[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
elusive wrote:
LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Umm I’m using the info from the article A Beginners Guide to Carb Cycling where Starnes talks about carb cycling at Dave Tate’s gym…
Yeah, thats troponin carb rotation. Only count carbs from carb sources, protein from protein sources and fat from fat sources. They don’t count the “incidentals”.
what are your guy’s thoughts on this sort of macro counting? Seems really imprecise… like on refeed days where we shoot for as little fat as possible, I’ve been counting the incidental fats in everything. is this correct? Seems like that approach is more suited to mass phases…[/quote]
Well, their logic is people tend to eat the same group of foods while dieting. You don’t count incidentals and make your life much easier by relaxing your mind. You lose some weight, great. Weightloss slows down? Just adjust your servings, making them smaller. Still not counting incidentals, still life is easy. Its an easy way to diet down, really clever. This is one of the reasons that Shelby and Justin have so much success.
Shelby doesn’t recommend refeed days, high days though. On his high days you wouldn’t count incidental fat, but not ADD any fat to your meals. You would also make sure you were using the leanest cuts of meat and/or whey protein.
On my refeed day, I don’t count fat. I DO however only eat foods that are fat free or what I feel IMO are low fat enough per carbs offered. I also don’t count protein. However, this is how I do things, not Shelby.
On my refeed day, I don’t count fat. I DO however only eat foods that are fat free or what I feel IMO are low fat enough per carbs offered. I also don’t count protein. However, this is how I do things, not Shelby. [/quote]
so whats an acceptable ratio for you? For instance, I found some pretty good LF kettle chips that are 3g fat to 21g carbs, 4 servings in a bag.
I guess alot of it would have to do with relative fat content of the rest of the days meals too though…
on a side note, howd your low carb pizza turn out? I’ve heard iffy things about the FF mozzo cheese
I just try to keep it as low fat as possible. There isn’t a rule that says X amount of fat per serving. Use your judgment. Personally, I avoid anything with more than a few grams per serving. Especially if the serving is small. It is about overall fat intake for the day, but at the same time, high fat slows down the digestion of CHO, which is not what you want on a refeed day. So a single meal with higher fat isn’t going to be as effective in what you’re trying to achieve.
I have never had fat free mozzarella, but kraft makes a natural fat free cheddar that is pretty good.
On my refeed day, I don’t count fat. I DO however only eat foods that are fat free or what I feel IMO are low fat enough per carbs offered. I also don’t count protein. However, this is how I do things, not Shelby.
so whats an acceptable ratio for you? For instance, I found some pretty good LF kettle chips that are 3g fat to 21g carbs, 4 servings in a bag.
I guess alot of it would have to do with relative fat content of the rest of the days meals too though…
on a side note, howd your low carb pizza turn out? I’ve heard iffy things about the FF mozzo cheese[/quote]
I don’t have a set in stone rule about the fat/carb ratio but like you said, if the relative fat content of the day is really low (lots of fat free meals) I wouldn’t mind getting something with say 5g Fat/ 21g CHO.
The pizza came out OK. It was good, mostly because of how restrictive I was during the week. The FF mozzarella cheese was “different”, but not too bad. Still enjoyable.
On my refeeds I have a set of rules. I can eat it if it has zero fat OR 5g or less of fat per serving. If it’s the latter, I try to restrict my intake of that stuff.
On my refeed day, I don’t count fat. I DO however only eat foods that are fat free or what I feel IMO are low fat enough per carbs offered. I also don’t count protein. However, this is how I do things, not Shelby.
so whats an acceptable ratio for you? For instance, I found some pretty good LF kettle chips that are 3g fat to 21g carbs, 4 servings in a bag.
I guess alot of it would have to do with relative fat content of the rest of the days meals too though…
on a side note, howd your low carb pizza turn out? I’ve heard iffy things about the FF mozzo cheese[/quote]
Over at IM the general consensus was not go over around 15% of total calories. Do you concur elusive?
On my refeed day, I don’t count fat. I DO however only eat foods that are fat free or what I feel IMO are low fat enough per carbs offered. I also don’t count protein. However, this is how I do things, not Shelby.
so whats an acceptable ratio for you? For instance, I found some pretty good LF kettle chips that are 3g fat to 21g carbs, 4 servings in a bag.
I guess alot of it would have to do with relative fat content of the rest of the days meals too though…
on a side note, howd your low carb pizza turn out? I’ve heard iffy things about the FF mozzo cheese
Over at IM the general consensus was not go over around 15% of total calories. Do you concur elusive?[/quote]
lol. I concur. I get alot of my information from that board. Of course Skip is king of the refeed.
I have never had fat free mozzarella, but kraft makes a natural fat free cheddar that is pretty good.[/quote]
damn, my grocery store must suck. No FF mozzo or cheddar. looks like ill hafta do some shopping… haha, In the past week I spent a few hours literally walking up and down every aisle looking for low fat foods in 3 different stores haha. Is it bad that I already have my next refeed all planned lol
I like the 15% of total calories thing- my last refeed was 12% fat and I hit my baseline dead on this morning, meaning three more days of fatloss till my next refeed. solid.
so, what has been your guys favorite refeed food of all so far?
Good old pancakes and syrup might be mine, although I’m really looking forward to FF caramel corn and these really LF chocolate teddy graham imitation cookies.
[quote]heavyset wrote:
Haven’t noticed anybody mention soft drinks or sweets on refeed days. Are these a no-no?[/quote]
hmmmm, I still stick to diet sodas out of habit, I’ve actually come to prefer the taste over the regular ones. Dunno for refeed purposes, I’m pretty sure HFCS in them is a less than ideal carb source, but so are alot of the carbs we’re refeeding with anyways
I was worried I was eating too much on my refeeds… When I told Skip my menu, he pretty much laughed and told me that he has some 100lb figure chicks eating 2-3x what I was putting down. Needless to say I will be unleashing hell from now on!
I think the whole planning and idea of a refeed make dieting way more fun, too.[/quote]
agreed, and from more than one angle too. psychological benefit of eating till you’re stuffed on foods you like, glycogen replenishment so you dont feel like ass, hormone upregulation. Hell, knowing I need to be as depleted as possible for the refeed to really earn it has kept me 100% on my diet during the week.
I actually want to keep eating like this for longer than my diet plan entails because of the carbs i can get away with eating in a glycogen depleted state haha
I’ve traditionally not handled carbs very well, yet those are almost my exact macros lifting days. For instance, the food I ate yesterday came out to be:
2084 cals
68.5 fat
121 carbs
239 protein
That was with 20 mins fasted cardio in the morning, and 20 mins incline treadmill walking post workout.
I train 4 days a week with these stats, and two off/sprint days with minimal carbs, and then my refeed day of 800-1000g carbs. I do train on my refeed day. So far I’m losing scale weight at a rate of 2 lbs/week, and im getting noticeably leaner.[/quote]
Just wondering were you ever significantly overweight/fat?
so basically your doing 2 days a week of sprints and 4 days a week of morning cardio + workout + PWO incline walking?
[quote]esk221 wrote:
I was worried I was eating too much on my refeeds… When I told Skip my menu, he pretty much laughed and told me that he has some 100lb figure chicks eating 2-3x what I was putting down. Needless to say I will be unleashing hell from now on![/quote]
What were your refeeds like?
Soon I’m going to add in 2 “lactate inducing workouts” I think from CT’s “destroying fat” article so I may start taking in more carbs on my refeed with that. I’ve also just started playing ultimate frisbee for my “gym” class 2x a week on average now while reducing calories so i don’t want to change too much at once.
