So if we don’t look up to the guys with great results because they got there with genetics and drugs, are we supposed to look up to the guys with bad results?
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I am not worshipping a book from 35 years ago. I am quoting information from that book, information that the author still believes to be true.
Yeah sure, it’s massive until you compare it to someone else from his era. Then it looks rather small.
Dr. Darden wrote in one of his books that in the late 70’s, Nautilus was visited by the reigning Mr. Olympia who was claiming to have 19" arms. Arthur did not want to call him out directly but measured Casey Viator’s massive arm at 19" right in front of this current Mr. Olympia, who got red in his face from embarassment. Darden writes that Arthur estimated this man’s arm to be 16 3/4" by looking at it (Arthur was skilled at doing this). It had to be either Franco Columbu (1976 Mr Olympia) or Frank Zane.
Do you mind if I ask, what percentage of carbs were you eating before when you weren’t making any gains? What did you change in your training? What did your new diet consist of? And what kind of gains in terms of muscular size and strength when you changed your diet and training?
You’ve nailed it right there. Offering Zane retrospective advice on his diet is akin to suggesting to Usain Bolt he might have been even faster if only he would have taken 2 shakes a day instead of 1. 
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You can throw references in someone’s face until the cows come home, but at the end of the day - Zane won the O 3x over and had an amazing physique. I imagine he probably experimented with carbs and found them to not work for his genetics, considering different people respond to different nutrition.
You unilaterally deciding that “he could’ve done better if…” is an incredibly arrogant stance. You can prove me wrong by posting a picture of your current physique though
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Come on, man. Someone told a story demonstrating the product he was selling was better? No way!
I’m not saying this to be disrespectful to Mr. Jones, Dr. Darden, HIT, you, or any of this. Perhaps every picture and judge was wrong about Zane, and maybe Viator really was better, but that example is not very strong… especially after you just made a statement that individual results may come down to genetics and drugs anyway.
All that said, I realize I wandered into “your house”, (this forum) so to speak, and just started arguing with you. You’re under no obligation to be receptive to my thoughts; it’s not like you asked for them, and I get that.
I think Zane has been pretty forthright about his arms being about 17”. But the judges don’t go on stage and measure each body part and check their Bodyfat percentage with calipers, it’s all about the complete look they bring to the stage.
Also @tzabcan I’m right there with you brother. Changing the diet and training up completely when I hit a plateau is one of the most valuable lessons I’ve learned. I don’t get married to one single program. Even Dr Darden recommends mixing things up and making adjustments in your routine to prevent stagnation.
Thank you. This is the only answer I was looking for.
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I wasnt there when these farts were ripped and I sure as hell aint trying to sniff them 40 years later.
I just find these second, third, to infinitty and beyond guess threads hilarious. Very similar to the full body/splits training threads.
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Aw man, just as I try to slink away this…THIS brings me back in as this thread keeps delivering the gold.
And since we’re second guessing, how do we know his face wasn’t red with anger?
Sounds like this guy, who ever he was, walked cold into an ambush.
Who does that to a “guest” unless you’re trying to embarrass them?
“Hi! Glad you could make it. Im going to make it a point to make you seem inferior right off the bat.”.
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Not to mention the difference in arm circumference in the off-season versus stage ready. I’m a tiny ass natty, but even my arms shrank from over 17" at my heaviest to just under 16" by the time I stepped on stage.
Yeah, there is certainly that.
I can think of a solid hand full of guys frim this site that looked really awesome, like won a pro card awesome, in contest condition. Contest condition being like 20 or so lbs. less than their off season walking around weight.
Well Dr. Darden was there so only he could answer for sure. But I think it’s pretty easy to tell the difference when someone is angry andr when someone is embarassed.
Still gives credence to the notion that Jones invites a guy to his gym or compound then takes measures to intentionally embarrass him.
No wonder his sponsored athletes who got big using other methods and drugs couldnt stand him and eventually split, no matter how much he paid them.
Just a very sad, strange man.
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Oh boy, you just criticized Jones in the Darden forum 
But I’m not criticizing Darden in the Darden forum.
He does have a legitimate body of good work and has contributed to many peoples health & fitness.
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IDK man, he probably could have put on another 15-20lbs if he just ate some carbs.
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