Cannon Ball-Like Delts, The Next Step

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
61

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
What do you guys think of training shoulder more frequently than other parts in your split? Shoulder and lat width are things you should emphasize in your physique, and I think I’ve read CC recommend specializing in back width early on in your training career.

So what about shoulders? If you’re not one of those guys whose shoulders are hit heavily by other pressing then you might have to specialize in them to get cannonball status delts. The only issue is whther it’s healthy for your shoulders…maybe train side and rear delts more frequently, but keep front delts at normal frequency?

Right now I’m doing everything twice a week but down the line I’ll have to cut most down to once a week.
[/quote]

As i’ve learned and I know a few around here have experienced, shoulders take a while to recover, especially with all the other movements that indirectly or directly take a toll on them eg. bench, squats, etc. I get 2 days with them per week but my training is structured around a more PL/SM approach with some BB work thrown in as accessory. 1 day has more volume for my shoulders at a lighter weight, whereas the other takes volume lower but intensity up.

Just my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Thanks for the input.

I suppose one of the shoulder days could be an easy day, and with less front delt work.

62

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Upright rows do suck balls, I’ve never known anyone to have them as a staple in their routine lol.

And I’m sorry but once you reach a certain point, certainly after a few years, raises>presses shoulder development all day :stuck_out_tongue:

The only thing worse than a small shoulder is one that is completely over powered by front delt aka someone who utilizes presses for the meat of their shoulder workout/development for years on end.[/quote]

for the upright rows, like i said, Lol id never consider it a necessary movement.

As for the Raise>press statement…The point i think that should be clear is your workout shouldnt be multiple presses. I wouldnt say something like presses are useless period, because every professional ive looked at uses at least 1 press in their shoulder routine. If anything, its just the base to the pyramid though. It still serves a purpose. Raises> presses, but i will never NOT include 1 press in my routine.

[/quote]

upright rows suck balls %100… any ways when you get to a certain point (like way said and pretty much in his case) the load on the shoulders from such heavy weights will be a little risky from a joint-health POV.

jay cutler does pre-fatigue (lateral raises) before OHPing because his working weights were too much on his shoulders and spine

63

Man I recently added in upright rows to hit traps/lateral delts because I was kind of neglecting shoulders after working on bench…they feel fine but everyone seems to hate them lol

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

You know, i just recently started implementing some more “Explosion from pins” into my routine. I actually dont go as heavy, usually using about half weight. Major emphasis on the explosion. And also, thanks to Dorian, MOST of my exercises contain a large focus on the negative portion of the rep. It seems to be working pretty well actually. I just seem to be expanding weekly lol. My XLs are getting tight…[/quote]

Where are you putting these “explosions from pins”? At the beginning for more of an “activation”/practice effect or near the end as a finisher?

64

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
The only thing worse than a small shoulder is one that is completely over powered by front delt aka someone who utilizes presses for the meat of their shoulder workout/development for years on end.[/quote]
I totally agree. And it can be even worse than just presses…I just joined a gym and noticed tons of guys doing FRONT raises. It’s like the most popular movement in the gym. I’m also seeing weird crap I’ve never seen before, which to me looks like guys flinging light dumbbells around every which way. I wonder where they are getting the ideas to do this stuff.

That said, there are a couple guys with good shoulder development (not huge guys but clearly developed front, lateral, and rear delts), and I see them doing face pulls and rear delt machine. I notice that they have extremely good ROM on the rear delt. I always had poor ROM which is why I didn’t get good development from trying to do rear delts. I’m working on that now. I had like 20 degrees of external rotation in my right arm, for example; that can’t be good.

So the bottom line is that for proportional shoulder development, choose good movements, but also do them with appropriate ROM. If you have a tight pec minor, internally rotated shoulders, etc., you will not get good rear or lateral delt development before you injure your shoulder in some way. There might be some guys on this thread who need to address ROM just as much as exercise selection.

65

Good post andersons. I think that mobility work is something I definitely could stand to improve and the fact that can help you achieve better shoulder development in some fashion is something I regularly forget.

66

One of my training days look like:

pull ups
chin ups
Military Press

second like this:

leg raises
Deadlift
shrugs

so I’m on strength program, but disproportion between front head and rear are to fucking big to keep ignoring…

where to add rear delts movements??? first or second day???

think to consider: look at a rear delts as a part of back workout (with shrugs, bent rows, push/chin ups - it fits great!) or add this movement to shoulders day no matter what (military press, db press, lateral raises - many do only this, me to, yeah…)???

E: oh, also I remember that MODOK write somewhere that after many attempts, he stayed only with BENT ROWS as a movement for rear delts also, and they keep growing… so how it is?

E2: Akuma, you’re doing great work here, thanks.

67

Lately, I’ve turned up the frequency of my rear delt work. I’ll do them on back day and on shoulder day. I’m quite happy with my overall shoulder development but the rears are definitely something I need to work on.

68

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Waylander,
do you set a bench up with a vertical backrest in the smith machine to do overhead presses? Also, why do you recommend the smith machine, instead of cable press machine, overhead press machine, db press, bb press, etc (just wondering)[/quote]

I set it up at about 80 degrees or so, it’s not totally parallel to the ground, just a high incline.

Smith machine because I do chest/shoulders/triceps all on the same day so holding a loaded BB over my head is not something I want to do, all my stabilizer muscles or w/e you want to call them are fried.

69

I was pretty “lucky” to be one of those guys that focused on back wrong in my early training days. I never kept my shoulders locked in place while pulling, so at the bottom of every movement I’d overextend my shoulders then have to pull them back in before pulling with my back. Accidentally gave myself some decent development on rear head haha.

Now I hit them with shoulders and back every time.

70

My favorite shoulder exercises

Standing Barbell Military Press
Seated Barbell Shoulder Press
Seated Smith Machine Shoulder Press
Dumbbell Seated Shoulder Presses
Standing Single-Arm Shoulder Presses
Standing or Seated Dumbbell Lateral Raises
Machine Laterals
Bent Over Rear Delt Raises
Reverse Pec Deck Machine
Hammer Strength Shoulder Press
Rope Face Pulls

71

My fav rear delt exercise is the pullup… just sayin…

72

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Man I recently added in upright rows to hit traps/lateral delts because I was kind of neglecting shoulders after working on bench…they feel fine but everyone seems to hate them lol

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

You know, i just recently started implementing some more “Explosion from pins” into my routine. I actually dont go as heavy, usually using about half weight. Major emphasis on the explosion. And also, thanks to Dorian, MOST of my exercises contain a large focus on the negative portion of the rep. It seems to be working pretty well actually. I just seem to be expanding weekly lol. My XLs are getting tight…[/quote]

Where are you putting these “explosions from pins”? At the beginning for more of an “activation”/practice effect or near the end as a finisher?[/quote]

At the beginning. I place the pins just above the muscle, explode up to a stop, focus on the negative portion of the weight, then pause at the bottom, allowing the weight to hit the pins but keeping the pressure from my delts on the weight.

73

[quote]RMorrison wrote:
My fav rear delt exercise is the pullup… just sayin…[/quote]

Yes but you need more. You’re going to get some rear delt involvement in a pullup i suppose, but when you get serious about pullups, the majority of the weight moved is moved by the lats. I do pullups with a pullup belt, sometimes working up to 2 45’s on it, thats an extra 90lbs. 350lb pullups is no joke, and rear delts cant handle that. If one is denying More isolation work to their rear delts because they feel that something like pullups hits them well, then they will have some terribly disproportional delts, with a large front head, a level lateral head, and a concave where the rear should be.

74

[quote]Simonidas wrote:
One of my training days look like:

pull ups
chin ups
Military Press

second like this:

leg raises
Deadlift
shrugs

so I’m on strength program, but disproportion between front head and rear are to fucking big to keep ignoring…

where to add rear delts movements??? first or second day???

think to consider: look at a rear delts as a part of back workout (with shrugs, bent rows, push/chin ups - it fits great!) or add this movement to shoulders day no matter what (military press, db press, lateral raises - many do only this, me to, yeah…)???

E: oh, also I remember that MODOK write somewhere that after many attempts, he stayed only with BENT ROWS as a movement for rear delts also, and they keep growing… so how it is?

E2: Akuma, you’re doing great work here, thanks.
[/quote]

Rear delts is a delt, add them with your delt day. Dont start separating Deltoids into different days. Ive said this in a couple different threads now lol, the row is going to hit differently depending on your stance. if you’re upright and pulling to your waist, its a great Lat movement, if you’re bent over parallel and pulling higher on your chest, its a great upper back movement. The upper girdle is going include things like the infraspinatus, traps, rear delts, Rhomboid, etc. If you train consistently with parallel rows, you’re going to be working up to some decent weight, and i wouldnt say the rear delts are tremendously strong, not in retrospect at least, so they’re gonna take some damage. Id also wager that Modok was hitting his rear delts elsewhere in his routine, be it through high lat pull downs, or some other high rowing. I mean, if you’re aiming for your upperback, i think you’re pretty much always gonna tag your rear delts in too.

75

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]RMorrison wrote:
My fav rear delt exercise is the pullup… just sayin…[/quote]

Yes but you need more. You’re going to get some rear delt involvement in a pullup i suppose, but when you get serious about pullups, the majority of the weight moved is moved by the lats. I do pullups with a pullup belt, sometimes working up to 2 45’s on it, thats an extra 90lbs. 350lb pullups is no joke, and rear delts cant handle that. If one is denying More isolation work to their rear delts because they feel that something like pullups hits them well, then they will have some terribly disproportional delts, with a large front head, a level lateral head, and a concave where the rear should be.[/quote]

Tell that to DC guys.

76

[quote]RMorrison wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]RMorrison wrote:
My fav rear delt exercise is the pullup… just sayin…[/quote]

Yes but you need more. You’re going to get some rear delt involvement in a pullup i suppose, but when you get serious about pullups, the majority of the weight moved is moved by the lats. I do pullups with a pullup belt, sometimes working up to 2 45’s on it, thats an extra 90lbs. 350lb pullups is no joke, and rear delts cant handle that. If one is denying More isolation work to their rear delts because they feel that something like pullups hits them well, then they will have some terribly disproportional delts, with a large front head, a level lateral head, and a concave where the rear should be.[/quote]

Tell that to DC guys.[/quote]

A better retort would be pic of your rear delts :slight_smile:

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Good one… Here comes the part where I backtrack and tell you that I never said I had big shoulders. Oh, well… here’s a (blurry) pic… not huge but not ridiculously out of balance…

78

I just recently changed my shoulder routine hitting them twice a week. The volume may be a little much but I’m going to adapt as I go. All are sets of 6 reps ramped until I grind then I’ll decrease the weight and do one max effort rest pause set to finish the exercise.

Seated deadstop DB lateral raises
Cable lateral raises behind back
Barbell push press
Smith Press behind head

I’ve always done my pressing first, but decided to change it up a bit since my medial delt like so many others is overpowered by my anterior delt.

Thoughts?

79

[quote]RMorrison wrote:
Good one… Here comes the part where I backtrack and tell you that I never said I had big shoulders. Oh, well… here’s a (blurry) pic… not huge but not ridiculously out of balance… [/quote]

Just messin with you, holmes. I’ve always done pull-ups since the start of my training and always had shit rear delts until I started using more direct plans of attack. But if yours are growing fine from pull ups then keep doing your thing.

80

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]RMorrison wrote:
Good one… Here comes the part where I backtrack and tell you that I never said I had big shoulders. Oh, well… here’s a (blurry) pic… not huge but not ridiculously out of balance… [/quote]

Just messin with you, holmes. I’ve always done pull-ups since the start of my training and always had shit rear delts until I started using more direct plans of attack. But if yours are growing fine from pull ups then keep doing your thing.[/quote]

Dude, your arm in your avatar is killing me. Its bigger than your whole fucking shoulder. Did you photoshop you leg into you shoulder? Please tell me you did. Teardrop looks good…