Haven’t taken a photo or checked my weight but I feel like I have been low-carbing it by the way I look and how “tight” I am starting to feel, even though I have been including 2 refeed days. For instance at 4:30 PM today I am probably 1100-1200 calories lower than where I was yesterday at 3 PM and I feel absolutely fantastic. No problems with energy/lethargy and I look significantly leaner. Can’t say enough good things about carb cycling!
I think I’ll have the refeed days every saturday. I feel like absolute hell on day 4 of 7.
The only carbs I’ve had today were from the 12 almonds I had.
It seems to me people might be putting a little bit too much emphasis on the depletion aspect during the week in order to earn a refeed. Personally, I believe calories during the week are more important that grams of CHO. Yes, I also keep them very low on my down days, but peri-workout carbs are so important!* You shouldn’t sacrifice muscle gain for weight loss. Carb cycling is more of a body recompisition process rather than a weight loss program, which is why I prefer it to the more traditional “dieting.”
As long as you’re keeping calories lower than maintenance during the week, get the carbs in around your workout to really make use of the hard work you’re putting in at the gym. Oh, and add cardio on off days…you’ll blaze through the fat if you have quite a bit to lose! Unless you’re carrying >185 lbs of lean muscle mass, destroying yourself in the gym weekly, and keeping cals well below maintenance during the week…you might be taking your refeed a bit too far if you’re ingesting over 1,000 g CHO in 12 hours. The refeed is necessary for physiological and hormonal responses moreso than the psychological (but that helps too)!
- IF YOU’RE TRAINING HARD ENOUGH!
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
spadesofaces wrote:
I’ve traditionally not handled carbs very well, yet those are almost my exact macros lifting days. For instance, the food I ate yesterday came out to be:
2084 cals
68.5 fat
121 carbs
239 protein
That was with 20 mins fasted cardio in the morning, and 20 mins incline treadmill walking post workout.
I train 4 days a week with these stats, and two off/sprint days with minimal carbs, and then my refeed day of 800-1000g carbs. I do train on my refeed day. So far I’m losing scale weight at a rate of 2 lbs/week, and im getting noticeably leaner.
Just wondering were you ever significantly overweight/fat?
so basically your doing 2 days a week of sprints and 4 days a week of morning cardio + workout + PWO incline walking?[/quote]
not really, I’ve been skinny fat my whole life. Over the past year I added about 40 pounds to my frame, probably 25-30 or so was muscle, and now I’m dieting off the fat. A year ago I was 145-150 and probably around 13-15% BF, and I started dieting at 185 lbs 13-14%, am at about 170 at about 7-8%. I’m probably only going to do this for another 2 weeks or so, then I’m gonna gradually switch to conventional carb cycling for mass.
It sounds like alot of activity when you phrase it like that, but I’m essentially doing: 4 45 minute weight sessions a week, 4 40 minute carido sessions a week, and I typically only do one HIIT session and make the other day completely off. Not an unheard of amount of activity for someone dieting.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
What were your refeeds like?
[/quote]
Box of Chex Mix Bars
Box of Low Fat Granola Bars
Box of Chocolate Lucky Charms w/ Vanilla MD poured over it
Spgahetti marinara w/ chicken breast
No Pudge Fat Free Fudge Brownies w/ Fat Free Chocolate Ice Cream
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
not really, I’ve been skinny fat my whole life. Over the past year I added about 40 pounds to my frame, probably 25-30 or so was muscle, and now I’m dieting off the fat. A year ago I was 145-150 and probably around 13-15% BF, and I started dieting at 185 lbs 13-14%, am at about 170 at about 7-8%. I’m probably only going to do this for another 2 weeks or so, then I’m gonna gradually switch to conventional carb cycling for mass.
It sounds like alot of activity when you phrase it like that, but I’m essentially doing: 4 45 minute weight sessions a week, 4 40 minute carido sessions a week, and I typically only do one HIIT session and make the other day completely off. Not an unheard of amount of activity for someone dieting.[/quote]
Yea I guess your right if you add up the 2 cardio sessions you do a day
I really wonder if my genetics are so much shittier than most b/c I was fat by 5th grade or if I just ate significantly more when I was young than most people who were just “skinny fat” or a little over weight
[quote]esk221 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
What were your refeeds like?
Box of Chex Mix Bars
Box of Low Fat Granola Bars
Box of Chocolate Lucky Charms w/ Vanilla MD poured over it
Spgahetti marinara w/ chicken breast
No Pudge Fat Free Fudge Brownies w/ Fat Free Chocolate Ice Cream [/quote]
and he said that was nothing? 14oz. box of lucky charms is around 320g carbs I think but I’m guessing you have a bigger box since you said it added up to over 500
so all of that has got to be about 800-1000+g and he said that wasn’t very much?
Totals Today:
Cals: 1974
FAT: 76
CHO: 87
PRO: 254
It seems as though all my carbs besides my 1/2 cup of oats in the morning (27g) and a 1/4 cup of frozen blueberries (7-10g) are coming from incidentals from veggies. Any input on my macros?
MD
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Yea I guess your right if you add up the 2 cardio sessions you do a day
I really wonder if my genetics are so much shittier than most b/c I was fat by 5th grade or if I just ate significantly more when I was young than most people who were just “skinny fat” or a little over weight
[/quote]
I think people overplay genetics role in all of this. They make a difference, but not as big of one as everyone makes you think. Everyone has the same basic physiology. Only when you start getting to extremes do they play a larger role. For example, I think anyone can become an amazing athlete given the dedication, effort, and time. But the difference between them and an olympic gold medalist is where genetics comes in.
And anyone can get lean. It is just a matter of figuring out what works for you and working hard enough. To a degree, how hard you have to work and how fast it happens is partly genetics, but like I said it’s smaller than you think. So keep at it. Focus on the stuff that works for you, and toss the shit that doesn’t.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I really wonder if my genetics are so much shittier than most b/c I was fat by 5th grade or if I just ate significantly more when I was young than most people who were just “skinny fat” or a little over weight
and he said that was nothing? 14oz. box of lucky charms is around 320g carbs I think but I’m guessing you have a bigger box since you said it added up to over 500
so all of that has got to be about 800-1000+g and he said that wasn’t very much?[/quote]
I’m kinda wondering the role genetics plays myself, and I really want to do reading about the whole “bodyfat set point” idea…
As a young kid I was really lean cause I did soccer, martial arts, and some baseball. By high school I quit all that and adopted some shitty eating habits ie donuts and milk every day for breakfast, carbs and sugar for lunch etc etc by the time I hit soph year college and started learning about nutrition and weightlifting last year I was your typical skinny fat, and my body seems to gravitate around 12-14% BF. When i add calories to my diet, the fat adds on quickly, but never seems to get much above that 12-14% point.
Now I have a friend, same age, who was a state level wrestler in high school meaning he was routinely down to <5% BF for meets, and ran cross country for his first two years of college. Ever since I’ve known him at beginning of soph year he’s never had >7% BF ie, ripped albeit relatively little muscle mass.
Now, when he ran he routinely ate pizza, burgers, ice cream, drank weekly and kept fat off due to his massive amount of running. But for the past year he hasn’t been doing any sport, running or otherwise, and still continues to eat this sort of junk food, and has remained at <8% all the while. Genetics? Bodyfat set point? Anyone know anything about this sort of thing?
As to the 800-1000g carbs, I’ve been reading guy’s logs at IM… 1000g is on the low end, with >2000g seeming to be pretty standard. effin crazy…
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
so all of that has got to be about 800-1000+g and he said that wasn’t very much?[/quote]
Well, I keep getting leaner. So it must be working!
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Nay. YOU sir, are king of the refeed, at least relative to your size. I think Skip would bow down. Maybe.
[/quote]
Look up Myth, formerly known as DantesDisciple. I think he has routinely topped 3,000g CHO per refeed. I think he has gotten as high as 5,000g CHO. He. Is. A. Nut.
We’re about the same weight/height so he clearly wins… lmao.
[quote]esk221 wrote:
www.vitalicious.com/store-vitamuffins.html
Motherfucking VITAMUFFINS!
Sushi, Pancakes, and Cereal w/ Vanilla MD poured over it are also staples.[/quote]
I’ve tried 2 different grocery stores looking for vitamuffins. Their site says both carry them, but neither had any. I wanted them for my refeed this weekend, but it looks like I’ll just have to order some and wait for next week.
This is kind of cool. I was doing this except I didn’t even know it. I was eating between 50-150g of carbs per day, sometimes 200g with low calories, very low and once per week maintenance calories .
Then after a week or two I would feel like crap and go get ice cream, chocolate covered pretzels,pizzeria rolls, garlic knots more ice cream. I would feel like crap afterwords thinking I was cheating but got back to my diet the next day. I also wouldn’t step on the scale for about a week because I was scared.
Once I felt leaner again I would step on the scale(usually a week to a week and half) and find my weight down 2 lbs or so from the previous weight in.
Right now I HAVE to gain weight but when it comes time to shed some fat I’m doing some sort of carb cycling.
Something simple like this:
Sunday-Friday: carbs bellow 30g with low calories
Sat: Re-feed
I’ll pretty much count my calorie spending for the week, so If I weight 165lbs and my maintenance is around 2500 per day then ill multiply 2000-x7(2000 calories per day to lose fat) which leaves me at 14000 calories for the week .
Ill try and eat as low calories as possible during the week then add up the calories of Sunday-Friday to see how many weekly calories I’ve spend and how many I have left to eat on Saturday. So for example:
Sunday:1700
Monday 1700 calories
Tuesday:1800 calories
Wed: 1700
Thursday:1600
Friday:1700
Sat:3800 Re-feed
That puts me at a weekly deficit of 3500 calories per week.
This is all an example of course but hope you get the idea.
[quote]elusive wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
Nay. YOU sir, are king of the refeed, at least relative to your size. I think Skip would bow down. Maybe.
Look up Myth, formerly known as DantesDisciple. I think he has routinely topped 3,000g CHO per refeed. I think he has gotten as high as 5,000g CHO. He. Is. A. Nut.
We’re about the same weight/height so he clearly wins… lmao.[/quote]
Young Pad-wan, you will get there.
I will endorse you as a challenger to the Refeed Throne.
Since I began to be more strict with my fat intake on refeed days, I’ve been able to eat more AND I feel less bloated. It’s crazy, I really don’t even retain that much water.
Another fascinating aspect is the fact I can literally feel my metabolism going nuts. My skin gets hot to the touch, my heart races, and I begin to sweat a little bit!
[quote]esk221 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
so all of that has got to be about 800-1000+g and he said that wasn’t very much?
Well, I keep getting leaner. So it must be working![/quote]
Yea I’m just surprised he would act like its almost nothing. It’s good that it’s working though, in that case I don’t know why you would change it
[quote]esk221 wrote:
Since I began to be more strict with my fat intake on refeed days, I’ve been able to eat more AND I feel less bloated. It’s crazy, I really don’t even retain that much water.
Another fascinating aspect is the fact I can literally feel my metabolism going nuts. My skin gets hot to the touch, my heart races, and I begin to sweat a little bit! [/quote]
Man I always feel this after my first high GI carb meal! I’ll be sitting my happy ass on the couch watching TV after gorging on some low fat ice cream and my heart will just be beating out of my chest.
I’m also FAMISHED on refeed days recently. I’ve had to control my hunger because I’d literally be hungry an hour after a 100+ CHO meal. Your metabolism really goes buck wild.
Progress Update for GSD
My refeed is two days away. These past two weeks has been absolutely awful. No motivation to do anything, crappy workouts, and excessive cardio has beaten me down into a pulp. It is my own fault though.
I took things to far with cardio (about an hour a day fasted) plus trying to lift heavy 5 days a week on about 1800 calories and thats counting fiber. The first week after my refeed I can handle it but this second weak has nearly killed me. I am switching to a refeed every week now, basically imitating what elusive has been doing. I know I am under 10% BF now, though, so I feel like a refeed every week is warranted.
I have about 1600 grams of carbs ready for saturday though I doubt I will get through all of it. After this one I am going to ease up on the refeeds and stick to probably the 700-800 grams of carbs range since they are now happening weekly instead of bi-monthly.
After the hell I have went through this week I am allowing the sky to be the limit on carbs come Saturday. I just do not know how I am going to get through leg day yet tomorrow. lol.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Progress Update for GSD
[/quote]
Was your goal fat loss? If so, what has been your average caloric intake, in terms of xBW ?
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Progress Update for GSD
My refeed is two days away. These past two weeks has been absolutely awful. No motivation to do anything, crappy workouts, and excessive cardio has beaten me down into a pulp. It is my own fault though.
I took things to far with cardio (about an hour a day fasted) plus trying to lift heavy 5 days a week on about 1800 calories and thats counting fiber. The first week after my refeed I can handle it but this second weak has nearly killed me. I am switching to a refeed every week now, basically imitating what elusive has been doing. I know I am under 10% BF now, though, so I feel like a refeed every week is warranted.
I have about 1600 grams of carbs ready for saturday though I doubt I will get through all of it. After this one I am going to ease up on the refeeds and stick to probably the 700-800 grams of carbs range since they are now happening weekly instead of bi-monthly.
After the hell I have went through this week I am allowing the sky to be the limit on carbs come Saturday. I just do not know how I am going to get through leg day yet tomorrow. lol. [/quote]
sounds like a smart move. Heavy lifting plus an hour of cardio a day is going to be hard and taxing enough WITH a weekly carb up, and especially at 1800 calories I wouldn’t think once every 2 weeks is a good idea. Also seems like a good idea to keep it around 7-800 and go from there, let us now how it goes.
By the way I haven’t read some of the posts yet, what is GSD? Is there a link to it?