[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
I’m sorry,
My point was that with these elite lifts it’s only a 40% increase over body weight. Benching 405 shouldn’t be that difficult. I hit 405 after 2 years of real lifting.[/quote]
I know, I was just commenting on the table in general. Small surprise that it comes from the “5x5, 3 times a week-till death!!!1111” crowd. Mehdi or whatever his name was would probably love it.
[quote]doubleh wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Er. Someone weighing 320+ only needs to bench 425 to be considered “elite” by the good Dr. ?
WHAT?
What’s the elite squat then, 495 at 320bw?
Someone weighing that much with such numbers would have to be something like 30+ % bf… That is super-weak.
The numbers for the very low weight-classes (both trained and untrained) are better… 242 and beyond are completely messed up though.
[/quote]
I agree, the further up you go in BW on the chart, the more skewed the #s get. Only a 6-lb difference between an elite deadlift for the under-275 lb class and the under-319 lb class? I would hope if one went from 270 to 310 or so, they would bring more than 6 lbs in the deadlift with them.
That being said, the numbers aren’t that far off for lighter BWs. Say for 215 lbs, elite would go 381 bench, 532 squat, and 586 dead. Those are pretty damn good numbers for 215.[/quote]
That’s what I said 
/edit
I walked on last fall to a division I-FCS school as a fullack. I was 18 and had bench pressed 435 before tryouts. That turned out to be the highest bench press on the whole team. A redshirt senior offensive guard had done 425, a junior linebacker did 415, and a senior fullback had 405. No, I don’t have a video of it. I don’t bring a video camera to the gym. I go to the gym to train. I didn’t expect to hit 405 in the spring of 2009 or 435 in the summer. I just spontaneously started ramping up the weights that day.
I’ll have a video soon
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Damn…according to that, I’m “elite”…which is bullshit. I know quite a few guys who can outdo me in the weight room at even less body weight.
What is with so many of these trainers acting like no one has the genetics for this?[/quote]
And I’m advanced (40 lbs below elite) after only 20 months training. This weightlifting thing sure is easy.
I’ve seen that chart before around the time I wasted my money on Starting Strength. It’s the biggest bullshit since the “Grecian Ideal” calculator.
Dr. Mel Siff devised a formula some time ago that took into account the best performances in the bench press by world class powerlifters back in the days where they did not use the bench shirts they have today. There are similar formulas out there and they probably are all better than the one posted above but I picked this one.
Using this formula and going from a 400lbs bench at a bodyweight of 220 lbs the numbers make a lot more sense imo:
bw bench
160 321
180 353
200 379
220 400
240 418
260 433
280 446
300 457
At higher weights the bench numbers still do not go up as much as one might expect, but then the best raw benches were around 660 and 675 for a very long time for lifters weighing well in excess of 300lbs while lifters weighing 198lbs could already bench over 560 lbs so the numbers add up.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
And I’m advanced (40 lbs below elite) after only 20 months training. This weightlifting thing sure is easy. [/quote]
A 308 lbs bench for 1 rep is already an advanced weight for a 220lbs lifter - don’t belittle yourself and be happy to have already achieved that much 
[quote]growth wrote:
Dr. Mel Siff devised a formula some time ago that took into account the best performances in the bench press by world class powerlifters back in the days where they did not use the bench shirts they have today. There are similar formulas out there and they probably are all better than the one posted above but I picked this one.
Using this formula and going from a 400lbs bench at a bodyweight of 220 lbs the numbers make a lot more sense imo:
bw bench
160 321
180 353
200 379
220 400
240 418
260 433
280 446
300 457
At higher weights the bench numbers still do not go up as much as one might expect, but then the best raw benches were around 660 and 675 for a very long time for lifters weighing well in excess of 300lbs while lifters weighing 198lbs could already bench over 560 lbs so the numbers add up.[/quote]
Lifters weighing 198 could already raw bench 560? Sure? That seems high for back then?
The numbers look much better for the 220 and under classes, but 240 is already too low again and the 300 : 457 is definitely too low.
I personally don’t put much stock into such formulas…
There’s also a difference between BBing and PLing here:
Bodybuilders at weightclasses below 202 are usually beginners unless they are REALLY short… And they put up weak numbers as a result.
There are far more powerlifters at such low weightclasses who possess great relative strength, mostly because they focus more on it.
For bbing, your numbers will usually become more and more respectable in a powerlifting sense as you get bigger… You’ll find quite a bunch of bodybuilders in the 220 and 242 classes who can do well at PL meets (or actually do well, and not just aliens like Hoornstra, but a lot of max-OT etc natties too), but almost no one below that safe very short pro’s.
At the higher weight-classes, 270+ (kind of depending on training style vs. “supplement” reliance too, and whether they still do the regular big three) you’re not too likely to find bodybuilders that would be considered weak for their weight, at least not good bodybuilders.
There the lines between bodybuilding and powerlifting are far more blurred compared to the lighter classes.
Plenty of people get by on fad-routines, staying super-lean year round, not eating enough etc below the 202… But to reach 220+ for natties of average height, you usually need to do things right… Weighing 250+ drug-free at 5’10 in the off-season without looking like shit usually requires significant amounts of strength in main exercises for every bodypart. And you don’t get there the way most train and eat…
Got 330 up today. Have 4 years and 362 days to gain 75 pounds =0
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
[quote]rcfromdb wrote:
It’s funny you guys are going at it about this in here, I just interviewed an 18 year old kid with some awesome lifts including a 405 bench…pics and stats included… Black Ox Training: Black Ox Spotlight: Brad
[/quote]
Where are the videos of him doing it? Or did you actually witness it? [/quote]
No videos but I see the kid lift all the time - he’s legit. That’s what happens when you go the the gym for a couple hours every day consistently for years.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Lifters weighing 198 could already raw bench 560? Sure? That seems high for back then?
[/quote]
Mike MacDonald benched 562.2 in the 198 lbs class in 1980 - incredible!
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
The numbers look much better for the 220 and under classes, but 240 is already too low again and the 300 : 457 is definitely too low.
I personally don’t put much stock into such formulas…
There’s also a difference between BBing and PLing here:
Bodybuilders at weightclasses below 202 are usually beginners unless they are REALLY short… And they put up weak numbers as a result.
There are far more powerlifters at such low weightclasses who possess great relative strength, mostly because they focus more on it.
For bbing, your numbers will usually become more and more respectable in a powerlifting sense as you get bigger… You’ll find quite a bunch of bodybuilders in the 220 and 242 classes who can do well at PL meets (or actually do well, and not just aliens like Hoornstra, but a lot of max-OT etc natties too), but almost no one below that safe very short pro’s.
At the higher weight-classes, 270+ (kind of depending on training style vs. “supplement” reliance too, and whether they still do the regular big three) you’re not too likely to find bodybuilders that would be considered weak for their weight, at least not good bodybuilders.
There the lines between bodybuilding and powerlifting are far more blurred compared to the lighter classes.
Plenty of people get by on fad-routines, staying super-lean year round, not eating enough etc below the 202… But to reach 220+ for natties of average height, you usually need to do things right… Weighing 250+ drug-free at 5’10 in the off-season without looking like shit usually requires significant amounts of strength in main exercises for every bodypart. And you don’t get there the way most train and eat…
[/quote]
I think the most interesting point here is being natural - indeed almost impossible to arrive at a lean 250 lbs and not be strong unless you are one of the rare freaks that weighs well over 200lbs before ever touching a weight.
In that regard natties probably even have an advantage over assisted bodybuilders as they need to work harder to get that big - putting on 60, 80 or even 100lbs of muscle just isn’t possible while staying (relatively) weak.
And you are right - no point being a bodybuilder and staying at weights that would be equivalent to the lower powerlifting weightclasses so 280 lbs bench at 140 lbs would only happen for very very short bodybuilders.