Can't Get Bigger!?

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No one was telling you to eat at Mc Donalds. I cook most of my own food. But a meal for me is a freaking pound of steak. That’s damn near 1,000cals alone for that one meal.
[/quote]

I’ve been reading these boards for two years or so. Honest to God, I have no idea how people have consistently and incessantly understood what you are saying to mean that they should be going to McDonalds.

And for the record, the only person who ever advocated McD’s is Waylanderxx, whom I’m pretty sure is one of the biggest people to post on these boards. I believe he ate like two big macs (or equivalent) after all his workouts at one point, lol.

This is only tangentially related to the OP’s post, but I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the whole “eat 300 cals above maintenance for ‘teh lean gainzzz’” school of thought? Honestly, I feel like I’ve wasted a good amount of time in the past trying to hit that “sweet spot” and ultimately undershooting. [/quote]

ifeel like the bulk up with things like fast food can work when you are at the Op’s age, but you have to be willing to get soft. if you wan to be a competitive bodybuilder you have to realize that ALL OF THAT fat has to come off at some point—which is much eaiser said than done-keep in mind guys like meadows find “that sweet spot” with his clients and most people on this forum would agree that his methods work very well.

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No one was telling you to eat at Mc Donalds. I cook most of my own food. But a meal for me is a freaking pound of steak. That’s damn near 1,000cals alone for that one meal.
[/quote]

I’ve been reading these boards for two years or so. Honest to God, I have no idea how people have consistently and incessantly understood what you are saying to mean that they should be going to McDonalds.

And for the record, the only person who ever advocated McD’s is Waylanderxx, whom I’m pretty sure is one of the biggest people to post on these boards. I believe he ate like two big macs (or equivalent) after all his workouts at one point, lol.

[/quote] While that may be true, he certainly wasn’t advocating that anyone else do that…

[quote]

This is only tangentially related to the OP’s post, but I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the whole “eat 300 cals above maintenance for ‘teh lean gainzzz’” school of thought? Honestly, I feel like I’ve wasted a good amount of time in the past trying to hit that “sweet spot” and ultimately undershooting. [/quote]

Seems that MOST natural lifters tend to follow the lean gains approach, after they have already built a good amount of mass, and really have learned a lot about their bodies and how they respond. I think beginners with the ability to put on a ton of muscle would more often than not limit themselves by trying too hard to avoid fat gain. However, very developed natural individuals are not going to be putting on 20-30 pounds of muscle in a year, and eating far above maintenance calories will lead to much more fat gain than anything else. Also, as you said, the “lean gains approach” is a lot more complicated, it is tough to find that “sweet spot” of muscle gain without much fat gain. Gaining weight is simple, losing weight is simple (notice I didn’t say “easy” for either of these) slowly adding muscle without fat, quite a bit more complicated.

OP - as others have said, it’s not your workout, but your diet.

When I cut fat for summer, I drop to something very close to your diet and that’s around weeks 10-12 of my plan when I go on extreme calorie restrictions.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you eat just a bit more than my 10 year old daughter. She usually has a half dozen egg whites with 2-3 yokes with a huge bowl of celery and a protein shake mixed with 2 cups of fruit for breakfast. She alternates the eggs with chicken/turkey breasts every other day. Exception is the weekend where she’ll eat a half dozen large pancakes, or I’ll do up a huge scrambled eggs, bacon, hashbrowns and toast breakfast with a protein shake to wash it all down with. I won’t tell you about my 5 year old and his food consumption, as that’ll get all the 130lb’ers on this site crying in their beds…

I see nothing wrong with your workout, as I’ve said for years now anyone can gain on any program, providing they’re getting the proper nutrition and rest.

If your concerned about gaining fat, then your gains are going to be very slow as your not consuming calorie dense foods. For the ‘lean’ approach, I’d look to eating a lot more lean cuts of red meat, chicken and turkey and then supplement with the whey shakes for additional calories that your body needs. Just know your gains will be very slow…

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]dopes1 wrote:
Okay ive read everyones advice and i’ll start by answering everything first, the main reason im not eating fucking macdonalds n all that high calorie shit is because i am clearly not wanting to put on too much fat, otherwise i would just eat in excess of 6000 every day and just put on weight, i want to add lean mass not just mass.
.[/quote]
No one was telling you to eat at Mc Donalds.[/quote]

I’ll tell him to eat at McDonalds. Time to get dirty with that diet son.

What is you’re goal?

8-20 reps on squat…? Lol why the hell are all you’re reps so far apart. Be in the right mind set and know what youre doing. Stick to something close, and 5 sets? You either dont do heavy weight on leg day or you have gear in you’re protein shake. You’re workouts are very isolated and maybe try adding heavier compound lifts. If you do cardio 3x times a week, mcdonalds won’t be a problem for youre sissy girl ass.

Plus for calves, high rep on seated and low rep heavy weight for donkey and/or standing calve raise. If youre trying to add mass do LESS CARDIO THEN “calories in vs calories” out, do the math. So its either do the cardio and eat like a russian strongman, or cut cardio out almost completely. Add olmypic lifts for cardio because thats the closest thing you’ll get to a cardio in-shape workout. you would think someone whos been training all this time would do some research…#chewbubblegum

[quote]dopes1 wrote:
Okay ive read everyones advice and i’ll start by answering everything first, the main reason im not eating fucking macdonalds n all that high calorie shit is because i am clearly not wanting to put on too much fat, otherwise i would just eat in excess of 6000 every day and just put on weight, i want to add lean mass not just mass.

Also here’s my routine, although i change it almost week to week so its never exact, and about every 4-8 weeks i change the rep ranges, rest time, set number, exercise number etc: (not including warm up)

Day 1: Chest
Flat benchpress 4 sets 8-12 reps
Incline dumbbell 3 sets 8-12 reps
Decline smith 3 sets 8-12 reps (or dips)
Cable flyes 3 sets 8-12 reps
Hammer Strength Press 3 sets 8-12 reps

Day 2: Back
Weighted Pull-ups 4 sets 8-12 reps
Deadlifts 4 sets 6-15 reps
Bent over row 3 sets 8-12 reps
Underhand lat pulldown 3 sets 8-12 reps
Seated cable row 3 sets 8-12 reps
One Arm dumbbell row 2 sets 8-12 reps
Lat pullover 2 sets 8-12 reps

Day 3: Legs/calves
Squats 5 sets 8-20 reps
Leg Press 3 sets 8-30 reps
Leg Extension/Lunges 3 sets 8-30 reps
Lying Leg curl 3 sets 10-15 reps
Stiff leg deadlift 10-15 reps
Standing Calf raises 3 sets 20 reps
Donkey calf raises 3 sets 20 reps
Seated calf raises 3 sets 20 reps

Day 4: Shoulders
Dumbbell Press/Barbell Press 4 sets 8-12 reps
Lateral Raises 3 sets 10-15 reps
Rear delt flyes 3 sets 10-15 reps superset with facepulls same reps/sets
Upright row 3 sets 10-15 reps
Machine Press 3 sets 10-15 reps
Shrugs 3 sets 10-15 reps

Day 5: arms, all supersets
Barbell curl/rope pushdown 3 sets 10-15 reps
Hammer curl/skullcrusher/cg bench 3 sets 10-15 reps
Preacher curl/overhead dumbbell extension 3 sets 10-15 reps
Incline dumbbell curl/one arm pushdowns 3 sets 10-15 reps

usually i’ll have a rest day in between those or after all 5 days, and i do cardio about 3 times a week, switching between HIIT and LISS. i also train abs on the days i do cardio.

But yeah i shouldve been more clear about the fact that i want to be relatively lean still, not puffy looking, i want to put on lean mass whilst limiting fat gain, so im not going to add bulk fats to my diet just to make up calories, if i make up calories it’ll be by adding more oats/rice/sweet potato, and some natty peanut butter as snacks inbetween meals, might also add some nuts and fruit in between meals.

Is there any more advice? I do like the idea of the deload week i havnt done that in a while so maybe i should. But yeah basically i wont go any higher than 4000 calories because then i’ll just gain fat reallyy quickly, ive tried it before and i know my body pretty well enough by now to realise when im gonna just gain fat. Also thanks to everyone for the advice, more would be very appreciated, cheers.[/quote]

8-20 reps on squat…? Lol why the hell are all you’re reps so far apart. Be in the right mind set and know what youre doing. Stick to something close, and 5 sets? You either dont do heavy weight on leg day or you have gear in you’re protein shake. You’re workouts are very isolated and maybe try adding heavier compound lifts. If you do cardio 3x times a week, mcdonalds won’t be a problem for youre sissy girl ass.

Plus for calves, high rep on seated and low rep heavy weight for donkey and/or standing calve raise. If youre trying to add mass do LESS CARDIO THEN “calories in vs calories” out, do the math. So its either do the cardio and eat like a russian strongman, or cut cardio out almost completely. Add olmypic lifts for cardio because thats the closest thing you’ll get to a cardio in-shape workout. Not having that 6 pack for a month or two from the junky shit you indulge will make up for the beastly gains you’ll get from the dieting advie these guys are giving you. it’s golden, these gentlmen know what is, so jot it all down or dont, idgaf. you would think someone whos been training all this time would do some research…#chewbubblegum

[quote]dopes1 wrote:
Also here’s my routine, although i change it almost week to week so its never exact.
[/quote]

Maybe don’t change your routine up every week. A little consistency goes a long way.

OP, I understand the not wanting to get fat thing. It’s completely understandable but you 100% have not maxed out and can still gain size while staying leaner as a natty. Just listen to the advice that some of the posters here have given. If you’ve stalled out and been at 3K calories for a while now then it’s pretty obvious that you need more calories.

Just adjust your macros accordingly. Add 300 calories worth of EVOO/VCO/Peanutbutter to one of your shakes every day. Try that out and if you haven’t gained any good weight after a few weeks then bump it up to 500 extra cals a day and asses after a few weeks. (And keep on repeating this)

It’s not that difficult to remedy your situation.

Good luck.

He got the 6000 calorie number from me, because he was contemplating doing a cycle of fuckong dbol…and then asked about clen. I told him it was a stupid fucking idea and he had no excuse to contemplate that if he hadn’t tried pounding down 6000 calories a day to grow, because he wasn’t trying anywhere near hard enough.

And am I the only one here who looks at that routine as asinine?? He’s doing 9 EXERCISES ON LEG DAY. there is no way he can put out the effort to do quality work on the first 6 exercises of that day, or the 8 exercises on back day. And even if he COULD get 100% productivity out of that amount of volume, there’s no way he can hope to EAT enough to grow with that volume…and he’s worried about fat gain?!?

Seriously am I the only one in the twilight zone here?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
And am I the only one here who looks at that routine as asinine?? He’s doing 9 EXERCISES ON LEG DAY. there is no way he can put out the effort to do quality work on the first 6 exercises of that day, or the 8 exercises on back day. And even if he COULD get 100% productivity out of that amount of volume, there’s no way he can hope to EAT enough to grow with that volume…and he’s worried about fat gain?!?

Seriously am I the only one in the twilight zone here?[/quote]

Hell yeah I agree. With that many exercises there probably is not any decent amount of intensity for any of them. OP, pick the best ones and cut the number of different exercises in half and dedicate more intensity to the main ones.

[quote]Aopocetx wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
And am I the only one here who looks at that routine as asinine?? He’s doing 9 EXERCISES ON LEG DAY. there is no way he can put out the effort to do quality work on the first 6 exercises of that day, or the 8 exercises on back day. And even if he COULD get 100% productivity out of that amount of volume, there’s no way he can hope to EAT enough to grow with that volume…and he’s worried about fat gain?!?

Seriously am I the only one in the twilight zone here?[/quote]

Hell yeah I agree. With that many exercises there probably is not any decent amount of intensity for any of them. OP, pick the best ones and cut the number of different exercises in half and dedicate more intensity to the main ones.[/quote]

I don’t know about that… I do 9 exercises on leg day as well and they’ve been growing like weeds. However I am eating almost twice as much as the OP was in his first post. I just make sure to drink a lot of water and keep my mind focused and it really isn’t too hard to keep the intensity high throughout.

[quote]Peter Noto wrote:
I don’t know about that… I do 9 exercises on leg day as well and they’ve been growing like weeds. However I am eating almost twice as much as the OP was in his first post. I just make sure to drink a lot of water and keep my mind focused and it really isn’t too hard to keep the intensity high throughout.[/quote]

That’s not the type of intensity I’m talking about. I’m talking about doing 4 sets of weighted dips as opposed to doing 2 sets of weighted dips and 2 sets of weighted pushups. Basically focusing more on a lift you see as more beneficial. You’re using more intensity on one or two lifts and not being a jack of all trades, master of none so to speak.

3,000 calories is the recommended daily intake for a rested non trained person lol It is no wonder you haven’t made the gains… No surprise the advice about food has already been stated…

Maybe look into changing some peri workout nutrition as well… anyhow muscle is added in sleep, and fueled by what you eat so make sure nutrition and rest are always adequate.

Eat more.Lift more.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
And am I the only one here who looks at that routine as asinine?? He’s doing 9 EXERCISES ON LEG DAY. there is no way he can put out the effort to do quality work on the first 6 exercises of that day, or the 8 exercises on back day. And even if he COULD get 100% productivity out of that amount of volume, there’s no way he can hope to EAT enough to grow with that volume…and he’s worried about fat gain?!?

Seriously am I the only one in the twilight zone here?[/quote]

Three of those exercises are calf raises done at the end. Which regardless of how I ever did them never wiped me out during a routine. It’s a pretty standard routine for legs, with 2 major compound exercises(Squat and leg press) and 2 or 3 accessories (leg curls, extensions, stiff legged deadlifts). The sl deads can be done pretty intense but at 12-15 reps looks like he’s doing those as an accessory too. Let’s not go overboard with the propaganda.

Otherwise I agree he may need to add some intensity to his exercises.

First to answer all the questions/replies:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

But a meal for me is a freaking pound of steak. That’s damn near 1,000cals alone for that one meal. [/quote]

yeah no shit you eat that much look at you and look at me, its fucking common sense that you would eat a fuckload more than me.

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

Depending on what flavor the protein is, mixing a banana with some VCO or natty PB in the shake will be pretty tasty.

Ohh, and don’t worry about eating fats or carbs before bed. Calories eaten then doesn’t magically turn to fat because you eat it then. Some research even suggests carbs later in the day is BETTER for lean gains.

Regardless, just add 300-500 to your daily intake. That’s all you can do. I weigh roughly 185-190 and I’m eating 3400 calories a day, to add weight SLOWLY. Some people have to eat more then that. When I stop making gains, I’ll probably add more calories.

Just try it for a few weeks man.[/quote]

yeah dont worry i didnt miss it, thats exactly what im going to do, great advice btw, i’ll explain in more detail at the end of this post.

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

if you only want lean muscle gain you’re gonna need a whole hell of a lot of patience- in my mind when it comes to muscle gain you have a few choices

-Bulk up real fast with a lot of calories–add a lot of muscle and fat
-Gain lean mass slowly—dont gain as much fat- gain muscle slower

with the major bulk up method youll have to eventually lose the fat and if you want to keep all the muscle and strength you gained in this process, you are in for a long tedious dieting experience

with the gain lean mass approach you have to be patient- youll add muscle slower but wont get fat in the process…

to be honest both methods lead to same end result in the end-

if you choose the slower method you need more patience- and to get lean youre still going to have to diet eventually ;). I like everyones suggestion to add 300-500 calories and see where that takes you–make sure you hit the same calorie level every day- day in day out–no missing meals,ever… [/quote]

great advice grind, but yeah im gonna go for the lean gains approach for now as its summer over here in Australia, then i’ll probably bulk at about 4500 cals per day in winter

[quote]Smallfry69 wrote:

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you eat just a bit more than my 10 year old daughter. She usually has a half dozen egg whites with 2-3 yokes with a huge bowl of celery and a protein shake mixed with 2 cups of fruit for breakfast. She alternates the eggs with chicken/turkey breasts every other day. Exception is the weekend where she’ll eat a half dozen large pancakes, or I’ll do up a huge scrambled eggs, bacon, hashbrowns and toast breakfast with a protein shake to wash it all down with. [/quote]

sorry no offense but thats complete bullshit, define “a bit more” no 10 year old can eat that much and keep it down, and if she really can then shes gonna be a beast when she grows up, but yeah im going to increase calories and probably keep this as a cutting diet.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

And am I the only one here who looks at that routine as asinine?? He’s doing 9 EXERCISES ON LEG DAY. there is no way he can put out the effort to do quality work on the first 6 exercises of that day, or the 8 exercises on back day. And even if he COULD get 100% productivity out of that amount of volume, there’s no way he can hope to EAT enough to grow with that volume…and he’s worried about fat gain?!?

Seriously am I the only one in the twilight zone here? [/quote]

ahaha you can come and train with me and you’ll see that i can easily do that many exercises with high intensity, including drop sets and forced reps, i’ve always trained with high volume and seen awesome gains its just how i am, if i train with much less volume than that i feel nothing and gain nothing, ive tried it. But yes i am going to eat more.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

Three of those exercises are calf raises done at the end. Which regardless of how I ever did them never wiped me out during a routine. It’s a pretty standard routine for legs, with 2 major compound exercises(Squat and leg press) and 2 or 3 accessories (leg curls, extensions, stiff legged deadlifts). The sl deads can be done pretty intense but at 12-15 reps looks like he’s doing those as an accessory too. Let’s not go overboard with the propaganda.

Otherwise I agree he may need to add some intensity to his exercises. [/quote]

thankyou for actually realising that its not too much volume, but yeah i only go heavier on the sl deads (and for less reps) when i dont have access to a lying ham curl as i feel like that puts more mass on my hammies for me.

Anyway to sum up i’ll be adding about 500-1000 more calories every day, and just watch my body and see if thats too many (if i gain to much fat too quick) and will just lower accordingly, i’ll also keep the exact same workout regime for at least 4 weeks to sus out strength gains etc, im also going to log all exercise reps sets and weight just to monitor it closely. Thankyou to everyone for all the advice, its given me plenty of insight.

[quote]Aopocetx wrote:

[quote]Peter Noto wrote:
I don’t know about that… I do 9 exercises on leg day as well and they’ve been growing like weeds. However I am eating almost twice as much as the OP was in his first post. I just make sure to drink a lot of water and keep my mind focused and it really isn’t too hard to keep the intensity high throughout.[/quote]

That’s not the type of intensity I’m talking about. I’m talking about doing 4 sets of weighted dips as opposed to doing 2 sets of weighted dips and 2 sets of weighted pushups. Basically focusing more on a lift you see as more beneficial. You’re using more intensity on one or two lifts and not being a jack of all trades, master of none so to speak.[/quote]

Ahh I see, but considering his 9 exercises are on a leg day, I don’t see it as being too excessive. 1 - 2 exercises for each muscle right?

[quote]dopes1 wrote:
First to answer all the questions/replies:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

But a meal for me is a freaking pound of steak. That’s damn near 1,000cals alone for that one meal. [/quote]

yeah no shit you eat that much look at you and look at me, its fucking common sense that you would eat a fuckload more than me.

[/quote]

LOL.

When I started, a bowl of cereal made me wanna throw up.

I was probably smaller than you are now. I eat more because I forced my body to accept more and do something with it.

You, on the other hand just wasted a full year because you hate hamburgers.