Carbs Cycling Experience

Diet and Nutrition
561

I got a new idea regarding refeeds I would like to throw out to you guys and see what you think.

I have finals this upcoming week so I need to spend the majority of the weekend studying. I was planning on having my refeed all day today with about 800 carbs. But after thinking about it, studying would just make my refeed really depressing and I want to enjoy my refeed so I decided to do a 5 hour refeed after my leg workout last night. I got in probably about 800-1000 grams of carbs in that 5 hour period. This morning I notice much much less spillover than on my previous refeeds where I refed the whole day and only had a couple hundred grams more of carbs.

My theory is that optimal refeeds should be based on total time just as much as total carbohydrate intake. DO you guys think there is some validity to this? I feel that I was able to get a greater super-compensation of glycogen because of the greater intake of carbs per period of time.

Thoughts?

562

ajweins,

Awesome job man, you have a very “attainable physique”. I’m shooting for something around there.

563

[quote]ajweins wrote:
I got a new idea regarding refeeds I would like to throw out to you guys and see what you think.

I have finals this upcoming week so I need to spend the majority of the weekend studying. I was planning on having my refeed all day today with about 800 carbs. But after thinking about it, studying would just make my refeed really depressing and I want to enjoy my refeed so I decided to do a 5 hour refeed after my leg workout last night. I got in probably about 800-1000 grams of carbs in that 5 hour period. This morning I notice much much less spillover than on my previous refeeds where I refed the whole day and only had a couple hundred grams more of carbs.

My theory is that optimal refeeds should be based on total time just as much as total carbohydrate intake. DO you guys think there is some validity to this? I feel that I was able to get a greater super-compensation of glycogen because of the greater intake of carbs per period of time.

Thoughts?[/quote]

I think once you start replenishing glycogen stores, you only have a certain amount of time for supercompensation to occur. Meaning you can’t start filling up right now and then stop. Then start loading again 2 days from now and expect a supercomensation effect. So this means that you have a time period in which a carb load is optimal. Just FYI, I feel that Skip is one of the, if not THE leading dude in loading and he bases his loads on time, not total amount of CHO.

564

[quote]ajweins wrote:
I got a new idea regarding refeeds I would like to throw out to you guys and see what you think.

I have finals this upcoming week so I need to spend the majority of the weekend studying. I was planning on having my refeed all day today with about 800 carbs. But after thinking about it, studying would just make my refeed really depressing and I want to enjoy my refeed so I decided to do a 5 hour refeed after my leg workout last night. I got in probably about 800-1000 grams of carbs in that 5 hour period. This morning I notice much much less spillover than on my previous refeeds where I refed the whole day and only had a couple hundred grams more of carbs.

My theory is that optimal refeeds should be based on total time just as much as total carbohydrate intake. DO you guys think there is some validity to this? I feel that I was able to get a greater super-compensation of glycogen because of the greater intake of carbs per period of time.

Thoughts?[/quote]

I agree with that, I mean yea its not like if you decided to eat 300g/day for 3 days it would be the same as 900-1000g in one day

about your results with cutting, did you notice you were really run down or anything? I just dropped calories and increased activity and my skinfold measurements just wont go down! but even now they’re averaging 2200 calories during the week and sunday and I’m only 170 now so BWx13. My carb up is only 320g though, I just don’t understand how my caliper meausrements haven’t changed in 6 weeks even with decreasing calories and increasing activity

565

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
ajweins wrote:
I got a new idea regarding refeeds I would like to throw out to you guys and see what you think.

I have finals this upcoming week so I need to spend the majority of the weekend studying. I was planning on having my refeed all day today with about 800 carbs. But after thinking about it, studying would just make my refeed really depressing and I want to enjoy my refeed so I decided to do a 5 hour refeed after my leg workout last night. I got in probably about 800-1000 grams of carbs in that 5 hour period. This morning I notice much much less spillover than on my previous refeeds where I refed the whole day and only had a couple hundred grams more of carbs.

My theory is that optimal refeeds should be based on total time just as much as total carbohydrate intake. DO you guys think there is some validity to this? I feel that I was able to get a greater super-compensation of glycogen because of the greater intake of carbs per period of time.

Thoughts?

I agree with that, I mean yea its not like if you decided to eat 300g/day for 3 days it would be the same as 900-1000g in one day

about your results with cutting, did you notice you were really run down or anything? I just dropped calories and increased activity and my skinfold measurements just wont go down! but even now they’re averaging 2200 calories during the week and sunday and I’m only 170 now so BWx13. My carb up is only 320g though, I just don’t understand how my caliper meausrements haven’t changed in 6 weeks even with decreasing calories and increasing activity[/quote]

Yeah. I got to feeling pretty run down at times. My efforts in schoolwork definately decreased. Thankfully I have already been accepted to graduate school. Ha. Any drastic diet will have you feeling run down though I bet.

I don’t really know what to say about your fat loss situation. However, I went lower on calories during the week but higher carbs on refeeds.

566

Elusive where did you get the idea of having such large re-feeds with “dirtier” carb sources. Was it from Shelby? Skip? or is it just you experimenting?

567

My dirty refeed journey was intially sparked by Lyle McDonald’s work. He has some info on how “dirtier” carbs aren’t bad during the 1st half of your carb load and actually may be beneficial. Then I started reading alot of Skip’s stuff. Skip is the man. lol. Then I experimented for myself. Shelby doesn’t recommend “refeeds” that I know of.

Bottom Line, your body will digest those enormous amounts of carbohydrates into glucose. Your body doesn’t know where the glucose came from. The glucose will convert to glycogen. Alot of the calories for the day will be spent through themrogenesis, fuel your daily activities + BMR and some may not even be absorbed.

At the end of ALL of that, if you happen to put on some fat it doesn’t matter. This is because for the previous 6 days, you beat the hell out of your adipose tissue.

568

[quote]elusive wrote:
My dirty refeed journey was intially sparked by Lyle McDonald’s work. He has some info on how “dirtier” carbs aren’t bad during the 1st half of your carb load and actually may be beneficial. Then I started reading alot of Skip’s stuff. Skip is the man. lol. Then I experimented for myself. Shelby doesn’t recommend “refeeds” that I know of.

Bottom Line, your body will digest those enormous amounts of carbohydrates into glucose. Your body doesn’t know where the glucose came from. The glucose will convert to glycogen. Alot of the calories for the day will be spent through themrogenesis, fuel your daily activities + BMR and some may not even be absorbed. At the end of ALL of that, if you happen to put on some fat it doesn’t matter. This is because for the previous 6 days, you beat the hell out of your adipose tissue.[/quote]

I’m reading a few books of lyle Mcdonald. Do you have any articles about re-feeds written by Skip?. Also, when are you going to be working with Shelby?

569

I decided I am going to bridge out of my fat loss phase and begin CT’s carb cycling codex. This may only be for around 4 weeks before I really go after the last bit of fat but these past 10 weeks have really been brutal on my mind and body.

Just wanted to say thanks to all you guys for the help you have given me.

570

[quote]ajweins wrote:
I decided I am going to bridge out of my fat loss phase and begin CT’s carb cycling codex. This may only be for around 4 weeks before I really go after the last bit of fat but these past 10 weeks have really been brutal on my mind and body.

Just wanted to say thanks to all you guys for the help you have given me.[/quote]

Good luck and keep us posted as always.

571

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
elusive wrote:
My dirty refeed journey was intially sparked by Lyle McDonald’s work. He has some info on how “dirtier” carbs aren’t bad during the 1st half of your carb load and actually may be beneficial. Then I started reading alot of Skip’s stuff. Skip is the man. lol. Then I experimented for myself. Shelby doesn’t recommend “refeeds” that I know of.

Bottom Line, your body will digest those enormous amounts of carbohydrates into glucose. Your body doesn’t know where the glucose came from. The glucose will convert to glycogen. Alot of the calories for the day will be spent through themrogenesis, fuel your daily activities + BMR and some may not even be absorbed. At the end of ALL of that, if you happen to put on some fat it doesn’t matter. This is because for the previous 6 days, you beat the hell out of your adipose tissue.

I’m reading a few books of lyle Mcdonald. Do you have any articles about re-feeds written by Skip?. Also, when are you going to be working with Shelby? [/quote]

Here is a basic interview where Skip discusses his madness:
http://www.intensemuscle.com/32172-ken-skip-hill-skiploading-contest-prep-picking-his-brain-works.html?highlight=skiploading

I plan on working with Shelby for an offseason package if he has availability when I feel that I’m lean enough. I KNOW I’m lean enough now, but I want to really get peeled before I start adding weight on again. From where I stand now, that COULD be in 4 weeks. However, I plan on holding that leanness for a liitle while (summer time) before moving into a bulking mode. I’m really not sure when it’ll be.

572

[quote]elusive wrote:
ronaldo7 wrote:
elusive wrote:
My dirty refeed journey was intially sparked by Lyle McDonald’s work. He has some info on how “dirtier” carbs aren’t bad during the 1st half of your carb load and actually may be beneficial. Then I started reading alot of Skip’s stuff. Skip is the man. lol. Then I experimented for myself. Shelby doesn’t recommend “refeeds” that I know of.

Bottom Line, your body will digest those enormous amounts of carbohydrates into glucose. Your body doesn’t know where the glucose came from. The glucose will convert to glycogen. Alot of the calories for the day will be spent through themrogenesis, fuel your daily activities + BMR and some may not even be absorbed. At the end of ALL of that, if you happen to put on some fat it doesn’t matter. This is because for the previous 6 days, you beat the hell out of your adipose tissue.

I’m reading a few books of lyle Mcdonald. Do you have any articles about re-feeds written by Skip?. Also, when are you going to be working with Shelby?

Here is a basic interview where Skip discusses his madness:
http://www.intensemuscle.com/32172-ken-skip-hill-skiploading-contest-prep-picking-his-brain-works.html?highlight=skiploading

I plan on working with Shelby for an offseason package if he has availability when I feel that I’m lean enough. I KNOW I’m lean enough now, but I want to really get peeled before I start adding weight on again. From where I stand now, that COULD be in 4 weeks. However, I plan on holding that leanness for a liitle while (summer time) before moving into a bulking mode. I’m really not sure when it’ll be.
[/quote]

Nice. I found this thread too if anyone is interested.

www.intensemuscle.com/31209-nutrition-do-you-re-feed-post-yourmeals2.html?highlight=refeeds

I had a big slip a few days back, pretty much went into full crap eating for 4 days so fat-loss got all fucked up, gained like 10 pounds although half of it was probably water.

For the last 4 days my carbs have been around 128g on average per day and tonight I pretty much had lots of carbs in the time span of two hours, I wasn’t really planning it but oh well. Yesterday(friday) my weight was at 172lbs so I’ll weight my self in about 2-3 days to see where I stand. I guess this is the start of Re-feeds for me :-). I’ll be eating low calories and low carbs for the next 6-7 days depending on my weight and then re-feeding again but this time it will be a bit larger and planned. Laters.

Oh by the way the little carb up I had was:

oatmeal with chocolate syrup
1.5 banana
2 cups of brown rice half a cup of white
some chopped almonds( like a tablespoon so not much)
a bunch of white potatoes
sugar free pudding(all I had at home)
chicken breast and steak
15 white crackers

573

A little update on what going on…

-my last week was by far the worst in terms of dieting, had 3 very high carbs days, a 5 hours huge refeed but with fats and carbs and junks!!!
-weight now 194/+3 from 10days ago
-Been reading about the gsd(Berardi) but i dont think im ready for this one…
-New plan 3low/1 high to moderate with one 5 hours refeed every 2 weeks…
-The 3 low days will try not go over 50g carbs/day
-boosting the cardio up to 5 hrs a week(average about 3h right now)

Only one way to find out if it will work…

574

Eample of a low carbs day:

Meal 1:
Lean Protein, 1/2 cup oatmeal

Meal 2:
Protein shake low carbs/Lean Protein

Meal 3:
Veggies, Lean Protein

Workout

Meal 4:
PWO Nutrition(shake low carbs)

Meal 5:
Veggies, Lean Protein, 1/2 cup rice or oatmeal.

Meal 6:
Shake or cottage cheese

That turns into approximately 150-200 grams protein, apprx 50 grams Carbs, and 50 grams of fat.

*lean proteins;chiken,shrimps,horse meat,white eggs…that type

575

GSD - Day 23 - 176lbs (total loss to date 6lbs)

Well, slightly pissed following this morning’s weigh-in because my weight has stalled at 176lbs.
I am slightly surprised because although I had what I thought were very slight dietary lapses, as a result of working away from home for two days, I still expected at least a 1lb loss this week through my good work in and outside of the gym.

My goal is to lower the kcals this week in the run up to Sunday (which is my scheduled fortnightly carb-up day). I’m currently closer to x11 on GSD at 2000kcals a day, so I’ll lower to x10 = 1800kcals.
What I will say is that I have not lost any strength/energy so far on GSD despite the calorie/carb protocols. So although I haven’t shed as much fat as quickly as I would’ve liked I believe I’m retaining mass and have noticed a distinct body composition change already. I also primed myself for the week before this diet by going keto, so the 6lbs I’ve lost on GSD to date are more likely to be genuine flab rather than fluid.

Training-wise, my week looks something like:
Monday - cardio (45mins pretty easy pace)
Tuesday - strength session (whole body using 5x5 supersets; 60mins)
Wednesday - as Monday
Thursday - lactate session (whole body circuit; 30mins), followed by 15mins cardio
Friday - as Monday
Saturday - as Monday
Sunday (carb day)- hypertrophy session (whole body, slightly higher reps; 60mins)

As stated on previous posts, although Berardi doesn’t advocate striving for ketosis per se on this diet I have chosen to do so and hence limit carb intake to a maximum of 30g, which is made up of green veg and some low GI fruit in the morning.
Ah well, here goes for another week striving for bodily perfection! Why do we do it???

576

Any thoughts? Im currently bulking, following AD rules, and I want to think Im justified in thinking that I can have a massive refeed for supercompensation to make up for lack of weekly carbs. Is this something doable? Ive been doing it this way for two weeks now and my lifts have been going up (whether it be reps or weight) so I suppose it works. Any feedback though? oh and btw FF Fig Newtons :slight_smile: oh yea

577

Had my first ‘refeed’ day yesterday. It wasn’t an all day eating fest, more like 300-400CHO spread throughout the day. Performance in the gym was good, hit a new PB on the bench (92.5kg for 5) so all good. But the most exciting thing was this, i’m already back below baseline. Less than 24 hours later. Baseline was 94.7kg, this morning 94.4kg, and i’m visibly ‘softer’ from the water retention still.

My diet yesterday was

B: 1 cup oatmeal, 2 cups skim milk, 1tbsp blueberrys, 1 tbsp jam, a banana, an orange and 50g protein shake
S: Steak and Onion wrap with salad
L: Chicken Salad (Breast and a half chicken)- No Dressing
S: Steak and Onion wrap
D: Sirlon Steak, salad, 1.5 tbsp spinach and mushroom pasta
S: Metabolic Drive Bar
S: 50g Protein Shake w/ 2g Xanthan Gum.

I think i’m going to like CC!

578

Guys, what would you say about this comment:

579

[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
Had my first ‘refeed’ day yesterday. It wasn’t an all day eating fest, more like 300-400CHO spread throughout the day. Performance in the gym was good, hit a new PB on the bench (92.5kg for 5) so all good. But the most exciting thing was this, i’m already back below baseline. Less than 24 hours later. Baseline was 94.7kg, this morning 94.4kg, and i’m visibly ‘softer’ from the water retention still.

My diet yesterday was

B: 1 cup oatmeal, 2 cups skim milk, 1tbsp blueberrys, 1 tbsp jam, a banana, an orange and 50g protein shake
S: Steak and Onion wrap with salad
L: Chicken Salad (Breast and a half chicken)- No Dressing
S: Steak and Onion wrap
D: Sirlon Steak, salad, 1.5 tbsp spinach and mushroom pasta
S: Metabolic Drive Bar
S: 50g Protein Shake w/ 2g Xanthan Gum.

I think i’m going to like CC![/quote]

I’m pretty new to CKDs and read a lot about this ‘baseline’ weight measurement. Could you explain this to me and what it signifies?

Many thanks

JB

580

Your “baseline” is your weight before your refeed. You use it to determine how effective or detrimental your refeed is. For example, when I refeed on Sunday, if I hit my baseline by Wednesday then everything is alright. However, if you’re heavier than before, that means you probably overdid it. Conversely, if you baseline early, that means you didn’t do enough. Make sense?