Carbs Cycling Experience

Nutrition
821

I have been trying to :slight_smile: Just started talking to a psycologist. Itā€™s too early to see any changes though.
I eat healthy 100 % of the time (except for the artificial sweetener stuff), and the bulimia is more of an on and off thing. It usually only gets bad when i get out of my comfortable circle where I have the foods i like available and am not forced/ pressured to eat junk by friends/ people.

I donā€™t think at this moment I am under any health risks (except mental health due to food addiction), this all just bothers me because I am 17 and ā€œfoodā€ takes too much of my time.
Thatā€™s why i am trying to find a diet where i have something solid to follow and i wonā€™t eat low cal stuff all day just so i can ā€œmake itā€ in between the meals.

Thanks for your concern skip :slight_smile: And I was just ā€œbacking awayā€ because this is off topic and I know people donā€™t really have/ want to hear it haha

Anyway, concerning carb cycling:

What do you guys think is better? Have a carb cycling diet with low/medium/high carb days or having a carb cycling diet with High/medium/no carb days?

822

Anyway, concerning carb cycling:

What do you guys think is better? Have a carb cycling diet with low/medium/high carb days or having a carb cycling diet with High/medium/no carb days?

823

This is just my take but in the context of such a long break from training, I think Iā€™d be more likely to go all out low carb (30-50g) with moderate weekly refeeds. Something akin to the Anabolic Diet?

(Of course, there is the potential for abuse with the whole binge/purge element, I know this from experience.)

I guess it depends on your tendency towards fat gain.
And it depends on what ā€˜going awayā€™ entails - if itā€™s a hiking trip or a sports camp then I guess youā€™ll want the carbs but if itā€™s screwing around with friends on the beach with suds, buds and errā€¦ boobs, then itā€™s something to consider.

You could always work on a bodyweight routine with cardio spread throughout the week, perhaps fill a rucksack with stuff and do some weighted press ups, pull/chin ups (if you can something suitable), squats, lunges etcā€¦

I was just under the impression that the carbs are cycled largely for the sake of training, being used for function rather than just cos.

824

[quote]Ken Skip Hill wrote:
I am not a fan of HIIT cardio for bodybuilding purposes. I work with professional athletes and high level amateurs for sport specific conditioning and in that case, HIIT has itā€™s place. For what you are talking about, though, my answer is no.

I also think that experimentation is a good idea BUT ā€¦ donā€™t get too caught up on making decisions on whether something works or not after only one or two weeks. Just because you didnā€™t lose strength last week doesnā€™t mean you arenā€™t already overtraining. I am not saying that you are but it can certainly take longer than a week to show signs of overtraining. Even then, guys like yourself usually ignore them for another couple weeks. :slight_smile: Not picking on you but being serious.

Skip
[/quote]

I get what you mean. Let me clarify about the HIIT since what I said is misleading. I did not mean HIIT like sprinting, more like ā€œMetConā€ workouts like Myth from IM does. Basically 6-7 crossfit-like exercises doing 25 reps each and performing that twice, as fast as I can. Metabolically very tough but nothing hitting muscular failure. In a way its like a glycogen depletion/lactate workout. Does that change your recommendation about it or do you still suggest against it?

By the way I gained the most from my refeed this week even though it was only 4 hours (3.6lbā€¦lol) but also lost the most by the following monday (today), almost 3lb. of it, being significantly less than last monday even though I was more this saturday. Just somethings I noticed.

825

On my no carb days, is like 40-50 grams of trade carbs acceptable?

And should i increase my protein and fat intake in order to match up the calorie reduction? Or should I keep the deficit because it will make me burn more fat or something.

Today is my first no carb day ever and 3/5 of my way through the day with 900 cals, 90 grams of protein, 50 grams of fat and like 30 grams of carbs from all the dairy and trace carbs.

I am aiming for something around the 1300-1400 cal (i usually eat 2000-2200 cal)

I weight 149 pounds and am 5ā€™9
I dont have a six pack yet though so i want to build muscle and be able to see it. Will eating this little calories on my no carb day lead to catabolism and eat away my muscle or is it fine (do i need to increase it a bit)?

826

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
On my no carb days, is like 40-50 grams of trade carbs acceptable?

And should i increase my protein and fat intake in order to match up the calorie reduction? Or should I keep the deficit because it will make me burn more fat or something.

Today is my first no carb day ever and 3/5 of my way through the day with 900 cals, 90 grams of protein, 50 grams of fat and like 30 grams of carbs from all the dairy and trace carbs.

I am aiming for something around the 1300-1400 cal (i usually eat 2000-2200 cal)

I weight 149 pounds and am 5ā€™9
I dont have a six pack yet though so i want to build muscle and be able to see it. Will eating this little calories on my no carb day lead to catabolism and eat away my muscle or is it fine (do i need to increase it a bit)?[/quote]

Dude, at 149lbs you need to seriously assess your body comp. What you wonā€™t be able to do is earn lean mass on 1300-1400 calories a day. Perhaps you should reconsider your goals?

827

1300-1400 kcal on the no carb day that is
2200 on the low carb
and 2600 on the high carb.

Got my thoughts mixed up.

828

Getting Unshredded - Day 13 - 173lbs - 7.5%BF (weight at end of GSD 167lbs - 8.8%BF)

Up another 2lbs this week. Body fat scales tell me Iā€™m down 0.3%. Mirror tells me still excellent core look.

Carb-wise itā€™s still circa 100g peri-workout, with 12-20g low GI fruit at breakfast; the rest of the day is P+F. I see no real need to jack up carbs much further at this stage.

Iā€™m starting to become really convinced the amino pulsing is having a positive effect on body comp. I was pulsing with BCAAs and creatine for 6 weeks during GSD and moved to whey hydrosylate and leucine for the last month. Despite ingesting only 2400-2500 kcals a day over 3-4 meals, training hard and fast, and walking on days off, my body weight has continued to steadily increase - while my bodyfat has actually decreased slightly.

829

JB thatā€™s pretty fantastic. Would you mind posting a sample workout day menu including your supplements to give us an idea of the pulsing protocol? Also, do you have a whey/casein hydrosolate protein preference?

830

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
JB thatā€™s pretty fantastic. Would you mind posting a sample workout day menu including your supplements to give us an idea of the pulsing protocol? Also, do you have a whey/casein hydrosolate protein preference?[/quote]

No problem mate. I donā€™t have access to casein hydrosylate but can source whey hydrosylate at a very reasonable price. What Iā€™ve noticed about the WH is that unlike the BCAAs, you feel hungry very quickly afterwards. I interpret that as showing the pre-digested protein is indeed rapidly absorbed.

8am upon waking
1 scoop whey hydrosylate (WH), 5g leucine

Breakfast - 08.30
2 whole egs
5 egg whites
30-40g low fat cheese
150-200g rasperries + blueberries
2 heaped tbsp low fat yoghurt
1 high potency multi-vit/min tab
5g fish oil
500mg vit C
2g evening primrose
1 multi-mineral tab

12.30
as upon waking, or 5 BCAAs tabs if on the move

14.30
large salad with French dressing
40-50g protein from chicken, or tuna, or salmon

17.30
10g BCAA

18.15
1 scoop Workout Fuel, 5g creatine

18.45 workout begins
1 scoop WH, 5g leucine, 40g glucose

19.45 end of workout
as workout, 5g creatine

20.45
as upon waking, 5g glycine

21.15
40-50g protein from chicken or turkey
large salad with French dressing
large portion of green veg
20g almonds
5g fish oil
500mg vit C
2g evening primrose
1 multi-mineral tab

23.30
400-500 kcal P+F meal similar to dinner usually including 10-15g protein from low fat cottage cheese for slow protein release

831

What is a typical workout days and non-workout days breakdown for you in grams of protein/carbs/fat?

832

On low days the guideline of .50 g of carbs per lb. of BW sounds good. But if one were to go to .25 g of carbs per lb. of BW on low days is that such a bad idea? I was thinking of having only 50 g of carbs a day after my high days. 50 g of carbs is about .25g of carbs per lb. of BW for me. What do you guys think? Do some of you guys go lower than the .50 g of carbs on low days guideline?

833

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
What is a typical workout days and non-workout days breakdown for you in grams of protein/carbs/fat?[/quote]

In terms of carbs itā€™s 120g on workout days - and 100-105g of that is peri-workout. On non-WO days Iā€™m pretty much following the same keto protocol, i.e. 10-15g of low GI fruit for breakfast with any additional carbs coming via green veggies throughout the day, as well as around 5-10g from cottage cheese.

I aim for 200-220g PRO daily. On non-WO days fat intake will be higher, e.g. 120-150g per day. On WO days it will be closer to 90-120g.

834

[quote]LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
On low days the guideline of .50 g of carbs per lb. of BW sounds good. But if one were to go to .25 g of carbs per lb. of BW on low days is that such a bad idea? I was thinking of having only 50 g of carbs a day after my high days. 50 g of carbs is about .25g of carbs per lb. of BW for me. What do you guys think? Do some of you guys go lower than the .50 g of carbs on low days guideline? [/quote]

Depends on your goals. For inducing ketosis, I would set my carb ceiling at 50g from all sources, including green veggies. The same rule applies for so-called damage limitation days, spoken about by Thibaudeau for when you want to minimise fat accumulation while on lean mass phase. Of course for the latter, you would also be limiting fat intake. I certainly find his protocol works for me. With my endomorphic profile there is no real value ingesting moderate carbs on off days. A high protein, moderate to high fat diet on thse days coupled with some walking appears to (a) keep me lean after a dieting phase; (b) ensure Iā€™m ultra-sensitive to the peri-WO high carb amino nutrition.

835

Getting ready to start my first carb cycle and just want to make sure I have all my info right. When calculating carbs, fats, and proteins on the low, mod, and high days do you still look at say carbs from milk or peanut butter. And the fats, do you calculate the eggs, milk, whey, etc. Want to make sure I get my numbers as accurate as possible.

836

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
What is a typical workout days and non-workout days breakdown for you in grams of protein/carbs/fat?

In terms of carbs itā€™s 120g on workout days - and 100-105g of that is peri-workout. On non-WO days Iā€™m pretty much following the same keto protocol, i.e. 10-15g of low GI fruit for breakfast with any additional carbs coming via green veggies throughout the day, as well as around 5-10g from cottage cheese.

I aim for 200-220g PRO daily. On non-WO days fat intake will be higher, e.g. 120-150g per day. On WO days it will be closer to 90-120g.[/quote]

when you say 120g is that 120 total or added? For instance I currently have no carbs added but it totals about 34g. Starting tomorrow Iā€™m going to bring my carbs up to about 100g on workout days but really only adding about 65g (which will be peri-workout). On off days Iā€™m going to add about 40g making it 75g total. Those 40g will be placed around HIIT. No more refeeds because of this. Fat around 70g and protein around 185g.

837

Count carbs from milk, because itā€™s lactose, which is a form of sugar. The carbs in peanut butter do not bother counting. Calculate fats from eggs, milk, nuts, etc.

838

[quote]Mateus wrote:
Getting ready to start my first carb cycle and just want to make sure I have all my info right. When calculating carbs, fats, and proteins on the low, mod, and high days do you still look at say carbs from milk or peanut butter. And the fats, do you calculate the eggs, milk, whey, etc. Want to make sure I get my numbers as accurate as possible.[/quote]

Its up to you but I say count everything except fiber

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:

Depends on your goals. For inducing ketosis, I would set my carb ceiling at 50g from all sources, including green veggies. The same rule applies for so-called damage limitation days, spoken about by Thibaudeau for when you want to minimise fat accumulation while on lean mass phase. Of course for the latter, you would also be limiting fat intake. I certainly find his protocol works for me. With my endomorphic profile there is no real value ingesting moderate carbs on off days. A high protein, moderate to high fat diet on thse days coupled with some walking appears to (a) keep me lean after a dieting phase; (b) ensure Iā€™m ultra-sensitive to the peri-WO high carb amino nutrition.[/quote]

Whats your cardio like now? I agree with not needing many carbs on off days but Iā€™m going to be doing HIIT so Iā€™m going to be adding 40g or so making it 75g total for the day on off days. At least thats my plan

839

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
JamesBrawn007 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
What is a typical workout days and non-workout days breakdown for you in grams of protein/carbs/fat?

In terms of carbs itā€™s 120g on workout days - and 100-105g of that is peri-workout. On non-WO days Iā€™m pretty much following the same keto protocol, i.e. 10-15g of low GI fruit for breakfast with any additional carbs coming via green veggies throughout the day, as well as around 5-10g from cottage cheese.

I aim for 200-220g PRO daily. On non-WO days fat intake will be higher, e.g. 120-150g per day. On WO days it will be closer to 90-120g.

when you say 120g is that 120 total or added? For instance I currently have no carbs added but it totals about 34g. Starting tomorrow Iā€™m going to bring my carbs up to about 100g on workout days but really only adding about 65g (which will be peri-workout). On off days Iā€™m going to add about 40g making it 75g total. Those 40g will be placed around HIIT. No more refeeds because of this. Fat around 70g and protein around 185g. [/quote]

Thatā€™s 120g total for the day, of which around 100g is added to my workout shakes in the form og glucose. The remaining 20g or so is what I would consume in a normal day anyway via low GI fruit in the morning and some green veggies throughout the day. In reality, the green veggies may take me closer to 140g total but I donā€™t get too anal about carbs from fibre.

You are right about refeeds. Once you start cycling carbs there is no real valid reason to reload. Doing so is really just an excuse to binge.

840

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

Whats your cardio like now? I agree with not needing many carbs on off days but Iā€™m going to be doing HIIT so Iā€™m going to be adding 40g or so making it 75g total for the day on off days. At least thats my plan[/quote]

I have dropped the steady state running I was doing for 20-30 mins post-workout. The exception is Sunday, where I do a full body weights session. Given I had a bit of a binge on the Saturday night I felt I neded to bust my ass during the Sunday workout as much as possible, so I finished it with a 15 mins run.

I have been doing some metabolic weights work immediately after my strength sessions. However, Iā€™m so spent this usually only equates to 5-10 mins of activity. Iā€™m now contemplating doing some metabolic or HIIT stuff in between strength sessions to try and tap into the G-flux principle.

However, Iā€™m undecided about this at the moment. I read Berardi and Cosgroveā€™s latest study where trainees stength trained twice per week and did metabolic work twice a week. A week looked like:

Monday - Strength workout
Tuesday - metabolic workout
Wednesday - off
Thursday - as Monday
Friday - as Tuesday
Weekend - off

As I said, Iā€™m thinking about this approach. For now Iā€™ll stick with strength training 3 times per week using 5x5 and supersets and 30sec RIs, ending with ome metabolic activity.