Any noticeable strength gains from the Carbolin 19?
[quote]sniper1 wrote:
Any noticeable strength gains from the Carbolin 19?[/quote]
Considering the fact that he made no apparent gains, I’d guess no.
I think Carbolin 19 is a good product based on my results, but the OP needs to drastically alter his diet and/or training in order to start making progress.
I’m currently running 3 bottles of Carbolin 19 myself. The only reason why I’m trying it out is because of the “buy 2 get one free” deal. I’m only a few days in.
Honestly, I’m not expecting much from it. I’m going into this very skeptically as to not attribute any results to the “placebo effect.”
Wow, great feedback from the group, as usual!
One common thread I’m noticing in the comments is that I’m being a bit “ridiculous” even bothering to take Carbolin 19 right now. My hopes when I started this was that it would help me break through my body fat percentage plateau, and over the last few months I have logged some improvement here (3% to 4% lower BF). But since I’m still around the 19% range, I guess the group isn’t too impressed with my rate of progress… And I agree!
Another message I’m receiving loud and clear: Ditch the protein bars. Since I get these from Biotest, I assumed (stupid, I know) that this was a good, healthy protein source for me. Wrong, I guess.
So, would everyone agree with Madman2’s recommendation to do all my protein supplementation with Metabolic Drive Complete? Sounds like two full servings (6 scoops) a day of this? And do I really need to mix in some Low-Carb Metabolic Drive with this, or just keep it simple and do all Metabolic Drive Complete?
Conversely, Lonnie123 recommends real foods to protein supplementation: chicken, lean beef, turkey, cheese. This makes a lot of sense, but I can’t see achieving the full 165 grams/day of protein this way (assuming recommended formula of 1 gram of protein per one pound of body weight). Maybe I should emphasize the real foods as much as possible and then supplement these with the protein powder? Seem to make sense to me…
Another assumption I’m noticing with the group is that I don’t know how to lose weight. Not exactly accurate: I do know how to lose weight, just very badly. Recall that I used to be 250 pounds (all fat, no muscle) and am now 165 pounds. That’s a huge weight loss!! However, I did this by virtually starving myself and by doing 10 hours/week of cardio. By the time I was done, all I’d achieved was the “skinny fat” physique and I was stuck there. That’s when I decided to start trying to add some muscle…
40 years old and “genetically ungifted” in the area of muscle mass (though I’m not using that as an excuse!), and one can begin to understand some of why I’m having the challenges reducing my BF%. At one point, I’d actually gotten down to 145 pounds. Completely scrawny, and STILL with a flabby mid-section.
So, I started working out, adding in protein, stopped eating like a six-year-old girl. How else am I going to add muscle?? But adding in calories, has, of course, greatly added to the challenge of getting rid of the flab that’s hiding whatever abs I might have…
Okay, whining session over. No excuses!!! I can and will get down to 10%-ish BF!!
One last comment: Lonnie123, your comments/advice are always particularly helpful. Your words “You’re not working hard enough!” are still bouncing around in my brain from a couple of months ago. I’m sure you’re right, and I’m working harder now (at the gym, with my diet, etc.) than I ever have. I’m putting in at least six solid hours a week of training. Most of this is weight-lifting, but the kind where I’m panting and sweating non-stop for the whole workout.
I’m at the gym three days a week for a split routine that lasts just about two hours. I do a 5-minute warm-up on a treadmill before starting, but limit my straight cardio to this… I love to run and would add a three-mile run into this mix (at least two days a week) if I didn’t keep reading in T-Nation articles about how this will kill my muscle gains (which, alas, are pretty sparse anyway)… Comments on this? Should I run anyway??
is it possible that you are not taking in enough calories? if the body thinks it’s starving (not eating enough) - fat gets held onto.
just a thought.
I eat one or two Metabolic Drive Bars a day, but in your case I’d eliminate them in favor of protein and vegetables. With as much trouble as you seem to have dropping fat, it’s a good bet that you’re carb sensitive. So, I’d ditch the bars and most other carbohydrate sources other than fruits and vegetables.
You seriously need a major diet overhaul based on your lack of results. Otherwise, why waste time in the gym if you’re not making any progress?
It’s not a long-term solution, but you seem like someone that would benefit from the Velocity Diet. Why don’t you give it a shot? After all, what do you have to lose?
I also think it’s silly that you’re so worried about cardio when you’re not making any muscle gains worth mentioning.
On the protein bars: they ain’t bad, but it may not be correct right now. The protein powder would also give you a little bit more freedom to structure your meals to better suit your lifestyle.
On the protein powders: Realistically, no you really don’t need the powders at all. Maybe something for post workout, but not really needed any other time. However you did mention having a hard time getting in 165 grams of protein through whole food, so they will help you.
The Metabolic Drive Complete was only one shake (3 scoops) a day. It was the regular Metabolic Drive (or Low-Carb Metabolic Drive if you prefer) that was upwards of six scoops a day. You certainly don’t have to use that much if you don’t feel like it. In fact six scoops could be to much for that 165 grams that you were wanting as it would give you 120 grams of protein from that alone.
Add in an Metabolic Drive Complete shake and you have 160 grams in powders. So maybe 1 Metabolic Drive Complete (with only 2 scoops instead of 3) shake a day and maybe cut the other times in half. Also, have you thought of taking in more than 1 gram/pound of protein?
Read up on “G-Flux” in the archives.
Switch out the running for interval training or complex/Lactic Acid training as these are higher intensity.
Instead of the regular velocity diet, look up the Velocity Diet Lite. You should have no problem getting the protein you need in on that diet and when you only eat 3 meals a day and drink 2 shakes it makes it harder to cheat.
The protein bars from Biotest are great, but not while on a cutting diet for a person of your level. Dave Tate can get away with it, you cannot. During my cutting diet last year I ate eggs/beef/cheese/avocado/veggies almost exclusively. It was very easy to get the amount of protein I needed on this diet, almost too easy.
Re-evaluate what you are doing. Is it very different than what you were doing 3 months ago? 6 months ago? If you have been doing the same thing for a while, change it up big time. I’m not saying drop the squats or deadlifts, but you may need to start using new exercises, new rep schemes, new rest periods, new machines…the works, to start getting new results.
Great advice from everybody…
It sounds like I just need to stir things up a bit (or a lot!). Big epiphany about the protein bars. I wouldn’t have expected these to be considered such a big deal, and it makes me realize that the little details can really make a huge difference!
So, protein bars are nixed and I’m going to seriously reevaluate my diet and training based on the info you’re all providing.
Since reducing my body fat percentage is my primary goal right now, is it silly for me to even think about trying to add some muscle right now? Wouldn’t it be great to be able to drop fat and add muscle at the same time? (I know some people can do that…) Wouldn’t that be a great way to get to a lower BF%?
I guess that’s what I was hoping the Carbolin 19 would help me do… Like obmas, I just took Biotest up on its 3-for-the-price-of-2 option and now have three fresh bottles of Carbolin 19 in my cupboard… Should I even bother at this point??
Save the Carbolin 19 for your next “mass cycle” if you want to call it that.
Right now, just focus on increasing your activity. You might even want to stop dieting for 2 weeks to reset your body… counter intuitive but the payoff is a newly recharged metabolism. CT recommends you do not go more than 16 weeks of dieting without a break.
The Add-muscle-while-losing-bodyfat thing is controversial, but it does happen. The only way it is going to happen is to eat a ton of good clean food and train your ass off. Harder than you are training right now, much harder. Push for more reps, more sets, more weight and more food.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Save the Carbolin 19 for your next “mass cycle” if you want to call it that.
Right now, just focus on increasing your activity. You might even want to stop dieting for 2 weeks to reset your body… counter intuitive but the payoff is a newly recharged metabolism. CT recommends you do not go more than 16 weeks of dieting without a break.
The Add-muscle-while-losing-bodyfat thing is controversial, but it does happen. The only way it is going to happen is to eat a ton of good clean food and train your ass off. Harder than you are training right now, much harder. Push for more reps, more sets, more weight and more food.[/quote]
I hear you, loud and clear… The protein bars are gone, and I’m stepping up my training: more reps, more sets and more weight. As you can imagine, the “more food” part feels counterintuitive to me, but I do understand that the quality/type of food is the key… And you guys are the experts…
Speaking of which, what’s an “OP”? (One of the other posters referred to me as that.) The fact that I don’t know probably proves that I am one, whatever it is… LOL
[quote]speakman wrote:
Speaking of which, what’s an “OP”?
[/quote]
OP = Original Post(er), as in, the person who started the thread.
Also, I think they are kind of gimmick-ey, but you may want to look into the “fat loss” programs on here to really switch things up.
A couple that come to mind:
Complexes for fat loss
Real Fast Fat Loss
War Room Strategies for destroying fat
Ive gone through this post and i cant seem to understand how much your working. Its been mentioned 5 hours minimium. That is true. But you havnt told us how much you are working. How long are you weights sessions? and how many? Energy system work? of what type? how long? how many sessions? Sets? reps? number of excercises? What selections? freeweights? Progression.
Same for your diet. I see some references to what your doing, but few details. I think this is going to be a problem for examining your results.
As for your scales, as for not being accurate that is true. As for being “consistently wrong” enough to chart change… i dont think so.
[quote]Beatnik wrote:
Ive gone through this post and i cant seem to understand how much your working. Its been mentioned 5 hours minimium. That is true. But you havnt told us how much you are working. How long are you weights sessions? and how many? Energy system work? of what type? how long? how many sessions? Sets? reps? number of excercises? What selections? freeweights? Progression.
Same for your diet. I see some references to what your doing, but few details. I think this is going to be a problem for examining your results.
As for your scales, as for not being accurate that is true. As for being “consistently wrong” enough to chart change… i dont think so.[/quote]
I think everyone’s looking for the details…
Training:
Monday: Bench Press, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Incline Bench, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Decline Bench, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Seated Row, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Lat Pull, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Leg Curl, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Leg Extension, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Calf Raise, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Wednesday: Military Press, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Bicep Curl, 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Tricep (cable down), 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Forearm Curl (under), 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Forearm Curl (over), 5 sets, 5 to 8 reps/set
Friday: Same as Monday
Then the following week, the Wednesday routine occurs on Monday and Friday, and the Monday routine goes to Wednesday. Make sense? So I simply alternate the upper body routine each workout. Lower body is always Monday and Friday.
Everything is done with free weights to the extent possible, and I use very heavy weights (for me; example, 225 on bench press). I make sure the weight is heavy enough that I really have to work hard on the last rep, and often can only squeeze out four. I believe my form and style is good, but always working to improve.
I begin each weightlifting session with five fairly intense minutes on the treadmill (just for warmup), and then end with 10 minutes of intense treadmill. (“Intense”: 6 to 7 mph, random hills)
I was also running 3 to 4 miles at least a couple of days a week, but stopped this recently when I read in a T-Nation article that that simply eats up one’s muscle (which is sparse enough on me!). However, based on recommendation of other posters, I’m working this back in. One day/week so far…
I think that’s it for my training. I also make sure to get a good night’s sleep every night (plenty of rest).
As for nutrition, right now I’m working to implement a lot of what the group is recommending: A lot of whole, natural foods spread out nicely over the day. Lots of protein, but no protein bars (too much sugar). I’ll offer more details if you like… And, as always, thanks to the group for all the excellent help!
[quote]toddthebod wrote:
speakman wrote:
Speaking of which, what’s an “OP”?
OP = Original Post(er), as in, the person who started the thread.[/quote]
That’s cool! I’m fairly new here and thought the term might be kind of tongue-in-cheek derogatory. Guess the new kid is always a little paranoid… 
Any comments on my training routine? (message before the last one) Can’t handle all this suspense…
[quote]speakman wrote:
Any comments on my training routine? (message before the last one) Can’t handle all this suspense…[/quote]
It’s bad.
There are already probably hundreds of training routines on this site. Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when there are way better versions easily available?
Honestly, that monday session looks insane. You actually may be OVER doing it… Thats 40 sets in one workout. While I’m not a beat by any stretch, I’ve done as little as 5 sets per workout and as many as 15 or so, but I’ve never done 20,30, or even 40 as you are doing.
To me this also says that you are not training with the right level of intensity. If you can do 40 sets, something is wrong. I’m absolutely fried after set 10-12 in my workouts, sometimes even lower than that. The way I workout 40 sets is just not possible.
Also, your workout looks like its based around isolation movements almost exclusively… this is not good from a fatloss standpoint.
Look up the articles I mentioned earlier and get to them, you will be surprised how hard the complexes and stuff are… and at how short the workouts are.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Also, your workout looks like its based around isolation movements almost exclusively… this is not good from a fatloss standpoint.
Look up the articles I mentioned earlier and get to them, you will be surprised how hard the complexes and stuff are… and at how short the workouts are.[/quote]
Interesting! I really thought I was right on target with my routine. I’ve already read through the first article and will get to the others today. Hard to imagine I might be at the gym for less time, but I can live with that! (And greatly looking forward to higher intensity…)
I also hear everyone loud and clear regarding supplements: Why bother until I get my nutrition / training correct? However, aren’t there still some “basics” that I should continue with? My current (very recently modified) list (all Biotest):
BCAA’s (6 before, 6 during, 6 after workout)
Spike (1 can before workout)
Surge (2 scoops before workout, 2 scoops after)
Creatine (1 little scoop [5g] after workout)
Low-Carb Metabolic Grow (non workout protein supplementation)
Notice no mention of Carbolin 19… maybe it’s time to start a new thread!