“One of the main sources of the â??Olympic lifts donâ??t build strengthâ?? argument has also stated that one should be able to clean between 50% and 60% of your maximum deadlift, and that anything more than this is the result of extreme athletic ability. This is difficult to fathom, as I cannot ever recall anyone with percentages so low!”
Is this really an accurate statement? I watch the Cal Strength videos for fun and I’ve seen one lifter struggle with a 405 deadlift despite being capable of cleaning at least 125kg/275+. I think he’s done 140kg/308 actually. This lifter is also exceptionally fast under the bar.
I can pull 495 beltless most days, but there is no way I’m cleaning more than 60% of that…even with good technique. It seems like an entirely arbitrary ratio that ignores the significance of advantageous leverages for the deadlift.
For those skilled at Olympic lifts, what is the ratio of your clean to deadlift?
[quote]DaTruth1 wrote:
I’m pretty average, 2 years in. I deadlift 170-175 and clean 132.[/quote]
That’s an insane ratio. What would you describe your body type as? Long limbs/short torso, medium/average all around, short limbs, long torso?
I’ve heard of some lifters missing front squats in training and then cleaning 5 kg more in competition…that seems utterly insane to me.[/quote]
When you consider that they almost always squat after heavy snatches and cleans, while competitions are usually considerably less volume than in training, I’m not that surprised. But that is still crazy efficiency.
I deadlift 240kg and have cleaned 135kg. Most experienced lifters I have trained with don’t have too big of a deadlift, for example one of our lifters snatches 140kg CJ 160kg (approx) and has max deadlift of 235kg. From my experience, deadlifts aren’t very specific to the oly lifts so there isn’t much focus on building up a deadlift.
I’ve cleaned 177, racked 183 but couldn’t stand up with it, and my deadlift is . . . I have no idea haha. I don’t really do really heavy pulls. Snatch and clean deadlifts are something I’ve only really incorporated over the last 6-7 months or so, always with pauses at the knee and at mid-thigh, most I clean deadlifted in that fashion was around 190 I think, can’t remember if that would’ve been a true max effort though. I think I’ve had 200 on the bar for a regular deadlift before, but that would’ve been a few years back. I’m generally more inclined to just do pulls up to around 10-15kg over my max, making sure I hold position properly.
One thing’s for damn sure though, I don’t fit that 50-60% standard, there’s no way in hell I could deadlift in the 300-350kg range haha.
I have a poor deadlift lately due to a layoff of injured shoulder. But I could RDL 245 for reps. C&J 225 at 190lbs easy, I remember everything felt strong and explosive, no struggle at all. One thing I always watched for was whether you are power cleaning or actually cleaning, as in catching in the bottom front squat position. I’m a bit skeeerd to go back to Oly lifting since I’m getting older and shoulder health is becoming more of a concern, on top of my two torn meniscus in both my right and left knee.
Ahh, the glory days…for me I would rarely work up to a 1rep max as I did a lot of complexes. I followed Wil Flemming a lot, he’s got a fucking great blog if you want to read good material on oly lifts. Looking back I wish I really tested my numbers, but I was so caught up in complexes - probably how I hurt myself not giving enough variation.
[quote]amayakyrol wrote:
“One of the main sources of the â??Olympic lifts donâ??t build strengthâ?? argument has also stated that one should be able to clean between 50% and 60% of your maximum deadlift, and that anything more than this is the result of extreme athletic ability. This is difficult to fathom, as I cannot ever recall anyone with percentages so low!”
Is this really an accurate statement? I watch the Cal Strength videos for fun and I’ve seen one lifter struggle with a 405 deadlift despite being capable of cleaning at least 125kg/275+. I think he’s done 140kg/308 actually. This lifter is also exceptionally fast under the bar.
I can pull 495 beltless most days, but there is no way I’m cleaning more than 60% of that…even with good technique. It seems like an entirely arbitrary ratio that ignores the significance of advantageous leverages for the deadlift.
For those skilled at Olympic lifts, what is the ratio of your clean to deadlift?[/quote]
What you don’t understand is that Cleaning is a very specific and skilled movement. You won’t magically get to the 50-60% ratio without 1000’s of hrs of work. More so if your a strong deadlifter.
I’m a weak deadlifter but can Cn well.
Most I’ve ever DL is 200kg. Most I’ve Cn is 167.5kg. If I was actually a good/ okay deadlifter I should be able to do at least 220-235kg and that would give me about 70-72%. Also positional strength is very different. On the 200kg DL my back was perfectly straight and with no belt. The top did not round as most DL tend to do when it’s heavy. I’m weak in positions I’m not use to and I don’t do any pulling with a rounded back. I’ve Sn pulled 175kg with a straight back as well.
You have a good basis for lifting with a good deadlift but if you want to Cn anywhere near 50% of that DL you will have to spend quite a bit of time learning to Cn.
Koing makes good points, as usual. Mine is 152/215, c70%, another lifter I know is 220/320, just under 70%, others I know are also around high 60, low 70. That last example is now deadlifting around 400+ @110, having switched from olympic to power (all kg).
I guess the point is “what is the point?” eg specificity/goal/strong in what sense/application…
I think the Russians and others have standards to compare squats to olympic lifts etc but obviously the % changes if your training emphasis changes.
Olympic lifting clearly builds significant strength but it’s more about power/speed/technique, whereas Powerlifting is more about pure strength. That said, I know numerous olympic lifters who can match/beat powerlifters, not so much vice versa due to technique, speed and/or flexibility.
most olympic lifters very rarely dl, if ever. A lot of us do high volume heavy pulls eg 120% 5 sets of 3, with good form (speed/height/positioning). Some do very little pulling too and mainly do classics and front squats (too many variables/dependencies! (btw this all assumes reasonable technique and programming… Which many don’t have these days…))
In short, olympic lifting does build significant strength.
Another point is that olympic lifters of yesteryear often did predominantly classics and little else, yet they were very strong and made good progress, not to mention lifting a very significant % of today’s best.
Although pulls, presses and squats are generally viewed as the strengthening lifts incorporated by olympic lifters I really believe that the snatch and clean&jerk can do huge things for your strength when performed correctly with real intensity/volume.
Try doing 5 sets of 3 of clean&jerk with real intensity and you will understand how much the back/quads/hamstrings/traps are worked. It’s very easy to fall into the trap of performing oly lifts with huge rest periods and very short reps that don’t allow as much of a tax on strength. This is where I value the Chinese idea of workload - they look at how many reps are being performed in a certain time period as well as the intensity and number of reps.
Obviously when you are beginning to learn technique the intensity will not be as high but this means that you can perform larger sets which should offer a substantial strength (albeit slightly more endurance strength) stimulus along with grooving technique.
At my best I had a deadlift of 245kg to my clean of 125kg as an 80kg lifter. I have long arms though so the deadlift was always much easier for me than cleans. My best jerk was only 115kg.
As for building strength, absolutely. The only strongman competition I took first in I spent most of my time Olympic lifting and actually did very little events. When I actually did the events at the competition (log press, farmer’s walk, tire flip, deadlift for reps, keg carry) I did very well on all of them.