[quote]
BTW, TriGWU, a scale is probably the WORST way of determing body-comp fluctuations. This topic may warrant it’s own thread…[/quote]
Agreed that its probably the worst.
Agreed not to hijack this thread ;-).
This thread is blowing up. Keep the reports coming.
I would caution people with the BF% numbers they are getting from a variety of sources. Unless you are getting it done in a lab (and probably even then it would be much better if done for a funded study) then you need to exercise caution with your readings. Also to let everyone know I used DEXA to interpret BF% in the study.
The strength increases are something that should be easy to see via a logbook of some kind. Other things are more subjective. The best thing you could do would be to take some pictures or a video when you start and do this again at 6-weeks and then once more at 12-weeks. Unless you are competing in a BF% competition then why do you care what BF% you currently have? I would assume most are doing it for appearance or performance (as in strength increases) so why not judge them both yourself in a fairly accurate manner such as this?
Give that a shot, and be sure to have someone else look at the “after” pics with you. Then we won’t need to debate for pages about what is going on. Not saying it isn’t entertaining, but I don’t know what good it is really doing?
Keep working hard guys! Don’t slack off because Carbolin 19 gives you an edge.
[quote]100meters wrote:
Exactly. These changes I’m not really seeing, but nonetheless changes are happening. Had I not already been keeping a spreadsheet of stats, I’d might be thinking differently, but when you see your caliper pinches getting steadily smaller, and your not dieting, or adding cardio and you are adding calories, then you start thinking “oh yeah the Carbolin 19!”[/quote]
100,
I wish I had been keeping a sheet like yours. All my evidence is anecdotal and based upon how things feel. I unfortunately have not become very good and measuring my BMI with the ppinch test and I have heard from this web site that BMI is not the way to go anyway. Could you fill me in on how you do your measuring?
Also, I WILL say that something interesting is happeneing. Though I cannot SEE the changes in the mirror, I am noticing it in my clothing. They are fitting better. Also, This is happening all while staying in the 216-219 lb. range. The obvious conclusion is that the fat is being replaced my muscle. I just wish I had a spreadsheet like yours to prove it to myself.
JF
Maybe we should ask Mr. Shugart what his results are so far with Carbolin 19 as he has had approx. a month head start on all of us. this would put him in the 8-10 week range and he should theoretically be seeing more visual results than the rest of us. So Mr. Shugart, how about some info.
I?m here to report or basically to confirm already mentioned here effects of taking Carbolin 19 at the full recommended dosage. What I have noticed is an increase in appetite. I?m pretty sure this is an affect of Carbolin 19, because I have not changed my diet since I started taking it, which is a bulking diet and I was eating a decent amount of calories around 4000 I?m 192 lbs right now and I started taking Carbolin 19 on 4/21/05.
Another thing I have notices is that in the evening I start sweating and just feel like my body is heating up. Almost every morning I wake up in sweat, but during the day I don?t experience the same affect.
I’m just about to finish my first bottle of Carbolin 19, and have noticed a distinct thickening of my upper body, and I’ve gained about five pounds alltogether. I havn’t gotten any stronger as of yet, but in about an hour I’ll be lifting and if any comeback PR’s are hit I’ll post them. So far I’ll say I’m pleased and will continue to use.
I’m just starting my third bottle, 4 pills a day.
I feel bigger and tighter all the time.
My appetite has actually gone down–it was hard enough to cram down the 3600 to 4000 calories Berardi said I should eat before.
Of course, I’ve entered a new fun filled phase of the most exquisite personal stress I’ve felt for a long time, so that might have some bearing. I keep taking the stuff to keep the level constant in my system.
I have noticed increased vascularity in my arms and stuff though.
[quote]Jesus_Freak wrote:
100meters wrote:
Exactly. These changes I’m not really seeing, but nonetheless changes are happening. Had I not already been keeping a spreadsheet of stats, I’d might be thinking differently, but when you see your caliper pinches getting steadily smaller, and your not dieting, or adding cardio and you are adding calories, then you start thinking “oh yeah the Carbolin 19!”
100,
I wish I had been keeping a sheet like yours. All my evidence is anecdotal and based upon how things feel. I unfortunately have not become very good and measuring my BMI with the ppinch test and I have heard from this web site that BMI is not the way to go anyway. Could you fill me in on how you do your measuring?
Also, I WILL say that something interesting is happeneing. Though I cannot SEE the changes in the mirror, I am noticing it in my clothing. They are fitting better. Also, This is happening all while staying in the 216-219 lb. range. The obvious conclusion is that the fat is being replaced my muscle. I just wish I had a spreadsheet like yours to prove it to myself.
JF[/quote]
Jesus,
I just have some basic calipers and measusre in 3 places (I use my wife’s ace training book for guidelines, but you can find it easily via google.)This is the Jackson-Pollock 3 site method. There’s a belly pinch, chest pinch, and thigh pinch and a forumla that gives you an est. of your BF%. I measure once a week at the same time of day and record the results of the pinches, and the bf% result. This way I can see more clearly changes in body composition. Since I’ve started the carbolin all these pinches have decreased.By the way to be more “honest” I’ll average like 3 readings for each weekly result. I also do measurements of arm, chest, thigh via myotape–but any tape measure will do. If you log all these things, you can get some very useful insight into what’s working and what’s not. I’m using it to optimize my carb/protein/fat ratio to see what works best for me, but hell it’ll tell you everything.
Here’s an idea… Why don’t those who claim something post before and after pics. Let’s us be the judge…
OD
Original_Demon,
Is that you in the Avatar? and in the previous Avatar?
[quote]StrongMan wrote:
Original_Demon,
Is that you in the Avatar? and in the previous Avatar?[/quote]
Same guy… not so fat…
Okay, Day 36 and I can now “visually” discern that I’m leaner. I’m down 2lbs, from 201 to 198. Other notable changes:
-moderate increase in strength across the board
-GREAT pumps
-Penis size has increased 2 inches (kidding)
No increase in measurements (waist is down 1/2 inch)…Arms are actually a bit smaller (didn’t think I had much fat there, but apparently I was wrong), which is a little disconcerting. At this point, based on scales, mirror and tape, fat loss seems to be more significant then lean mass gains (this is just subjective).
Anywho, that’s what I have to report thus far.
G
Sorry about the typo above…should have read a “3” lb loss.
G
Bump. Any new updates?
Okay, I just recorded my 6wk measurements and unfortunately, it’s not as positive as I would have hoped. Essentially, according to my measurement techniques, I’m at baseline. Diet has been clean (e.g. turkey, fish, brown rice, oat meal, etc. NO ALCOHOL).
Starting weight: 201
current weight: 201 (bumped calories about 400 over maintentenance in an effort to increase lean mass progress, but ended up increasing waist size. Could be fluid fluctuations, as opposed to fat…I hope).
Waist: Same
Arms, Legs: Same
Strength: Marked increase across the board.
Oh well, wish I had something better to report…6 weeks left.
[quote]Gnostic wrote:
Okay, I just recorded my 6wk measurements and unfortunately, it’s not as positive as I would have hoped. Essentially, according to my measurement techniques, I’m at baseline. Diet has been clean (e.g. turkey, fish, brown rice, oat meal, etc. NO ALCOHOL).
Starting weight: 201
current weight: 201 (bumped calories about 400 over maintentenance in an effort to increase lean mass progress, but ended up increasing waist size. Could be fluid fluctuations, as opposed to fat…I hope).
Waist: Same
Arms, Legs: Same
Strength: Marked increase across the board.
Oh well, wish I had something better to report…6 weeks left.
[/quote]
Why are you not recording body composition?
From everything Cy has said, this is required to get a true picture of your gains.
If you’re training to increase hypertrophy and seeing strength gains it’s likely that you’re building lean mass.
BTW, the 400 cals above maint. was only over the last week (end of wk 5)… Also, have been taking 60mg/day throughout.
[quote]BAJ wrote:
This was touched on in the other thread. If you want to maximize natural test it would be better to space it between 6-8 hours apart. This is assuming you are taking your first dose upon waking which is recommended. [/quote]
BAJ,
Quick Question about this. On the Carbolin 19 thread I was asking Cy about ways of experimenting with Spike and Carbolin 19. Spike has really helped me with morning motiviation, and this is important since I workout in the morning. Cy seemd to suggest at one point that taking Carbolin 19 in the afternoon and even would not decrease its effectiveness very much, as long as the doses were taken 6 hours apart. Are you suggesting here that this may not be true?
Thanks!
JF
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
Gnostic wrote:
Okay, I just recorded my 6wk measurements and unfortunately, it’s not as positive as I would have hoped. Essentially, according to my measurement techniques, I’m at baseline. Diet has been clean (e.g. turkey, fish, brown rice, oat meal, etc. NO ALCOHOL).
Starting weight: 201
current weight: 201 (bumped calories about 400 over maintentenance in an effort to increase lean mass progress,
but ended up increasing waist size. Could be fluid fluctuations, as opposed to fat…I hope).
Waist: Same
Arms, Legs: Same
Strength: Marked increase across the board.
Oh well, wish I had something better to report…6 weeks left.
Why are you not recording body composition?
From everything Cy has said, this is required to get a true picture of your gains.
If you’re training to increase hypertrophy and seeing strength gains it’s likely that you’re building lean mass.
[/quote]
Look, I’ve been at this long enough to recognize even slight changes in my body. I know where I’m holding fat, and those areas haven’t been reduced appreciably, to this point. To that end, since my scale weight hasn’t changed, it’s stands to reason that I’m NOT gaining any significant amounts of lean mass. Also,I disagree with the assertion that strength increase equates to lean BM increases.
In my opionion, I shouldn’t have to scientifically measure my body comp to the nth degree, in order to discern changes (after 12 weeks). At that point, if it can’t be detected by the eyes and tape measure, then cost would certainly exceed benefits.
Additionally, I don’t see anyone else posting updates. I’m at least providing some anecdotal feedback, so if it’s not as scientific as you would like, perhaps you should take the time and effort to provide your own “Body-comp” changes.
[quote]Gnostic wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
Gnostic wrote:
Okay, I just recorded my 6wk measurements and unfortunately, it’s not as positive as I would have hoped. Essentially, according to my measurement techniques, I’m at baseline. Diet has been clean (e.g. turkey, fish, brown rice, oat meal, etc. NO ALCOHOL).
Starting weight: 201
current weight: 201 (bumped calories about 400 over maintentenance in an effort to increase lean mass progress,
but ended up increasing waist size. Could be fluid fluctuations, as opposed to fat…I hope).
Waist: Same
Arms, Legs: Same
Strength: Marked increase across the board.
Oh well, wish I had something better to report…6 weeks left.
Why are you not recording body composition?
From everything Cy has said, this is required to get a true picture of your gains.
If you’re training to increase hypertrophy and seeing strength gains it’s likely that you’re building lean mass.
Look, I’ve been at this long enough to recognize even slight changes in my body. I know where I’m holding fat, and those areas haven’t been reduced appreciably, to this point. To that end, since my scale weight hasn’t changed, it’s stands to reason that I’m NOT gaining any significant amounts of lean mass. Also,I disagree with the assertion that strength increase equates to lean BM increases.
In my opionion, I shouldn’t have to scientifically measure my body comp to the nth degree, in order to discern changes (after 12 weeks). At that point, if it can’t be detected by the eyes and tape measure, then cost would certainly exceed benefits.
Additionally, I don’t see anyone else posting updates. I’m at least providing some anecdotal feedback, so if it’s not as scientific as you would like, perhaps you should take the time and effort to provide your own “Body-comp” changes.[/quote]
No need to get testy. After all, only you can judge what’s cost effective for you.
However, coming from a research-based background, your feedback is of limited use without actual objective measures of lean body mass and fat mass. I’ve seen plenty of subjects who claim not to have experienced changes in lean body mass when in fact rather significant alterations had occured.
I do appreciate your feedback nonetheless.