OK Cress, maybe I was wrong, but I could swear that I read somehwere that Poliquin advocates post workout cardio to extend you workout to over an hour. I guess not though.
Timbo - MW = lifting, TR = HIIT with a little core work (core work might be moved to MW though). That would leave my jump rope work, high rep kettlebell circuits and 400m runs to constitute my HIIT. As for post-lifting cardio, I may give it a try if you think it will help.
I won’t be using MAG-10 for my refeeds now, but I may try that in the future. I just thought it was an interesting idea.
SRS - My lifting workouts are taking about 45 minutes from start to finish. I’m taking 1-3 minutes of rest between sets to pretty much allow for full recovery. I’m thinking that I’ll be moving my core work to the lifting days to keep things more consitent, so that will extend the sessions just a bit. That way I can really concentrate on lots of energy expenditure during the HIIT sessions.
Isn’t building muscle and losing fat at the same time very easy?I thought it was easy to do. I have built muscle and loss fat during the same time period. It wasn’t hard at all. When you lifts weights arn’t you speeding up your metabolism and building muscle?
Too build muscle and lose fat effectively from my experiance it is good to do some areobic type of activity,but not too much, and to do more intense activity like weightlifting,spriniting plyometrics.I think it’s important not to overdo the aerobic stuff because you will burn too much calories. Also for diet from my experiance I would try and eat healthy and eat good nutriotuos foods and eat protein. In my opinion i think diet is overanyalized way too much. Just try and eat good healthy foods and get protein.
Just checking in to let you all know that I did a trial run of this plan today. It started off with 25 minutes of walking on the TM with Sportscenter (preceded by 5g BCAAs and 2 MD6), followed by my normal P&F breakfast. Meals were P&F up until my 2-3PM hip dominant/calves/core workout. With this session, I consumed 65g carbs (and set a PR by pulling 310 for 5x5 on SLDLs). I didn’t even think about doing any cardio post-training, as hip dominant day ALWAYS makes me want to just curl up in the fetal position on my couch and die. I will say, however, that after giving it some more thought, I’m not as opposed to ten minutes of low intensity cardio as I had originally stated. Anyway, one hour after finishing my Surge, I took in 100g carbs and 50g protein from a combo of oatmeal, a spinach/broccoli/salsa egg white omelet (no cheese), and some protein powder. I used balsamic vinegar on the omelet to lower the GI (old CP recommendation) and some cinnamon (disputed enhancer of glucose tolerance) on the oatmeal. I also took 300mg ALA pre-training and pre-oatmeal. The oatmeal feeding also included one tab vanadyl sulfate. 2.5 hours later, I returned to P&F; spinach, turkey, and ground flaxseeds. In a few minutes, I’ll have my pre-bed P&F.
All in all, I like the setup. My energy was good for the training session and the TM work wasn’t overly strenuous. I will admit, however, that the oatmeal and omelet meal put me in an insulin induced coma on the couch for about an hour after consumption. It could have been that I was a little tired to begin with, but I’d say that it was mostly due to the carb intake. This is a side effect that I’m willing to tolerate, as I definitely felt fuller, but, more importantly, not at all bloated, for the rest of the day (a problem that I’ve had with refeeds that last more than 2 meals). I’ll be sticking with the one big P&C meal for now, and perhaps adding in another later on if results are promising.
Diet aside, I’m still having a pisser of a time trying to piece together my program. I’d forgotten how hard it was to work cardio/HIIT into a bulking cycle separate from weight training sessions. I’ll be using how I feel tomorrow (my rest day) as a gauge of whether or not I can handle sprints on the day after deads and good mornings. Normally, they wipe me out completely, and I need the day off immediately after training them. I did some cryotherapy post-training today, so we’ll see how that goes.
So, all in all, I’m hitting the sack tonight with good feelings about this diet. In fact, I might even be motivated enough to bust out my jump rope for a little unscheduled fun before I head out to classes tomorrow at the buttcrack of dawn.
What do you guys think of starting up “Version 2.0” of this thread? It’s starting to take a while to open up. First thing’s first, though: we need to come up with a bitchin’ name for this here plan before we can name a thread after it. Any suggestions?
There you have it, folks! The pancea to all our bodybuilding endeavors! Terminator, you get the gold medal and post of the day. That’s exactly why everyone is walking around huge and ripped…it’s just that easy;-)
Jay, that’s what I thought about the separate cardio and lifting. I didn’t mean to make you repeat yourself. I like the core work with the lifting sessions and the HIIT sessions left alone.
I definitely think the Surge post-cardio will be beneficial. We’ve already seen that consuming protein and carbs (even in extremely large amounts) neither inhibits lipolyis nor stimulates lipogenesis.
To Terminator:
I hope you are joking. It’s definitely not as easy as you say. This may be the case as a newbie but as your training and diet progress; it becomes a lot harder to gain muscle or lose fat and keep the muscle you’ve gained.
E-C, great feedback, jigga. Glad to hear that things went well. I’d just play the HIIT day-by-day. If you’re lifting four session per week, and HIIT’n it twice, then one rest day should be fine.
Glad to hear that things went well. I would say that it was probably a tandem of hard work and carbs that made you a little sluggish.
I was wondering why you took the ALA before your training session? I haven’t used ALA before, so I don’t really know the timing issues of it.
By the way, E-C, I like the new location;-)
I would probably also like to see you up the treadmill to 30 or 45 minutes, if for no other reason, to catch more SportsCenter. C’mon, E-C, there’s good stuff after the first 25 minutes, especially if you start in the middle of a half-hour session!
Your feeding protocol looks great. I’m actually going to try to switch things around myself. I usually train after my first meal of the day. However, I’m going to push it all the way to the other end of the spectrum. Well, I’ll try it once and see how it works. I’m like an old man, though, and I need to go to bed early:-) Perhaps it’s due to the strenuous workout in the morning. Recently, I’ve been relatively worthless during the day as the week rolls on. Today, I sat on my arse and even took a nap!
Don’t you have Spring Break this week, E-C?
Well, since Terminator already declared that this is nothing special and is easily accomplished, I see no need to break out another thread. If so, I think our dog T-X should crank that sumbitch up. Whatcha think, Terminator?
Man, I’m being too harsh.
well I don’t mean it’s easy in a sense as I can just sit on my ass,or only do little exercise and this will happen. I’m just saying the basic principle is simple.Do areobic work to burn fat but not to much and do anareobic work to build muscle.Eat a good diet. Their are many different variations on what a good diet is,what is good aerobic work and what is good anaerobic work,what type of volume should be used,what exercises ect. Timbo the reason there is not many huge ripped people out there is because many people train wrong and do not understand basic principles and are not consistent in their diet and exercise.
Eric, thanks for the input on the post-HIIT drink. Makes perfect sense to me!
One question, though. Just out of curiousity, why add dextrose instead of glucose to your maltodextrin?
Okay, ammend that to two questions: whey protein has a good BCAA profile, so why exactly is it necessary to add additional BCAA’s? I don’t mean to be ignorant (hell, I even did as we constantly have to coach the newbies to do - a search!), but if you could shed a little light on it, I’d appreciate it.
Timbo, I agree that it makes sense to take advantage of the one hour window post-HIIT to consume a small low glycemic P/C meal in addition to the pre/post workout drink Eric’s talking about. It feels kind of instinctive to me-I get a craving for some quality, clean nutrition not long after a grueling HIIT session.
Timbo - That was great bro. I even had my wife laughing with that one.
Terminator - I see where you are going, but I think the approach and goal here is quite different. Obviously, consistency with a good diet and training program over time will build a good body and I think that is what you are trying to say. But I think we are trying to push the boundaries a little bit and acheive both goals within a shorter and simultaneous time period.
I agree, we probably need to hit version 2.0 sometime soon so that we can spit some feedback and really custom tailor this puppy. I realize that each of our approaches is slightly different in nature, but in the end, I think we are all doing something similar.
T-Rock-Spring Break is next week, although Senioritis officially kicked in several months ago. I’ve heard unconfirmed reports that this affliction can in fact be anabolic…
I’ll be “jacking up” the walking sessions to at least 30 minutes in the future; I had a Gross Anatomy exam to go to early Wednesday AM (I would have hated to have left two dozen cadavers waiting). Thanks for the props on the location; it’s getting warmer here, and Lukewarm Scrotum just didn’t sound right:)
Honestly, I didn’t even bother to answer Terminator’s post when I saw it; he singlehandedly took an intelligent, scientific discussion and turned it into water fountain chit-chat between a couple of “Flex” readers in fluorescent, polka-dot, baggy pants…
I’ll be getting my plan done once and for all within the next 24 hours. Keep the T-high, fellas.
Terminator:
You know, quantum physics is actually pretty simple in principle. Let’s all run down to our local universities and pick up degrees in it, shall we? Certainly couldn’t hurt to have on our resumes.
I did it again! I lost my post…dang:-) You’d think that I’d have learned by now.
Anyway, Terminator, if you’re not familiar with my posting style, much of what I write is full of tongue-in-cheek statements. While I always try to pass along knowledge bombs, I like to fill them with some quality good times. That said, Terminator, you said this: [quote]Their are many different variations on what a good diet is,what is good aerobic work and what is good anaerobic work,what type of volume should be used,what exercises ect. Timbo the reason there is not many huge ripped people out there is because many people train wrong and do not understand basic principles and are not consistent in their diet and exercise.[/quote]
That in and of itself explains why this is so difficult. Having every single variable not only perfectly tailored to one’s needs but also applied to a T on a consistent basis is very difficult.
Jay, I’m very glad to hear that I cause some mutual bonding between the two of you. You know, as I mentioned above, I often set out with the sole purpose to entertain. I’m glad that I have been successful in at least one scenario.
E-C, Senioritis is definitely anabolic. As you begin to study less and worry less, you’re golden, brutha. This is often why I recommend busting ass early and through half to three quarters through the semester. When the end of the semester rolls around, you’re golden, while others are simply jacking up cortisol like a mofo, worrying about every little deadline and studying (or thinking they’re studying) 24/7.
Who’s gonna jack up 2.0?
Timbo,- OK so maybe I was taking that Glycogen guesstimation from the “average population” vs physique training athletes. Thanks for the correction.
I also do see the logic for your advocation of 1 more P/C meal post the initial post-HIIT surge/ other P/C drink. Yes, that would probably get around the tricky timing of the restoration of normal Insulin levels, and the return to fat-burning. Plus, you’ve still got the rest of the day for P/F and re-initiating lipid metabolism to the fullest.
Jay- I DO like the look of the training plan- the lifting program will be a nice short, sharp shock to the system. Thanks again for listing that. Any ideas on the Saturday workout yet? - The machine workout Zev suggested might be worth a shot. Either that, or perhaps a similar circuit based routine 8-10r with free-weights, short rests?
As for the Mag10, I’m afraid I’m a bit skeptical on this one- I don’t really think a couple of isolated doses like that will have much effect at all. But hey, if you’re gonna give it a try anyway then I’d like to hear if you think it makes a difference.
SRS
mamann-Sorry I missed your earlier question regarding my home brew post-HIIT shake. I use a dextrose/malto combination in order to best replicate Surge. In light of recent studies that malto kicks dextrose’s butt in regards to overall value in the post-workout period, I’ve considered going to straight malto, but malto tastes like ass without dextrose…
Regarding the inclusion of supplemental BCAAs, here’s some date for you on whey isolate’s amino acid profile:
Isoleucine: 6.2%
Valine: 5.8%
Leucine: 9.9%
With BCAAs, it’s 100% among the three. Given the exorbitant amounts that Serrano and CP have recommended in the past to see favorable results, adding some directly seems necessary to me (unless you’re taking in a LOT of whey).
Zev-Funny shit; can I pick up that degree on the way to NYC? It would look great on the wall next to the double major diploma I’ll be getting…
Got it, Eric. Thanks!
That’s one more weapon to add to my arsenal of supplements…BCAA’s…
Since this endevour is, essentially, the search for the holy grail of bodybuilding (gaining muscle/losing fat at the same time), it’s only appropriate that the new thread is named accordingly. 
Cress:
On the way back from NYC, we can stop by this little school up the road from my house called M.I.T. – I think it’s a technical college or something – and pick up some physics degrees. If they’re closed, no worries – there’s this other place called Harvard right up the road.
Getting more degrees is always a good idea.