Thanks elusive, I understand the two high days but are you personally going on only one refeed to really deplete and upping your CHOs on that one day? Or are you also doing 2 refeeds as well? Thanks. MD
I only have one refeed day. All the other days I have would be similar to “low” days and I try to deplete glycogen to the best of my ability.
After 2 days of terrible training I have decided to end my Get Shredded Berardi diet this Saturday with my carbup and go back to weekly carbups. This 2 weeks between carbups with about 1800 calories a day is just draining me too much to where my workouts and tanking to the point of where its no longer acceptable for me.
After all, the leaner you get the more often the carb ups should be. I was tested at 9% body fat last week with calipers so I am thinking I need to increase my refeed frequency to every 7 days. I will probably go a little easier on the refeeds now at about 800-1000 grams of carbs instead of about the 1200 mark its been at lately. I will also probably up my protein and lower fats during the week also due to the more frequent carbups. The get shredded diet prescribed about 35% protein and 55% fat (or at least that is what I have been hitting) and I am thinking about narrowing the gap but still keeping calories at around 10xBW during the week. Where do you keep fats during the week elusive? Do you go ketogenic during the week with around 55-65% fats or is protein higher?
I will keep you posted with my progress.
I Could be wrong but it seems the people with the best results are the ones doing more restrictive diets during the week and a bigger refeed one day a week which makes sense and I think would be the better approach to a cut
damn elusive your doing a ton of exercise throughout the week
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I Could be wrong but it seems the people with the best results are the ones doing more restrictive diets during the week and a bigger refeed one day a week which makes sense and I think would be the better approach to a cut
damn elusive your doing a ton of exercise throughout the week[/quote]
It really depends on your goals. The bulk of us are cutting using carb cycling because it’s the most logical way to do it. At the end of the day, the calories are what really matter. Low calories most of the week will cause you to lose fat, if you have extra in the way. A refeed is important for tons of reasons (hormonal balance, anabolism, sanity, reasons we’ve beaten to death). I’d like to hear what kind of results people have had trying to bulk.
It seems a lot of people are worried about exercising on low calories due to the stigma of muscle loss. You’re refilling glycogen every time you train if you properly cycle carbs. If you have a lot of fat to lose, you’re going to lose the fat for energy. With a huge amount of muscle mass, you’re going to burn fat faster without the extra cardio due to metabolic effects…I know the 50kcal/lb of muscle figure has been thrown around and might not be extremely accurate, but you get the point.
I’m also doing 30-60 min of fasted cardio 6Xs a week and an additional 20-30 min after the three total body lifting sessions I’ve been on.
[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
It really depends on your goals. The bulk of us are cutting using carb cycling because it’s the most logical way to do it. At the end of the day, the calories are what really matter. Low calories most of the week will cause you to lose fat, if you have extra in the way. A refeed is important for tons of reasons (hormonal balance, anabolism, sanity, reasons we’ve beaten to death). I’d like to hear what kind of results people have had trying to bulk.
[/quote]
I agree some type of carb cycling is best for cutting but thats really general. Technically keto with a 1 day a week refeed is carb cycling. Right now I’m basically doing 50g of carbs on off days, 100g of carbs on workout days, and 320g of carbs on my one refeed day so yea I guess I’m doing carb cycling now too but it wouldn’t be much different for me to just drop the PWO carbs are call it "keto.
Totals for Today:
Cals: 1850
Fat: 70g
CHO: 65g
PRO: 242g
I’m planning on doing my first re-feed on Saturday, which is my first scheduled re-feed since starting the GSD.
I have a couple questions:
-
What’s everyone’s thoughts on skim milk for the re-feed? I was thinking of drinking 1/2-1 gallon of it with either a box of cereal or a bag of bagels and fat free cream cheese during the morning of the re-feed.
-
Anyone have a reccommendation for a good low-fat frozen pizza? If not, I was thinking buying a pre-made crust and making one with that for lunch, with low fat cheese and extra lean ground beef or turkey sausage.
-
Any reccomendation for eating out during the re-feed? I was thinking of going to olive garden for dinner and downing a huge ass bowl of pasta and unlimited bread sticks, of course this will be the meal where it will be most difficult to keep the fat as low as possible.
I think the olive garden would not be a great choice since I am sure those breadsticks are covered in butter. This is if you are going for a high carb low fat refeed. If you are following the GSD to the letter then you can eat whatever you want that day as long as you stay under 3.5x your normal daily cals.
But if you are going low fat high carb I would recommend not going out or maybe going to IHOP and mowing down pancakes and syrup. That is what I do.
If your body handles milk fine I do not see a problem with that either.
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
I’m planning on doing my first re-feed on Saturday, which is my first scheduled re-feed since starting the GSD.
I have a couple questions:
-
What’s everyone’s thoughts on skim milk for the re-feed? I was thinking of drinking 1/2-1 gallon of it with either a box of cereal or a bag of bagels and fat free cream cheese during the morning of the re-feed.
-
Anyone have a reccommendation for a good low-fat frozen pizza? If not, I was thinking buying a pre-made crust and making one with that for lunch, with low fat cheese and extra lean ground beef or turkey sausage.
-
Any reccomendation for eating out during the re-feed? I was thinking of going to olive garden for dinner and downing a huge ass bowl of pasta and unlimited bread sticks, of course this will be the meal where it will be most difficult to keep the fat as low as possible.
[/quote]
I’ve been knocking back a half gal of skim milk each of my past 2 refeed days so far. Frosted mini wheats n milk, milk n FF cookies, or just a glass here and there. Easy way to get protein on the refeed day too.
Also, look up olive garden’s nutritional info online- alot of their stuff, even the pasta, is laden with fat. but you can possibly find something that fits the macros you’re looking for.
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
I’m planning on doing my first re-feed on Saturday, which is my first scheduled re-feed since starting the GSD.
I have a couple questions:
-
What’s everyone’s thoughts on skim milk for the re-feed? I was thinking of drinking 1/2-1 gallon of it with either a box of cereal or a bag of bagels and fat free cream cheese during the morning of the re-feed.
-
Anyone have a reccommendation for a good low-fat frozen pizza? If not, I was thinking buying a pre-made crust and making one with that for lunch, with low fat cheese and extra lean ground beef or turkey sausage.
-
Any reccomendation for eating out during the re-feed? I was thinking of going to olive garden for dinner and downing a huge ass bowl of pasta and unlimited bread sticks, of course this will be the meal where it will be most difficult to keep the fat as low as possible.
[/quote] -
Skim milk is fine (macro wise).
-
Lean Cuisine has a low fat pizza and a regular pizza. They’re pretty good considering. Healthy Choice also sells a low fat pizza, but I liked the LC pizzas better. My last refeed I made my own pizza and liked it better overall.
-
Sorry, I’ve never eaten out during a refeed.
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
I’m planning on doing my first re-feed on Saturday, which is my first scheduled re-feed since starting the GSD.
I have a couple questions:
-
What’s everyone’s thoughts on skim milk for the re-feed? I was thinking of drinking 1/2-1 gallon of it with either a box of cereal or a bag of bagels and fat free cream cheese during the morning of the re-feed.
-
Anyone have a reccommendation for a good low-fat frozen pizza? If not, I was thinking buying a pre-made crust and making one with that for lunch, with low fat cheese and extra lean ground beef or turkey sausage.
-
Any reccomendation for eating out during the re-feed? I was thinking of going to olive garden for dinner and downing a huge ass bowl of pasta and unlimited bread sticks, of course this will be the meal where it will be most difficult to keep the fat as low as possible.
[/quote] -
Great choice. Stay away from the higher fiber cereals. I’ve done this many times and it’s awesome.
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Make your own using low/fat free cheese, maybe even chicken and bbq sauce?
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All you can eat sushi buffet. Eating out you never know what kind of oils/butter they cook the food with. Pasta noodles from the Olive Garden are probably soaked in oil and the grease coming off of the breadsticks can turn your napkin transparent.
I just read the whole refeed thread at intensemuscle that someone posted. Its good shit.
On a side note, I plan on refeeding saturday instead of friday this week. I’m also going to start HOT-ROX after this week for the last half of my cut.
You guys typically train on refeed days? Obviously it seems a given, but some of you’re eating a shitload of food which makes the task sound pretty hard.
[quote]heavyset wrote:
You guys typically train on refeed days? Obviously it seems a given, but some of you’re eating a shitload of food which makes the task sound pretty hard.[/quote]
Why does it seem a given? Because of insulin sensitivity post-training? Or because of increased appetite from working out?
Do fasted, SS cardio for 40-60 min in the morning and you should be good the rest of the day appetite-wise.
Your muscles should technically soak up all those carbs because they have been carb depleted from the week’s workouts.
The rest of you:
I know elusive once posted about using GDAs (glucose disposal agents) during high carb days (namely refeed days). Any of you do the same?
For instance, taking in bitter melon and fenugreek about 20-30 min before eating, or even R-ALA or 400-600 mg caffeine or cinnamon (1 tsp w/ meals).
Anyone?
Heavyset, from what I understand and have been doing is making that your hardest day of the training week. Although I am eating a significant amount of food compared to my normal schedule, I try to get a lot during breakfast and post-workout. For me to reach my numbers though I am constantly having a carb source at every meal.
Heavyset- All the answers to your questions have been posted here in the thread. Read through it. I personally, do not train on my refeed day. I’m not afraid of gaining fat on this day and use it just for metabolism reseting. I do enough throughout the week.
Ponce- I know I told you I was using Chromium and Vanadyl during my refeeds, but I can’t recommend them. Maybe other GDA’s are worth it or maybe Chromium/Vanadyl would work for someone else (deficient in them). I honestly don’t notice anything at all. Then again, my carb tolerance is very good to begin with.
I still use them during my refeed days because I still have half a bottle of them left over. I don’t intend on picking them up again.
[quote]elusive wrote:
Heavyset- All the answers to your questions have been posted here in the thread. Read through it. I personally, do not train on my refeed day. I’m not afraid of gaining fat on this day and use it just for metabolism reseting. I do enough throughout the week.[/quote]
I suppose I could cool off a bit. I’ve read it through, but guestions just keep on knocking heh. I really appreciate your input bro. Learned a lot already!
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
heavyset wrote:
You guys typically train on refeed days? Obviously it seems a given, but some of you’re eating a shitload of food which makes the task sound pretty hard.
Why does it seem a given? Because of insulin sensitivity post-training? Or because of increased appetite from working out?
Do fasted, SS cardio for 40-60 min in the morning and you should be good the rest of the day appetite-wise.
Your muscles should technically soak up all those carbs because they have been carb depleted from the week’s workouts.
The rest of you:
I know elusive once posted about using GDAs (glucose disposal agents) during high carb days (namely refeed days). Any of you do the same?
For instance, taking in bitter melon and fenugreek about 20-30 min before eating, or even R-ALA or 400-600 mg caffeine or cinnamon (1 tsp w/ meals).
Anyone?[/quote]
I really like the idea of training on refeed days due to the anabolic effect it could have, in addition to resetting your metabolism. But, plenty of guys at IM and elusive here seem to have great results doing it on off days, so I guess its really personal preference.
As far as the GDAs, I thought the purpose of most of those was to increase insulin sensitivity. A refeed day with 800+g carbs is going to jack up insulin all day regardless. It’d be like trying to fart against a hurricane. I could be wrong though, as I dont have an in-depth understanding of how those compounds work.
I’m a fan of fasted cardio on refeed day. I usually do 35 mins of 3.5 mph at 10% incline before breakfast and lifting later on, or a (dare I say it) crossfit style workout before breakfast and 30-40mins of low intensity later. I feel better on refeed days when I workout.