I also genuinely wonder just how many humans on earth have it as their goal to be even bigger than Brock Lesnar such that they NEED that extra boost…
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This whole thread is a series of weird hypotheticals. “These outliers could have really been special if they’d done it this way!”
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That, and only using good examples.
No one points at anybody and says “Look at him! He ate tons of carbs and he sucks!”.
There are millions of hims, too. Most people dont have to point very far to be right about that.
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What do you expect when the know-it-all posts multiple times. Is it time for us to bow yet?
No, not at this time!
Biochemistry is a complex subject, perhaps better discussions would occur elsewhere without being overly difficult for some to understand
I think this process is “turned on” whenever you workout. Training burns through your reserves and puts your muscles in a catabolic state. You don’t need to be starving, you just need to burn through your limited amount of stored glucose. Having less stored glycogen pre workout or lifting way excessive during your workout can make you more catabolic.
25 grams of carbs (and maybe some protein) are enough to help you swing into anabolic/recovery mode.
THis is why low carb dudes eat carbs around there workouts or during workouts.
I read all about this stuff in this book, but it was a while ago.
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I think this process is “turned on” whenever you workout. Training burns through your reserves and puts your muscles in a catabolic state.
Not exactly, we never even get close to using up ‘our reserves’ in a weight workout, it takes one of those 20 mile marathons to deplete all our glycogen. After a weight workout, even a higher volume one, we still have at least 50% of our muscles glylcogen storage. Training stimulates protein synthesis and degradation, we don’t go ‘catabolic’. If we have been fasting and keep fasting after, it will just even out (synthesis and degradation will be about the same, no gain, no loss. But if we are fed before or within a few hours after (protein), synthesis will exceed degradation (anabolic)
You don’t need to be starving, you just need to burn through your limited amount of stored glucose. Having less stored glycogen pre workout or lifting way excessive during your workout can make you more catabolic.
Gycogen is right, we don’t store glucose. And we have plenty of stored glycogen in our muscles and liver to easily make it through a workout.
THis is why low carb dudes eat carbs around there workouts or during workouts.
Some do, many don’t. It’s not needed at all for weight training.
How do you reckon stored muscle glycogen is used by muscles as fuel? What hormones need to be released into the tissues to facilitate that process and are those hormones anabolic or catabolic?
I’ll also note that a lot of people that go low carb go very high protein and protein can be converted into carbohydrates via de novo gluconeogenesis and those carbohydrates enter the bloodstream to be used as fuel or converted into fat if blood sugar levels rise high enough to trigger an insulin response (which might also be triggered by the leucine content in the protein sources)
No hormones are needed, FT fibers ‘run on’ glycogen just as ST fibers run on stored lipids, it’s stored in each cell/fiber, ready to use as needed.
Some go very high protein and yes extra protein can be converted to glucose, and will be to keep glycogen storage up to a certain level. Not as high as with a carb diet, but plenty high enough for weight training and daily activity.
Insulin is always being released, it just varies based on the glucose level in the blood. Even when your sleeping and haven’t eating for hours, some insulin is being released.
Many amino acids ‘increase’ insulin levels, arginine is another one that stimulates a higher insulin release. In general, protein increases insulin at the right amount to ‘absorb’ that said protein (amino acids)
This is a bold statement. If what you are saying is true - “enough carbs for weight training and daily activities”, through protein only - this would mean we don’t need carbs at all? Come to think of Jon Andersen again.
Do you have any sources to back this up?
My preclinical cellular biology learnings are 20 years back, and I seem to recall the alanine cycle, but what you are suggesting is rather thought provoking.
If it’s sounds too good to be true, it mostly is a hoax. On the other hand, if you can explain the complicated in an easy accessible way, it could mean a deeper understanding. Any sources?
I mean, we don’t actually need carbs, but most of us feel much better having some semblance of carbs in the diet. Some people can get away without eating carbs at all though - whilst proteins and fats are required, carbs aren’t.
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If you mean, most of us feel much better physically eating carbs, then what you are saying is that we need them. If you don’t feel as good as you could, then you are less healthy correct? Something is wrong…So if eating carbs makes you feel better then it is good for your health and therefore necessary.
most of the golden era guys were low carb.
There are lots of things that make me feel better physically and mentally that aren’t healthy so I find your argument to be lacking.
See how
Devolves if you replace eating carbs with “abusing stimulants” and observe how the arrow of implication falters.
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I’m not saying this at all - as indicated by literally my entire post.
Was going to respond along the lines of:
but @Voxel beat me to it. Seemingly a recurring trend =)
Yes, carbs were overly vilified in most - if not all - eras of bodybuilding, and it is true they are one of the most anabolic substances. But when you have someone who’s actual profession is making their body look as good as humanly possible, and evidently was the best in the world at doing so 3x over (referencing Zane), I think it can be reasonably assumed he has experimented with carbs and found he responds better without them.
Suprising as it may be, people are actually different and, by extension, respond differently to various inputs. Zane may have had some significant insulin insensitivity issues, to which going low (or no) carb can most certainly help alleviate. In fact, many people have made great progress on Keto diets - but it is known to be statistically inferior in terms of muscle development when compared to other diets. This being said, there are always outliers along the bell-curve.
I also think you are conflating “feeling good” with “making good progress”. Heavy AAS doses don’t make anyone feel good, yet it is impossible to stand on the Olympia stage without doing so. Keto, for many, makes people feel poorly over enough time. Again, some outliers may feel far better living this lifestyle; likewise some will feel far worse attempting to do so.
I don’t think that anyone competing in the Olympia is doing so for their health or “feeling better”.
P.S. NOT a Keto diet fan.
EDIT: I never imagined this thread would span 2 weeks, yet here we are.
EDIT 2: (to prove a point)
See what I did there?
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You ever take a formal logic class in University?
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alright, calm down sticky hands (joking)
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Well I was assuming by making you feel good physically, that it meant feeling healthier, etc. NOT in the sense that something like say oxycodone makes you feel better.
I feel good physically after having a few beers. Beer is a very carb rich beverage so it must be great for muscle building. As a bit of a bro-scientist myself, I’ve concluded that maintaining a solid buzz is the roadmap to unlimited gains.
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