Caloric Needs of the Hardgainer?

Nutrition
1

Is there a way to calculate the caloric needs of a skinny guy who wants to gain?

I suppose it’d be based around the basal metabolic rate but what are your experiences with “bulking” how many calories over BMR did you have to consume?

I’m currently 165 pounds at 6’2". My diet is 40% protein 40% carb 20% fat.

I’m pulling in about 4500 quality calories a day split over 6-8 meals. (including EFA oil, creatine, pre-bed casein/whey blend, and ZMA)

The gains are coming pretty slowly though, I guess it’s just my metabolism to blame but eating more than I already do would be difficult to stomach so would you think that 4.5k should be satisfactory or should I add another meal?

(If you were wondering, I train heavy and hard with low volume allowing ample rest between workouts.)

Thanks in advance.

2

Your workout could be lacking due to low volume but if you arn’t even putting on fat than its your calorie intake. I would recommend adding two-three more meals in, trying to obtain 5500 calories a day.

Quit being a fruit basket and eat more frequently. Every 2 hours. If you’re eating every two already, your not eating enough per sitting.

You cant expect to eat clean 100% of the time at that weight/height. There is a reason they call it bulking.

3

[quote]LiftSmart wrote:

I’m currently 165 pounds at 6’2". My diet is 40% protein 40% carb 20% fat.

I’m pulling in about 4500 quality calories a day split over 6-8 meals. (including EFA oil, creatine, pre-bed casein/whey blend, and Z

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Are you sure you are getting 450 grams of protein 450 grams of carbs and 100 grams of fat?

What kind of gains are coming in what sort of time period?

Also what sort of progress have you made in your lifts in the gym?
I disagree that low volume workouts are “lacking” but that’s under the assumption that you are KILLING it in the gym for progress.

4

How long have you been training and eating this amount, and when you say the gains are coming slowly, what exactly does that mean in terms of pounds per week?

Also:

How old are you?

Do you have a job and if so what kind?

Do you play sports?

5

[quote]naughtybox wrote:
Your workout could be lacking due to low volume but if you arn’t even putting on fat than its your calorie intake. I would recommend adding two-three more meals in, trying to obtain 5500 calories a day.

Quit being a fruit basket and eat more frequently. Every 2 hours. If you’re eating every two already, your not eating enough per sitting.

You cant expect to eat clean 100% of the time at that weight/height. There is a reason they call it bulking.[/quote]

What would you recommend as “unclean” food? Why is there a difference?

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
How long have you been training and eating this amount, and when you say the gains are coming slowly, what exactly does that mean in terms of pounds per week?

Also:

How old are you?

Do you have a job and if so what kind?

Do you play sports?[/quote]

I’ve been training for six months at 4500 cals a day, as for lbs per week I’d estimate at .4 lbs/week but I’d attribute that to beginner gains because in the last month or two it has stopped completely. (Went from 155-165 lean gain in about 4 months)(Unless of course you’d say that 6 months into lifting I’d still be getting beginner gains?)

I’m 18 years old.

I’m in between jobs at the moment.

I downhill longboard and play basketball occasionally. (Not part of a team)

~

I realize that gaining 10 lbs in four months wouldn’t be considered very bad at all, the main reason I’m posting this is because it’s stopped in the last 2 months with no difference in lifestyle.

6

8 hours of sleep a day, without exception. I cannot stress how important that is at your age.

Post your diet / workout log, and if you don’t have those, that IS your problem right there.

7

Hardgainer? People still use this?

There are about as many true hardgainers as there are Ronnie Coleman’s.

8

You shouldn’t add another meal, and you shouldn’t post about this issue on this forum, because you won’t get the help you need.

Posts like the one made by naughtybox demonstrate that people will use any excuse they can get their hands on to go after a skinny guy who is trying to gain weight.

I GUARANTEE that if you had written that you were trying to bulk on junk food, there would be people yelling at you to clean up your diet and “add more quality calories”.

But because you posted that you’re eating quality calories, you now have people yelling at you to eat junk.

You absolutely CANNOT win with this crowd.
The only thing people are going to tell you to do is eat more.

It doesn’t matter if you’re already taking 4,500, 5,000, or more calories…they will simply tell you to add more - nobody gives a fuck.

You’re 6’2, 165. Quite lanky, but not anorexic and at least somewhat appealing to women.

You should know that most of the regular posters here are vertically challenged guys who obsess over mass to make up for their genetic shortcoming - which you don’t share, obviously. Hence, it wouldn’t be prudent for you to take their advice.

If weight gain is what you’re after, 4,500 calories at your weight is plenty. The reason you can’t gain is likely hormonal. It’s time to see a metabolic specialist and get some testing done.

9

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

If weight gain is what you’re after, 4,500 calories at your weight is plenty. The reason you can’t gain is likely hormonal. It’s time to see a metabolic specialist and get some testing done. [/quote]

Because it just could not be possible, on this planet or others, that this guy is miscalculating how much he thinks he eats?

Because it is impossible that an active guy at 6’2" could need more calories than you might think?

I am glad you aren’t a doctor.

10

Read massive eating by John Berardi. There are calculations in there.

11

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:

If weight gain is what you’re after, 4,500 calories at your weight is plenty. The reason you can’t gain is likely hormonal. It’s time to see a metabolic specialist and get some testing done.

Because it just could not be possible, on this planet or others, that this guy is miscalculating how much he thinks he eats?

Because it is impossible that an active guy at 6’2" could need more calories than you might think?

I am glad you aren’t a doctor.[/quote]

Yea, I’m also glad I’m not a conventional doctor. If I was, I might be telling him to immediately reduce his calories by 2,000 to meet the 2,500 daily requirement set by the FDA in the 1950’s. Doctors aren’t bodybuilders, and they don’t understand bodybuilding. You tell a doctor that you’re eating more than 4,000 calories a day, and he’ll think there’s something wrong with your head.

If he’s miscalculating the calories, he’s miscalculating the calories. My advice is centered on the assumption that he is truly consuming 4,500 a day, just as he claimed. What good will it do for us to give advice if he can’t even add up his calories properly? By definition, all advice given to him is predicated on his description of his current situation. If the latter is misrepresented, said advice will prove to be erroneous. Faulty premises, faulty conclusion.

No, it’s not possible that an “active guy at 6’2” could need more than 4,500 calories a day - because in this case, we’re talking about a guy who weighs 165. If he was at 205, this would be slightly more feasible. As it is, there is a gross disparity between his food consumption and his body weight.

To tell him that he needs to consume something like 6,000 calories a day in order to reach 200, when there are millions of people of his height and age who maintain 200 on 2,500 a day, is simply ludicrous. Clearly, something doesn’t add up.

When someone can’t gain or lose weight, the problem is always hormonal.

12

Shazaam…
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=811783

13

Shazaam…
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=811783

14

OP, you don’t need to worry about calculations as much as results. Eat more and more until you start gaining. When the gains stop further down the road, time to increase calories again.

The bottom line is if you’re not gaining, you’re not eating enough. Your body doesn’t care about what your calculated caloric intake should be. If it takes 2,000 calories for you to gain, eat that, if it takes 10,000 eat that.

15

The short answer is, if your gains stopped, you need to add calories to get them going again. Adding ten pounds of muscle would up your daily calorie needs. So add 200 calories a day and see what happens.

The long answer is, you probably have a mistake in your calculations. That’s okay, because counting calories, measuring portions, etc, isn’t easy, and you won’t get it perfect overnight. You made descent gains, so you were doing things right, but in the long run knowing how to calculate calories is a skill you’ll need, so throw your old numbers out and start from scratch measuring everything, and adding everything up. Keep eating what you’re eating, but do all the math again from the beginning.

Here is a link to the calorie calculator on Berardi’s website:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_1.htm
There are a lot of great articles there on how to eat to gain so read them, think about it, read again.

16

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
<<< No, it’s not possible that an “active guy at 6’2” could need more than 4,500 calories a day - because in this case, we’re talking about a guy who weighs 165. >>>[/quote]

I disagree that this is not possible. It is possible that he is 165 at that height just because his metabolism does in fact chew up that many calories. Yes this crowd will always tell somebody who isn’t gaining to eat more. Somebody, especially a noob who is working at all in the gym and not making gains is clearly not eating enough. The numbers are entirely relative. There’s no such thing as universally applicable formulas where this or that number guarantees anything.

Regardless of how much he’s eating, this side of sanity, if he’s not gaining he needs more or else he is utterly clueless under the iron.

Any number of explanations are much more likely than he has a legitimate endocrine disorder, but like it or not the most likely is that he simply is not eating enough.

17

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

Yea, I’m also glad I’m not a conventional doctor. If I was, I might be telling him to immediately reduce his calories by 2,000 to meet the 2,500 daily requirement set by the FDA in the 1950’s. Doctors aren’t bodybuilders, and they don’t understand bodybuilding. You tell a doctor that you’re eating more than 4,000 calories a day, and he’ll think there’s something wrong with your head.[/quote]

I’m a bodybuilder. I’m also a doctor (DMD). If this kid came to me and mentioned he could not gain weight, I would assume he isn’t eating enough. I would not assume that the kid had somehow perfectly calculated his caloric intake and that this must be an endocrine or systemic problem. I am not sure what you plan to accomplish with posts like this.

[quote]
If he’s miscalculating the calories, he’s miscalculating the calories. My advice is centered on the assumption that he is truly consuming 4,500 a day, just as he claimed. What good will it do for us to give advice if he can’t even add up his calories properly? By definition, all advice given to him is predicated on his description of his current situation. If the latter is misrepresented, said advice will prove to be erroneous. Faulty premises, faulty conclusion.[/quote]

Gee, welcome to reality. Most patients don’t have a clue. Some lie. Some have based their ideas on false information to begin with. No doctor goes into an examination room and assumes that patient couldn’t be leaving something out or simply have a false notion of their own symptoms.

[quote]
No, it’s not possible that an “active guy at 6’2” could need more than 4,500 calories a day - because in this case, we’re talking about a guy who weighs 165. If he was at 205, this would be slightly more feasible. As it is, there is a gross disparity between his food consumption and his body weight. [/quote]

Ridiculous. This completely leaves out that whole “individual metabolism” aspect, his activity level, and even his own goals.

[quote]
When someone can’t gain or lose weight, the problem is always hormonal.[/quote]

It couldn’t be their misunderstanding of their own food intake?

You shouldn’t be giving advice.

18

Can hardgainers cheat more when it comes to food?

19

[quote]Digity wrote:
Can hardgainers cheat more when it comes to food?[/quote]

Quit using that term. We should ban it.

If you are referring to someone with a faster than average metabolism, yes, they can get away with eating more calories and can get away without being as strict with their food intake.

20

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

No, it’s not possible that an “active guy at 6’2” could need more than 4,500 calories a day - because in this case, we’re talking about a guy who weighs 165. If he was at 205, this would be slightly more feasible. As it is, there is a gross disparity between his food consumption and his body weight.

To tell him that he needs to consume something like 6,000 calories a day in order to reach 200, when there are millions of people of his height and age who maintain 200 on 2,500 a day, is simply ludicrous. Clearly, something doesn’t add up.

When someone can’t gain or lose weight, the problem is always hormonal.[/quote]

You are wrong. It could well be hormonal. But some people simply do have lighting fast metabolisms while other have extremely slow metabolism. There are always outliers. I personally know people who’ve been thoroughly checked, have no hormonal issues and simply need to put down obscene amounts of food to put on weight. But this works. Others I know have actually had overactive thyroids and problems that required medical attention.