Yes, I agree with you in general. I thought the GDAs also helped to “shuttle” carbs into your muscles. Or am I mistaken? That’s the effect I was shooting for.
Does anything even do that? R-ALA, caffeine, EGCG? Beyond merely regulating insulin?
Or is insulin the only thing responsible for your muscles’ ability to soak up glycogen?
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
[/quote]
Pro: 275g
Fat: 65g
CHO: 120g
^Usually.
Sometimes carbs will be lower (Wednesday, when I don’t weight lift). Sometimes I’ll skip some added fats at night if I don’t feel too hungry for what ever reason.
[quote]elusive wrote:
ajweins wrote:
Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
Pro: 275g
Fat: 65g
CHO: 120g
^Usually.
Sometimes carbs will be lower (Wednesday, when I don’t weight lift). Sometimes I’ll skip some added fats at night if I don’t feel too hungry for what ever reason. [/quote]
Thanks. I am going to try going keto style with maybe a couple isocaloric days between protein and fats, keeping carbs under 50 grams and see what happens.
[quote]elusive wrote:
ajweins wrote:
Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
Pro: 275g
Fat: 65g
CHO: 120g
^Usually.
Sometimes carbs will be lower (Wednesday, when I don’t weight lift). Sometimes I’ll skip some added fats at night if I don’t feel too hungry for what ever reason. [/quote]
Thats all the fat and carbs you eat all week? man the fats so low but I guess your still running on carbs instead of fat when they’re at 120g.
Have most of you guys compared fat loss with carbs during the week + refeeds to no carbs during the week + refeeds? I know elusive handles carbs really well but I’m sure for some of you guys who aren’t as carb tolerant would lose fat faster by not having carbs during the week AND a large “dirty” refeed.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
elusive wrote:
ajweins wrote:
Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
Pro: 275g
Fat: 65g
CHO: 120g
^Usually.
Sometimes carbs will be lower (Wednesday, when I don’t weight lift). Sometimes I’ll skip some added fats at night if I don’t feel too hungry for what ever reason.
Thats all the fat and carbs you eat all week? man the fats so low but I guess your still running on carbs instead of fat when they’re at 120g.
Have most of you guys compared fat loss with carbs during the week + refeeds to no carbs during the week + refeeds? I know elusive handles carbs really well but I’m sure for some of you guys who aren’t as carb tolerant would lose fat faster by not having carbs during the week AND a large “dirty” refeed. [/quote]
Or why not just do SS cardio twice a day, about 8-10 hours apart?
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
elusive wrote:
ajweins wrote:
Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
Pro: 275g
Fat: 65g
CHO: 120g
^Usually.
Sometimes carbs will be lower (Wednesday, when I don’t weight lift). Sometimes I’ll skip some added fats at night if I don’t feel too hungry for what ever reason.
Thats all the fat and carbs you eat all week? man the fats so low but I guess your still running on carbs instead of fat when they’re at 120g.
Have most of you guys compared fat loss with carbs during the week + refeeds to no carbs during the week + refeeds? I know elusive handles carbs really well but I’m sure for some of you guys who aren’t as carb tolerant would lose fat faster by not having carbs during the week AND a large “dirty” refeed.
Or why not just do SS cardio twice a day, about 8-10 hours apart?
[/quote]
Why not do a potentially more effective diet, spend less time doing cardio (who wants to do cardio, workout, then do cardio again…occasionally for peaking for a contest sure but its not necessary to get to the level of leanness most people here want), and not worry about possible muscle loss from too much cardio?
I’m not saying it’s necessarily better, but I would bet some people on here with slower metabolisms would see better results by not having such drastic refeeds + carbs during the week. I don’t see a problem with carbs around workouts plus a refeed (it’s what I’m doing now), I just think that if someone is having carbs during the week they don’t need 1000+g of carbs on a refeed. There’s of course exceptions though
I haven’t compared them. I am at about 30g carbs from trace sources and veggies on low days and 70g from the same +40g CHO from my post workout shake on lifting days. 3 Lifting days and 3 low days, then 1 refeed at about 500-600 CHO. My fat loss has been great, and I don’t generally handle carbs all that well.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
Or why not just do SS cardio twice a day, about 8-10 hours apart?
Why not do a potentially more effective diet, spend less time doing cardio (who wants to do cardio, workout, then do cardio again…occasionally for peaking for a contest sure but its not necessary to get to the level of leanness most people here want), and not worry about possible muscle loss from too much cardio?
[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think muscle loss is a serious issue with SS cardio until you are under 15%, but that is all anecdotal and for another thread.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
Or why not just do SS cardio twice a day, about 8-10 hours apart?
Why not do a potentially more effective diet, spend less time doing cardio (who wants to do cardio, workout, then do cardio again…occasionally for peaking for a contest sure but its not necessary to get to the level of leanness most people here want), and not worry about possible muscle loss from too much cardio?
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think muscle loss is a serious issue with SS cardio until you are under 15%, but that is all anecdotal and for another thread.[/quote]
well 15% is pretty high lol. I’m not trying to say this is a bad method at all by the way, initially the way I was thinking of carb cycling was more like the Carb cycling codex by CT, not what has been described here which is basically a CKD with some carbs PWO.
[quote]HulkSmash7 wrote:
I haven’t compared them. I am at about 30g carbs from trace sources and veggies on low days and 70g from the dame +40g CHO from my post workout shake on lifting days. 3 Lifting days and 3 low days, then 1 refeed at about 500-600 CHO. My fat loss has been great, and I don’t generally handle carbs all that well.[/quote]
Thats similar to what I’m doing. 40 on off days, 100 on workout days (3 a week and 1 on refeed), and 320 on refeeds. Fat loss has been too slow the last 11-12 weeks but I think that has more to do with calories being too high for me because weight wasn’t going down much in general. Also your bigger than me so the 500g isn’t very unreasonable IMO.
how much fat are you having during the week? Mines currently at 100g
also now that I think about it I just dropped to 100g on workout days this saturday. Before that my “trainer” has me at 150g on those days and about 2750 calories so I’m not too surprised the fat wasn’t coming off fast enough
Question on a low carb day where I’m supposed to have around 35g of fat do I count every fat source steak, eggs, ect. or just fat sources like Nuts, and fish oils/olive oils???
Makes a big difference I’m thinking you count the fat in your meat to but If not I can get away with some more almonds 
Going to start a pretty laid out carb cycling plan with two high days a week come tommorow want to make sure its right-on. Thanks guys.
EDIT: nevermind, didn’t realize the type of cycling you were following.
That seems like a weird method to me, to only count fat from direct sources but not meats which would definitely add up
[quote]LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Question on a low carb day where I’m supposed to have around 35g of fat do I count every fat source steak, eggs, ect. or just fat sources like Nuts, and fish oils/olive oils???
Makes a big difference I’m thinking you count the fat in your meat to but If not I can get away with some more almonds
Going to start a pretty laid out carb cycling plan with two high days a week come tommorow want to make sure its right-on. Thanks guys.[/quote]
Are you doing the Troponin Carb Rotation? If so, only count the fat from fat sources like peanut butter, almonds, olive oil, fish oil ect…
Today’s Totals:
Cals: 2897
FAT: 70
CHO: 331
PRO: 252
How do my macros look to you guys. Felt pretty good energy wise just got really full mid-day. Did about 35-40 min of weight training, full body with 1 minute rest b/w rounds then 20 minutes uphill walk because I had time to kill. Practice after that was wrestling takedowns followed by takedown sparring and a 5 minute round on the ground. Kickboxed for 3/5 min rounds with a partner holding pads and one more drill that lasted about 2-3 minutes at high intensity. Good Day, glad to be done!
[quote]elusive wrote:
LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Question on a low carb day where I’m supposed to have around 35g of fat do I count every fat source steak, eggs, ect. or just fat sources like Nuts, and fish oils/olive oils???
Makes a big difference I’m thinking you count the fat in your meat to but If not I can get away with some more almonds
Going to start a pretty laid out carb cycling plan with two high days a week come tommorow want to make sure its right-on. Thanks guys.
Are you doing the Troponin Carb Rotation? If so, only count the fat from fat sources like peanut butter, almonds, olive oil, fish oil ect…[/quote]
I would agree with this for the most part, however Shelby has said he only uses extra lean beef for protein sources (95% ground beef, eye of round steak, top round steak). Also for nuts/nut butters I thought he said to count all of the macros since they do have significant carbs and protein in addition to fat.
FYI - Shelby is doing an interview on carb cycling on the MD radio show next week, here a link to ask questions:
Next Audio Podcast: The Science of Carb Cycling - Muscular Development Forums
Umm I’m using the info from the article A Beginners Guide to Carb Cycling where Starnes talks about carb cycling at Dave Tate’s gym…
[quote]LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Umm I’m using the info from the article A Beginners Guide to Carb Cycling where Starnes talks about carb cycling at Dave Tate’s gym…[/quote]
Yeah, thats troponin carb rotation. Only count carbs from carb sources, protein from protein sources and fat from fat sources. They don’t count the “incidentals”.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
elusive wrote:
ajweins wrote:
Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
Pro: 275g
Fat: 65g
CHO: 120g
^Usually.
Sometimes carbs will be lower (Wednesday, when I don’t weight lift). Sometimes I’ll skip some added fats at night if I don’t feel too hungry for what ever reason.
Thats all the fat and carbs you eat all week? man the fats so low but I guess your still running on carbs instead of fat when they’re at 120g.
Have most of you guys compared fat loss with carbs during the week + refeeds to no carbs during the week + refeeds? I know elusive handles carbs really well but I’m sure for some of you guys who aren’t as carb tolerant would lose fat faster by not having carbs during the week AND a large “dirty” refeed. [/quote]
I’ve traditionally not handled carbs very well, yet those are almost my exact macros lifting days. For instance, the food I ate yesterday came out to be:
2084 cals
68.5 fat
121 carbs
239 protein
That was with 20 mins fasted cardio in the morning, and 20 mins incline treadmill walking post workout.
I train 4 days a week with these stats, and two off/sprint days with minimal carbs, and then my refeed day of 800-1000g carbs. I do train on my refeed day. So far I’m losing scale weight at a rate of 2 lbs/week, and im getting noticeably leaner.
[quote]elusive wrote:
LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Umm I’m using the info from the article A Beginners Guide to Carb Cycling where Starnes talks about carb cycling at Dave Tate’s gym…
Yeah, thats troponin carb rotation. Only count carbs from carb sources, protein from protein sources and fat from fat sources. They don’t count the “incidentals”.[/quote]
Which makes it STUPIDLY simple, given how low incidentals are when you only use whole foods (and, hence, prepare meals yourself) instead of processed junk.
Shelby and Justin rule. Finally some names worth mentioning are getting recognition.
[quote]elusive wrote:
LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Umm I’m using the info from the article A Beginners Guide to Carb Cycling where Starnes talks about carb cycling at Dave Tate’s gym…
Yeah, thats troponin carb rotation. Only count carbs from carb sources, protein from protein sources and fat from fat sources. They don’t count the “incidentals”.[/quote]
what are your guy’s thoughts on this sort of macro counting? Seems really imprecise… like on refeed days where we shoot for as little fat as possible, I’ve been counting the incidental fats in everything. is this correct? Seems like that approach is more suited to mass phases…
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
elusive wrote:
LilDaDDyDreW wrote:
Umm I’m using the info from the article A Beginners Guide to Carb Cycling where Starnes talks about carb cycling at Dave Tate’s gym…
Yeah, thats troponin carb rotation. Only count carbs from carb sources, protein from protein sources and fat from fat sources. They don’t count the “incidentals”.
Which makes it STUPIDLY simple, given how low incidentals are when you only use whole foods (and, hence, prepare meals yourself) instead of processed junk.
Shelby and Justin rule. Finally some names worth mentioning are getting recognition.[/quote]
I guess my main concern with it is for things like ground beef or turkey, red meats, salmon, and dairy. Is cheese a fat or protein source? What about milk? Eggs are weird too, but I remember shelby recommending a mix of whole eggs with whites.