then go from there.

One more thing that I feel helps me immensely is glucose disposal agents. Before each meal that I refeed I take in 1,200mg of Banaba Standarized to 20% corosolic acid. I also take in 5 caps of need2slin. (Warning do not attempt to take in that high of glucose disposal agents you will fall into hypoglycemia quickly) My refeed meals include mass quantities of carbs that most people would not be able to think about let alone eat. The reason the glucose disposal agents are dosed so high is because of the amount of carbs I am eating. Experiment with the glucose disposal agents and find out if they work for you. You can test various ones by purchasing a blood glucose meter and testing the amounts of carbs taken in with and without them. I do this and they help keep my blood glucose levels very low compared to without them.

879

Epic thread.

880

Since this was originally about carb cycling experience heres mine so far:

Carb Cycling Results (15 WEEKS)

WEIGHT: - 16.0 LB
WAIST: - 4.15 IN
BF%: - 8.5 %
LBM: + 0.1 LB
FAT: - 16.0 LB

I think this is the most effective way of losing fat. I havent tried a bulking cycle yet, so I´ll keep you guys posted when I start.