Whats your cardio like now? I agree with not needing many carbs on off days but I’m going to be doing HIIT so I’m going to be adding 40g or so making it 75g total for the day on off days. At least thats my plan
I have dropped the steady state running I was doing for 20-30 mins post-workout. The exception is Sunday, where I do a full body weights session. Given I had a bit of a binge on the Saturday night I felt I neded to bust my ass during the Sunday workout as much as possible, so I finished it with a 15 mins run.
I have been doing some metabolic weights work immediately after my strength sessions. However, I’m so spent this usually only equates to 5-10 mins of activity. I’m now contemplating doing some metabolic or HIIT stuff in between strength sessions to try and tap into the G-flux principle.
However, I’m undecided about this at the moment. I read Berardi and Cosgrove’s latest study where trainees stength trained twice per week and did metabolic work twice a week. A week looked like:
Monday - Strength workout
Tuesday - metabolic workout
Wednesday - off
Thursday - as Monday
Friday - as Tuesday
Weekend - off
As I said, I’m thinking about this approach. For now I’ll stick with strength training 3 times per week using 5x5 and supersets and 30sec RIs, ending with ome metabolic activity.[/quote]
Yea I’m not sure I would go to only 2 progressive strength workouts if I was looking to gain muscle personally. Do you have a link to that study? I haven’t seen anything from Berardi in awhile
Whats your cardio like now? I agree with not needing many carbs on off days but I’m going to be doing HIIT so I’m going to be adding 40g or so making it 75g total for the day on off days. At least thats my plan
I have dropped the steady state running I was doing for 20-30 mins post-workout. The exception is Sunday, where I do a full body weights session. Given I had a bit of a binge on the Saturday night I felt I neded to bust my ass during the Sunday workout as much as possible, so I finished it with a 15 mins run.
I have been doing some metabolic weights work immediately after my strength sessions. However, I’m so spent this usually only equates to 5-10 mins of activity. I’m now contemplating doing some metabolic or HIIT stuff in between strength sessions to try and tap into the G-flux principle.
However, I’m undecided about this at the moment. I read Berardi and Cosgrove’s latest study where trainees stength trained twice per week and did metabolic work twice a week. A week looked like:
Monday - Strength workout
Tuesday - metabolic workout
Wednesday - off
Thursday - as Monday
Friday - as Tuesday
Weekend - off
As I said, I’m thinking about this approach. For now I’ll stick with strength training 3 times per week using 5x5 and supersets and 30sec RIs, ending with ome metabolic activity.
Yea I’m not sure I would go to only 2 progressive strength workouts if I was looking to gain muscle personally. Do you have a link to that study? I haven’t seen anything from Berardi in awhile
[/quote]
Guys, what would you do for a carb-cycling bulk? I’ve been cycling carbs to cut for a while, and want to start a transition in August to a bulk starting September 1st. Any articles around that explain carb-cycling bulking?
[quote]vadox6466 wrote:
Guys, what would you do for a carb-cycling bulk? I’ve been cycling carbs to cut for a while, and want to start a transition in August to a bulk starting September 1st. Any articles around that explain carb-cycling bulking?[/quote]
I’ve gone down the same route - get lean first an then try and gain mass - and my approach has been based on Thibaudeau’s targeted carb approach. You’ll find the specific article on this site.
In summary, it involves ingesting the majority of daily carb intake para-workout. The rest of the time it’s P+F (with green, white veggies, etc). There are no reload days, etc. IMO this is great for a natural endomorph like me.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
vadox6466 wrote:
Guys, what would you do for a carb-cycling bulk? I’ve been cycling carbs to cut for a while, and want to start a transition in August to a bulk starting September 1st. Any articles around that explain carb-cycling bulking?
I’ve gone down the same route - get lean first an then try and gain mass - and my approach has been based on Thibaudeau’s targeted carb approach. You’ll find the specific article on this site.
In summary, it involves ingesting the majority of daily carb intake para-workout. The rest of the time it’s P+F (with green, white veggies, etc). There are no reload days, etc. IMO this is great for a natural endomorph like me. [/quote]
Haha, awesome, thanks dude. I’m in exactly the same boat as you… and that’s the structure for carb-intake I was thinking of doing. I read this whole thread (all 34 pages of it) the day before I did my first refeed three weeks ago once progress stalled. Now, I’ve been burning fat faster than ever! …but need to start transitioning my transition in ~20 days. Any advice for transitioning (ie, how many cals to increase by per week not to get suddenly bloated by excess carb intake). I’ve done low carb for 4 months now
[quote]vadox6466 wrote:
JamesBrawn007 wrote:
vadox6466 wrote:
Guys, what would you do for a carb-cycling bulk? I’ve been cycling carbs to cut for a while, and want to start a transition in August to a bulk starting September 1st. Any articles around that explain carb-cycling bulking?
I’ve gone down the same route - get lean first an then try and gain mass - and my approach has been based on Thibaudeau’s targeted carb approach. You’ll find the specific article on this site.
In summary, it involves ingesting the majority of daily carb intake para-workout. The rest of the time it’s P+F (with green, white veggies, etc). There are no reload days, etc. IMO this is great for a natural endomorph like me.
Haha, awesome, thanks dude. I’m in exactly the same boat as you… and that’s the structure for carb-intake I was thinking of doing. I read this whole thread (all 34 pages of it) the day before I did my first refeed three weeks ago once progress stalled. Now, I’ve been burning fat faster than ever! …but need to start transitioning my transition in ~20 days. Any advice for transitioning (ie, how many cals to increase by per week not to get suddenly bloated by excess carb intake). I’ve done low carb for 4 months now[/quote]
My first week “off” the diet I mainly used to rest the body. A few aches and pains had started as a result of the extra training I had been doing to accentuate the fat loss. So during that week my diet was virtually the same low calories, keto-like programme I had been on for the previous 9 weeks.
Since then (the last 2 weeks) I’ve added 400-500 calories daily. This is mostly spread between my last 2 meals of the day, which again are P+F.
I usually have a cheat on Saturday night. But I try to compensate by, e.g. ingesting only BCAAs throughout the day (apart from breakfast), and ensure I train on the Sunday.
I started with 60g carbs para-workout, now I’m closer to 120g. I probably won’t go much above that. Apart from that, I eat 15-20g carbs at breakfast from low GI fruit and some yoghurt. I may have an apple or 2 throughout the day, especially on training days. The rest of the time it’s green, white veggies, P+F.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
vadox6466 wrote:
JamesBrawn007 wrote:
vadox6466 wrote:
Guys, what would you do for a carb-cycling bulk? I’ve been cycling carbs to cut for a while, and want to start a transition in August to a bulk starting September 1st. Any articles around that explain carb-cycling bulking?
I’ve gone down the same route - get lean first an then try and gain mass - and my approach has been based on Thibaudeau’s targeted carb approach. You’ll find the specific article on this site.
In summary, it involves ingesting the majority of daily carb intake para-workout. The rest of the time it’s P+F (with green, white veggies, etc). There are no reload days, etc. IMO this is great for a natural endomorph like me.
Haha, awesome, thanks dude. I’m in exactly the same boat as you… and that’s the structure for carb-intake I was thinking of doing. I read this whole thread (all 34 pages of it) the day before I did my first refeed three weeks ago once progress stalled. Now, I’ve been burning fat faster than ever! …but need to start transitioning my transition in ~20 days. Any advice for transitioning (ie, how many cals to increase by per week not to get suddenly bloated by excess carb intake). I’ve done low carb for 4 months now
My first week “off” the diet I mainly used to rest the body. A few aches and pains had started as a result of the extra training I had been doing to accentuate the fat loss. So during that week my diet was virtually the same low calories, keto-like programme I had been on for the previous 9 weeks.
Since then (the last 2 weeks) I’ve added 400-500 calories daily. This is mostly spread between my last 2 meals of the day, which again are P+F.
I usually have a cheat on Saturday night. But I try to compensate by, e.g. ingesting only BCAAs throughout the day (apart from breakfast), and ensure I train on the Sunday.
I started with 60g carbs para-workout, now I’m closer to 120g. I probably won’t go much above that. Apart from that, I eat 15-20g carbs at breakfast from low GI fruit and some yoghurt. I may have an apple or 2 throughout the day, especially on training days. The rest of the time it’s green, white veggies, P+F.
[/quote]
All you’ll have is BCAA’s on a day you have a cheat meal? Damn, how huge is that meal?
Also are you back to 6 meals a day or are you sticking with 4 as in the GSD?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
All you’ll have is BCAA’s on a day you have a cheat meal? Damn, how huge is that meal?
Also are you back to 6 meals a day or are you sticking with 4 as in the GSD?
[/quote]
Like damn big! Usually lots of takeaway or restaurant Indian food followed by cake and/or chocolate. I could only guess calories but we’re talking 2500 easiy, probably a lot more, consumed over a 1-2 hour period.
I’m averaging 4 meals per day, with 1 protein pulse around luchtime and 1 30mins before breakfast. I may have 20g of low GI fruit with the lunchtime pulse if I’m feeling a bit low on energy, especially if I’m training later.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
All you’ll have is BCAA’s on a day you have a cheat meal? Damn, how huge is that meal?
Also are you back to 6 meals a day or are you sticking with 4 as in the GSD?
Like damn big! Usually lots of takeaway or restaurant Indian food followed by cake and/or chocolate. I could only guess calories but we’re talking 2500 easiy, probably a lot more, consumed over a 1-2 hour period.
I’m averaging 4 meals per day, with 1 protein pulse around luchtime and 1 30mins before breakfast. I may have 20g of low GI fruit with the lunchtime pulse if I’m feeling a bit low on energy, especially if I’m training later.[/quote]
Sounds good. I’m still having 4 meals a day but also a pre/post exercise shake every day so kind of like the 2 pulses your doing. Not serving the exact same purpose but similar in the sense of 4 meals + 2 shakes or whatever.
I don’t personally plan on any huge cheat meals but I’m thinking if I do have one (like I know I will next week) I’ll just not have carbs after my workout and replace one meal with a cheat meal (probably something like 2 pieces of pizza for example).
What do you do if you don’t hit under baseline a week after your carb-up?
I did my 2nd carb up two weeks ago, got 1000g+ carbs. Hit 0.5lb’s under that baseline by the time of my next carb up.
However, I felt that the 1000g carb-up was too much… so I went down to ~500g carbs for the carbup a week later. Problem is, right now I’m two days before my next scheduled refeed, and I’m 3lb’s above baseline! Went up 10lb’s the day after, then down to baseline+4lb for a few days, and today was the lowest weigh-in of this week at 3lb’s over baseline. WTF?
Do I just wait out this carbup until I get under baseline for last week?
(might be kind of a confusing post… in essence, I did a 1000g carbup and hit 0.5lb under baseline a week later. Then did a 500g carbup and am 3lb’s over baseline 2 days out)
Getting Unshredded - Day 20 - 173lbs (weight at end of GSD 167lbs - change this week 0lbs)
Not much to report from weekend weigh-in.
What I can report is a change to workout strategy. I have pondered for some time making changes but was unsure how to proceed. In the end, I have adopted a Vince Gironda-inspired programme. In summary it’s 3 on 1 off. So a week looks like this:
Sunday - legs, abs
Monday - chest, shoulders, triceps
Tuedsay - Back, biceps, forearms
Wednesday - off
Thursday - as Sunday, etc.
Workouts are fast and short (lasting no more than 30mins), utilising short RIs (30 - 45 secs), compound sets, and a 6-8 rep scheme. So for chest it looks like:
A1) Flat DB Press x6
rest 30 secs
A2) Dips x6
rest 30 secs, repeat twice
My rationale is that high frequency training of this style will best benefit my endomorphic profile. Of course, I will use periodization to work on strength, etc.
Still using targeted carb approach with 100g para-workout and almost all P+F the rest of the time. I’m using my off day as a ‘damage control’ day, e.g. low kcal/carb/fat.
Yesterday I took delivery of beta alanine tabs and popped 2 an hour before my workout. My face was tingling within 20mins and I did feel pretty energetic for the workout, so looks like a wise investment.
Yea you gotta watch volume when doing a push/pull/legs split a full 2x during 1 week but it looks like thats pretty taken care of. Keep us updated on any nutrition changes you might make
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Yea you gotta watch volume when doing a push/pull/legs split a full 2x during 1 week but it looks like thats pretty taken care of. Keep us updated on any nutrition changes you might make[/quote]
Are BCAA worthwhile during a cut? Or are they purely anabolic?
Would it be better (in terms of saving money) to stick with creatine and glutamine for cutting?
And what’s the verdict with mixing creatine BCAA and glutamine? I heard that not all of the can be absorbed simultaneously. true?
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Yea you gotta watch volume when doing a push/pull/legs split a full 2x during 1 week but it looks like thats pretty taken care of. Keep us updated on any nutrition changes you might make
How’s your progress to date?[/quote]
In general or for GSD?
For GSD: At my non-advanced level I really like to beat the logbook every time I work out and my strength was just not going anywhere with the GSD calorie levels. While at 1750 6 days a week my strength basically stayed the same on almost all movements, then since I wasn’t happy with results I dropped down to 1630 calories and in my pictures I think I just looked significantly skinnier (although i don’t feel like I really lost any muscle so I don’t know) and strength seemed to halt on everything and possibly decline on 1-2 exercises. I guess I was just expecting fast results with the GSD that I really didn’t see.
Now I did do a refeed every week instead of every 2 weeks but it wasn’t for a full day any of the times, generally 6 hours or so.
As of now I’ve switched to more constant calories at 1750 on cardio only days and 1850 or so on workout+cardio days (75-100g or carbs a day) Which is what I’ve done since Last Monday (the 6th). Also threw in 3 days of HIIT last week but have replaced it this week with an equivalent amount of LISS cardio because it’s my deload week. I have filled out somewhat from the carbs and with the little bit of tan I’ve added in the last few days I’m looking significantly better with a shirt off. The thing is I know this last week or so from the higher calories/carbs didn’t really cause much, if any, more fat loss so I’m sure the looking better is mostly from the tan and carbs. So definitely the abs have shown up more in the last few weeks.
As of now I’m really trying to decide between continuing with this plan or taking a week for higher calories (2500 or so) and then starting a more drastic plan again like UD2 or more traditional carb cycling. I’m tired of cutting in general because of the lack of strength progress but I guess we’ll just have to see how this week goes.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
JamesBrawn007 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Yea you gotta watch volume when doing a push/pull/legs split a full 2x during 1 week but it looks like thats pretty taken care of. Keep us updated on any nutrition changes you might make
How’s your progress to date?
In general or for GSD?
For GSD: At my non-advanced level I really like to beat the logbook every time I work out and my strength was just not going anywhere with the GSD calorie levels. While at 1750 6 days a week my strength basically stayed the same on almost all movements, then since I wasn’t happy with results I dropped down to 1630 calories and in my pictures I think I just looked significantly skinnier (although i don’t feel like I really lost any muscle so I don’t know) and strength seemed to halt on everything and possibly decline on 1-2 exercises. I guess I was just expecting fast results with the GSD that I really didn’t see.
Now I did do a refeed every week instead of every 2 weeks but it wasn’t for a full day any of the times, generally 6 hours or so.
As of now I’ve switched to more constant calories at 1750 on cardio only days and 1850 or so on workout+cardio days (75-100g or carbs a day) Which is what I’ve done since Last Monday (the 6th). Also threw in 3 days of HIIT last week but have replaced it this week with an equivalent amount of LISS cardio because it’s my deload week. I have filled out somewhat from the carbs and with the little bit of tan I’ve added in the last few days I’m looking significantly better with a shirt off. The thing is I know this last week or so from the higher calories/carbs didn’t really cause much, if any, more fat loss so I’m sure the looking better is mostly from the tan and carbs. So definitely the abs have shown up more in the last few weeks.
As of now I’m really trying to decide between continuing with this plan or taking a week for higher calories (2500 or so) and then starting a more drastic plan again like UD2 or more traditional carb cycling. I’m tired of cutting in general because of the lack of strength progress but I guess we’ll just have to see how this week goes. [/quote]
I know what you mean about the strength issue. I was more or less static for 9 weeks on GSD regarding load. Did I lose any muscle? Well, it’s probably a yes to that question. Was I happy with the final result despite this? That was a certain yes.
I do agree with your reasoning regarding drastic cutting programmes, e.g. GSD, UD2, etc. They can start to become counter-productive and perhaps a more longer-term cut approach is the most sensible, common sense tactic.
[quote]Aprentice wrote:
I have a question about cutting/ bulking.
Are BCAA worthwhile during a cut? Or are they purely anabolic?
Would it be better (in terms of saving money) to stick with creatine and glutamine for cutting?
And what’s the verdict with mixing creatine BCAA and glutamine? I heard that not all of the can be absorbed simultaneously. true?[/quote]
BCAAs appear to have fallen out of favour, according to the latest T-Mation research espoused by Christian Thibaudeau, as has glutamine.
My reading of the current debate is that BCAAs are still useful while cutting to maintain positive nitrogen balance despite calorie restrictions. This is the rationale behind the GSD of John Berardi, who recommends replacing 2 meals a day with 5g BCaas and 2.5g creatine. Layne Norton also endorses something similar.
Having used this approach for weeks while on GSD I can state from experience the BCAAs worked wonders while on a low carb/calorie diet - even blunting hunger up to a point. I never used glutamine so I can’t comment on that.
JB how long did you keep the cals ~16-1800 before you had your first refeed? Would you mind sharing your workouts as well? I know you’re all about the metabolic sessions but how much strength training did you involve?
My summer bulk is coming to an end this weekend and I’ve put on about 10 lbs. My plan is a simple carb cycle with calories ~1,800 with no refeeds at first…maybe a cheat once a week.
[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
JB how long did you keep the cals ~16-1800 before you had your first refeed? Would you mind sharing your workouts as well? I know you’re all about the metabolic sessions but how much strength training did you involve?
My summer bulk is coming to an end this weekend and I’ve put on about 10 lbs. My plan is a simple carb cycle with calories ~1,800 with no refeeds at first…maybe a cheat once a week.[/quote]
Wow it seems like you just finished cutting, how long did your bulk last? Mind outlining your cutting carb cycling plan? 1800 seems low to start off with, and I would think you’d just have low, high, and maybe medium days…not a refeed unless your talking more about a 6 day keto/1 day refeed type deal.
[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
JB how long did you keep the cals ~16-1800 before you had your first refeed? Would you mind sharing your workouts as well? I know you’re all about the metabolic sessions but how much strength training did you involve?
My summer bulk is coming to an end this weekend and I’ve put on about 10 lbs. My plan is a simple carb cycle with calories ~1,800 with no refeeds at first…maybe a cheat once a week.[/quote]
I was doing low calories for 13 straight days (in keto), then the refeed on day 14 (where I ate up to 6500kcals).
In terms of workouts, I did full-body sessions for both strength and metabolic sessions. This was primarily due to lower back issues curtailing leg work somewhat. Therefore, it wasn’t really worth doing an upper/lower split - which I would have preferred for strength sessions.
I trained on average every other day. I would do two metabolic sessions then a strength session, then repeat, e.g.
Monday - metabolic
Wednesday - metabolic
Friday - strength
Sunday - metabolic
Tuesday - metabolic
Thursday - strength
All performed in a circuit. No rest between exercises. 90 seconds RIs between circuits. Performed 5 circuits. Total training time: 25mins. Then 15min gentle jog.
Heart rate monitor had me at 179bpm (max heart rate 182 using crude age-220 formula). Lovely lung-buster.
A strength session looked like:
A1) Flat DB Press 5x5
A2) Lying DB Row 5x5
performed as supersets with 1 min RIs
B1) Close-grip chin
B2) Partial DB Press
C1) BB Lunge
C2) DB step-up