i didn’t bench 405 until i was in my 30’s… Now i can bench it for 12-15 reps. don’t know what that says about me or anyone else.
It says that you have a good work ethic, and is someone young lifters such as myself look up to.
@Schwarzfahrer
After about 1.5 years of training (aged 19) I was benching 330 for reps. When I was twenty, I benched 398 for reps. Since I had no spotter (homegym), nor a rack with safety pins, though, I never dared to determine my true 1RM. At that time, I hadn’t even used supplements. I had frequented a few German bb forums, back then, and had had called bullshit to my face a lot - apart from a few known vets. Most people are in stagnation without ever knowing it.
I’d daresay that - in all areas of life - most people usually slide into that stagnation phase pretty fast, after having gained a modicum of expertise in some activity / profession. I don’t think anyone’s exempt of it, it can happen to anyone. I, for one, had some pretty stagnant training years without ever realizing it. Luckily, after I made some serious gains.
@C_C
You’re right, but why do you get so riled up about it?
People are people.
Work ethic fluctuates. “Me First”, “Me Now”, whatever.
You, of all people, should know this best: you came here, shared your knowledge. Some people soaked it up and used it to their advantage, some didn’t. There’s always scrap and crap, why should people be an exception?
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Fuck! Just go in the gym, lock yourself in there, figure it out, and get it done. Seriously. There are no fucking rules to this stuff. There is no “best way”. There is only getting it done, and failing to get it done.
[/quote]
I strongly agree, but what if you prefer to train at home or have to train at home due to certain constraints?
That’s why I think the Internet is a pretty cool thing - IF used in conjunction with common sense and the willingness for TRIAL AND ERROR. I’ve rehabbed two very nagging and chronic injuries with info I got my hands on via the Internet. After having been kinda ‘deserted’ by fucking physicians.
Then there’s virtual comradeship. Now, I do have pretty cool friends, but none of them take lifting as seriously fatty old me.
Bottom line:
Internet, Barbell = simple and cool tools
Most people = too dumb to use simple tools
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Germany has got to be the worst country ever when it comes to strength training.
We have maybe 3 or 4 hardcore gyms in the entire country (ok, maybe more, but few and far in-between), not counting a few private PL gyms…
-People here start out/are RIDICULOUSLY WEAK.
-As you said, 100Kg on the bench is considered major weight here, while that’s basically total beginner level.
-Most don’t have a clue as to what is “strong”/achievable.
-Almost everyone gets shitfaced practically every day in my area. That doesn’t help you get any stronger.
-People’s diets are crap over here.
-They don’t have a fucking clue about programming.
-They don’t have a fucking clue about setup and technique, and I mean NONE.
-They live in their own small world and have no idea what’s going on outside of Germany. They all love to tell you how American supplements are laced with drugs and how every really strong guy is on gear though.
All experts when it comes to that stuff 
-Zero intensity and control over their musculature. No explosiveness either.
-Local “natural bodybuilders” are anything but bodybuilders in my opinion. I don’t know why every ass feels the need to call himself a bodybuilder nowadays, just because they lift (light) weights.
-The opinion of some local “advanced guys” at my last gym was that bodybuilding = something like 4-6 sets of 12-15+ reps on 4-5 exercises per bodypart, light weight for the pump. And yes, they were serious.
-Most here are constantly lean. That’s not how you get strong and big, at least not in most cases. Those guys stay almost exactly the same year after year.
Do yourself a favor: Find a proper gym or some training partner who is putting up major weight, even if he is using. It helps a lot to have someone who inspires you… Lift around people who are much stronger etc.
Someone with great genetic muscle-shape who weighs less than your dog and puts up baby numbers is not someone I’d listen to for training and diet advice for genetically ~average guys either.
[/quote]
This is all so very true - The main problem I had and that is still the same today is that I hardly ever see somebody who is training as a natural and also over 200 to 210lbs and pressing more than 275lbs for reps.
I have wasted a lot of my training time with the mindset that as nobody amounts to anything without special supplements I wouldn’t be able to do much either, especially due to the fact that I have never seen anybody that grew more than maybe 50 to 60lbs since starting out without eventually using.
Now that I am not having this limiting mindset anymore I am learning a lot about proper setup, technique and exercises and I am gaining muscular weight even though I am past my mid thirties and much more injury prone than 10 years ago. Too bad I am already past my best years with regard to growing into someone really big and strong, but I guess it is better late than never.
And very true on the matter of being lean - being strong and weighing 220, 230 or even 240lbs does not count if you do not have hot abzzzz - that’s probably the Nr.1 reason why almost nobody gets really big in Germany without using.
Hit 195kg (429 lbs) around July of last year while I was still 23.
[quote]IrishMarc wrote:
Hit 195kg (429 lbs) around July of last year while I was still 23.
[/quote]
I see your videos, but theres none of any lift 405 or more. Can you post one?
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
I strongly agree, but what if you prefer to train at home or have to train at home due to certain constraints?
That’s why I think the Internet is a pretty cool thing - IF used in conjunction with common sense and the willingness for TRIAL AND ERROR. I’ve rehabbed two very nagging and chronic injuries with info I got my hands on via the Internet. After having been kinda ‘deserted’ by fucking physicians.
Then there’s virtual comradeship. Now, I do have pretty cool friends, but none of them take lifting as seriously fatty old me.[/quote]
Well, but you had an actual problem (injuries) and you used the internet as an aid to figure out how to solve that problem. There’s a world of difference between that and what a lot of the people on these forums do. More than a few of the problems these guys have aren’t actual issues, it’s just stuff they get in their heads because they read too much crap, paralysis by analysis or whatever you want to call it.
But yea, I agree that the internet can be an amazing tool once you have an actual need for it and if you have developed at least some form of “bullshit filter”.
By the way, I read your journal a while ago and found it very inspiring. Since I can’t write in the cell I’ll say it here instead, great job and I hope you keep updating it.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Germany has got to be the worst country ever when it comes to strength training.
We have maybe 3 or 4 hardcore gyms in the entire country (ok, maybe more, but few and far in-between), not counting a few private PL gyms…
-People here start out/are RIDICULOUSLY WEAK.
-As you said, 100Kg on the bench is considered major weight here, while that’s basically total beginner level.
-Most don’t have a clue as to what is “strong”/achievable.
-Almost everyone gets shitfaced practically every day in my area. That doesn’t help you get any stronger.
-People’s diets are crap over here.
-They don’t have a fucking clue about programming.
-They don’t have a fucking clue about setup and technique, and I mean NONE.
-They live in their own small world and have no idea what’s going on outside of Germany. They all love to tell you how American supplements are laced with drugs and how every really strong guy is on gear though.
All experts when it comes to that stuff
-Zero intensity and control over their musculature. No explosiveness either.
-Local “natural bodybuilders” are anything but bodybuilders in my opinion. I don’t know why every ass feels the need to call himself a bodybuilder nowadays, just because they lift (light) weights.
-The opinion of some local “advanced guys” at my last gym was that bodybuilding = something like 4-6 sets of 12-15+ reps on 4-5 exercises per bodypart, light weight for the pump. And yes, they were serious.
-Most here are constantly lean. That’s not how you get strong and big, at least not in most cases. Those guys stay almost exactly the same year after year.
Do yourself a favor: Find a proper gym or some training partner who is putting up major weight, even if he is using. It helps a lot to have someone who inspires you… Lift around people who are much stronger etc.
Someone with great genetic muscle-shape who weighs less than your dog and puts up baby numbers is not someone I’d listen to for training and diet advice for genetically ~average guys either. [/quote]
lol I’ll be in Germany visiting my family after 18 long ass years so this seems kinda like an interesting situation. But I have to say, Australia for the most part is pretty much the same. I’ve been around the state and the only real gyms are the few in Melbourne and the one locally they use for oly lifting and for training our gridiron team. The remainder are simply filled with sub-standard bodybuilders who like you said, think repping 100kg on bp is godly strength loool.
LankyMofo:
You are right, I am being a little harsh. I didn’t mean to sound like people are pathetic for not doing as well as I did as quikly. I realize that there are not that many people who can hit 500 in less than 2 years, and I would not call anyone pathetic for not being capable of doing that. However, I think that 405 is reachable eventually for most.
As fast as I did? Unlikley for most. But if someone really wants it and is willing to do what it takes, they will get it sooner or later. Of course, I could be wrong. What set me off was seeing that 220 is considered a great acheivement by some and they question if it’s possible to get past that naturally. Seriously, that attitude is retarded.
sam_sneed:
Sorry no videos. I wish I would have recorded some back then. I stopped benching with the bar years ago. Now I use 1-arm lifts and dips to work my chest. Barbells mess up my shoulders. I’m getting pretty close to a 200 lb 1-arm bench right now. I’ll go get a video camera and record it when I do it if you wanna see that. Let me know.
[quote]nate dawg wrote:
LankyMofo:
You are right, I am being a little harsh. I didn’t mean to sound like people are pathetic for not doing as well as I did as quikly. I realize that there are not that many people who can hit 500 in less than 2 years, and I would not call anyone pathetic for not being capable of doing that. However, I think that 405 is reachable eventually for most. As fast as I did? Unlikley for most. But if someone really wants it and is willing to do what it takes, they will get it sooner or later. Of course, I could be wrong. What set me off was seeing that 220 is considered a great acheivement by some and they question if it’s possible to get past that naturally. Seriously, that attitude is retarded.[/quote]
While I don’t think 405 is attainable for most, the people here acting like it’s unattainable naturally are being pretty retarded.
[quote]sam_sneed:
Sorry no videos. I wish I would have recorded some back then. I stopped benching with the bar years ago. Now I use 1-arm lifts and dips to work my chest. Barbells mess up my shoulders. I’m getting pretty close to a 200 lb 1-arm bench right now. I’ll go get a video camera and record it when I do it if you wanna see that. Let me know. [/quote]
In the meantime, you have any pics you can throw up? You sound like a monster.
Found this on the interwebz - credited with creation is dr. Lon Kilgore.
Bench Press - Adult Men
Body Weight Un-trained Novice Intermediate Advanced Elite
114 84 107 130 179 222
123 91 116 142 194 242
132 98 125 153 208 260
148 109 140 172 234 291
165 119 152 187 255 319
181 128 164 201 275 343
198 135 173 213 289 362
220 142 183 225 306 381
242 149 190 232 316 395
275 153 196 239 325 407
319 156 199 244 333 416
320+ 159 204 248 340 425
not going to fix the chart. See your weight - to the right find your lift. I have confidence that you’ll figure it out. If you can’t, here is a link.
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
Found this on the interwebz - credited with creation is dr. Lon Kilgore.
Bench Press - Adult Men
Body Weight Un-trained Novice Intermediate Advanced Elite
114 84 107 130 179 222
123 91 116 142 194 242
132 98 125 153 208 260
148 109 140 172 234 291
165 119 152 187 255 319
181 128 164 201 275 343
198 135 173 213 289 362
220 142 183 225 306 381
242 149 190 232 316 395
275 153 196 239 325 407
319 156 199 244 333 416
320+ 159 204 248 340 425
not going to fix the chart. See your weight - to the right find your lift. I have confidence that you’ll figure it out. If you can’t, here is a link.
[/quote]
Er. Someone weighing 320+ only needs to bench 425 to be considered “elite” by the good Dr. ?
WHAT?
What’s the elite squat then, 495 at 320bw?
Someone weighing that much with such numbers would have to be something like 30+ % bf… That is super-weak.
The numbers for the very low weight-classes (both trained and untrained) are better… 242 and beyond are completely messed up though.
Ah, the squat numbers:
320+ 147 272 332 454 593 ← Honestly, anything under the “elite” number here would be impossibly weak for a 320+ lb guy… Even the advanced number is not all that great tbh, I’d go with 680+ or so there, 545+ for bench (shit, at 320 you may as well make that 585)
Deadlift:
320+ 183 340 388 512 617 ← No, really, that is just plain low. Plenty of guys doing that at ~220 at average height… Without dedicated powerlifting training.
Overhead Press
320+ 100 136 171 203 284 ← Again, embarassing. You will just look like some random, narrow-shouldered fat guy with numbers like that and weighing 320+.
Make that 100 lbs more to get a decent number…
Can’t comment on the Clean numbers, don’t know enough about Oly Lifting tbh.
But considering that the numbers for the other exercises are off, I’m guessing these are too low as well esp at the higher end?
320+ 106 196 239 327 384 ← Clean.
Now, if those numbers were for reps… But the article says they aren’t.
Also:
Elite
Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level.
No, I’m sorry, but no. Absolutely not. With no wraps, sleeves, belts or anything, 320+ elite numbers for the deadlift and bench press can be matched (repped for 4-6 even, esp. by the 242 guys) by plenty of guys at a reasonably lean 220 or not-so-lean 242 at ~5’10 who are not even at the top of their game yet… The elite 320+ squat is trickier though, esp. for the 220 guys… They likely won’t be able to rep it, but perhaps get it for one.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Ah, the squat numbers:
320+ 147 272 332 454 593 ← Honestly, anything under the “elite” number here would be impossibly weak for a 320+ lb guy… Even the advanced number is not all that great tbh, I’d go with 680+ or so there, 545+ for bench (shit, at 320 you may as well make that 585)
Deadlift:
320+ 183 340 388 512 617 ← No, really, that is just plain low. Plenty of guys doing that at ~220 at average height… Without dedicated powerlifting training.
Overhead Press
320+ 100 136 171 203 284 ← Again, embarassing. You will just look like some random, narrow-shouldered fat guy with numbers like that and weighing 320+.
Make that 100 lbs more to get a decent number…
Can’t comment on the Clean numbers, don’t know enough about Oly Lifting tbh.
But considering that the numbers for the other exercises are off, I’m guessing these are too low as well esp at the higher end?
320+ 106 196 239 327 384 ← Clean.
Now, if those numbers were for reps… But the article says they aren’t.
Also:
Elite
Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level.
No, I’m sorry, but no. Absolutely not. With no wraps, sleeves, belts or anything, 320+ elite numbers for the deadlift and bench press can be matched (repped for 4-6 even, esp. by the 242 guys) by plenty of guys at a reasonably lean 220 or not-so-lean 242 at ~5’10 who are not even at the top of their game yet… The elite 320+ squat is trickier though, esp. for the 220 guys… They likely won’t be able to rep it, but perhaps get it for one.
[/quote]
I agree with you, while none of those elite numbers are something to completely turn your nose up at, they are very low to be considered better than 99% of the training population.
To add to that, this chart and these standards were originally published in Rippetoe’s and Kilgore’s “Practical Programing.”
Throughout that book they talk about how impossible it is to get to elite. There is sections devoted to how a beginner, intermediate, and advanced person should train but elite is this mythical monster they didn’t dare touch on.
All it really said about elite is that once you reach that level you will only be able to super compensate once or twice a year and you must constantly walk on the paper thin line between overtraining and not doing enough, how it is very scientific and one must always do exactly the right things always for 5 pounds to be added to your squat in a year.
The book was interesting, wrong on a lot of points, but it is a decent read for a beginner who knows nothing. I read it when I first got into training, looking at it now a lot of their methods are a little silly. Their writings are completely geared toward the “hardcore people only do compound lifts because its hardcore,” never doing anything but 5x5 for sets and reps, and biceps are ghey crowds.
[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Ah, the squat numbers:
320+ 147 272 332 454 593 ← Honestly, anything under the “elite” number here would be impossibly weak for a 320+ lb guy… Even the advanced number is not all that great tbh, I’d go with 680+ or so there, 545+ for bench (shit, at 320 you may as well make that 585)
Deadlift:
320+ 183 340 388 512 617 ← No, really, that is just plain low. Plenty of guys doing that at ~220 at average height… Without dedicated powerlifting training.
Overhead Press
320+ 100 136 171 203 284 ← Again, embarassing. You will just look like some random, narrow-shouldered fat guy with numbers like that and weighing 320+.
Make that 100 lbs more to get a decent number…
Can’t comment on the Clean numbers, don’t know enough about Oly Lifting tbh.
But considering that the numbers for the other exercises are off, I’m guessing these are too low as well esp at the higher end?
320+ 106 196 239 327 384 ← Clean.
Now, if those numbers were for reps… But the article says they aren’t.
Also:
Elite
Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level.
No, I’m sorry, but no. Absolutely not. With no wraps, sleeves, belts or anything, 320+ elite numbers for the deadlift and bench press can be matched (repped for 4-6 even, esp. by the 242 guys) by plenty of guys at a reasonably lean 220 or not-so-lean 242 at ~5’10 who are not even at the top of their game yet… The elite 320+ squat is trickier though, esp. for the 220 guys… They likely won’t be able to rep it, but perhaps get it for one.
[/quote]
I agree with you, while none of those elite numbers are something to completely turn your nose up at, they are very low to be considered better than 99% of the training population.
To add to that, this chart and these standards were originally published in Rippetoe’s and Kilgore’s “Practical Programing.”
Throughout that book they talk about how impossible it is to get to elite. There is sections devoted to how a beginner, intermediate, and advanced person should train but elite is this mythical monster they didn’t dare touch on.
All it really said about elite is that once you reach that level you will only be able to super compensate once or twice a year and you must constantly walk on the paper thin line between overtraining and not doing enough, how it is very scientific and one must always do exactly the right things always for 5 pounds to be added to your squat in a year.
The book was interesting, wrong on a lot of points, but it is a decent read for a beginner who knows nothing. I read it when I first got into training, looking at it now a lot of their methods are a little silly. Their writings are completely geared toward the “hardcore people only do compound lifts because its hardcore,” never doing anything but 5x5 for sets and reps, and biceps are ghey crowds.[/quote]
Damn…according to that, I’m “elite”…which is bullshit. I know quite a few guys who can outdo me in the weight room at even less body weight.
What is with so many of these trainers acting like no one has the genetics for this?
I’m sorry,
My point was that with these elite lifts it’s only a 40% increase over body weight. Benching 405 shouldn’t be that difficult. I hit 405 after 2 years of real lifting.
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
Found this on the interwebz - credited with creation is dr. Lon Kilgore.
Bench Press - Adult Men
Body Weight Un-trained Novice Intermediate Advanced Elite
114 84 107 130 179 222
123 91 116 142 194 242
132 98 125 153 208 260
148 109 140 172 234 291
165 119 152 187 255 319
181 128 164 201 275 343
198 135 173 213 289 362
220 142 183 225 306 381
242 149 190 232 316 395
275 153 196 239 325 407
319 156 199 244 333 416
320+ 159 204 248 340 425
not going to fix the chart. See your weight - to the right find your lift. I have confidence that you’ll figure it out. If you can’t, here is a link.
[/quote]
Gaining 99 lbs of weight (from 220 to 319) in order to bench 35 lbs (from 381 to 416) more?
Sounds pretty retarded to me - are those additional 99 lbs 9 lbs muscle and 90 lbs fat?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Ah, the squat numbers:
320+ 147 272 332 454 593 ← Honestly, anything under the “elite” number here would be impossibly weak for a 320+ lb guy… Even the advanced number is not all that great tbh, I’d go with 680+ or so there, 545+ for bench (shit, at 320 you may as well make that 585)
Deadlift:
320+ 183 340 388 512 617 ← No, really, that is just plain low. Plenty of guys doing that at ~220 at average height… Without dedicated powerlifting training.
Overhead Press
320+ 100 136 171 203 284 ← Again, embarassing. You will just look like some random, narrow-shouldered fat guy with numbers like that and weighing 320+.
Make that 100 lbs more to get a decent number…
Can’t comment on the Clean numbers, don’t know enough about Oly Lifting tbh.
But considering that the numbers for the other exercises are off, I’m guessing these are too low as well esp at the higher end?
320+ 106 196 239 327 384 ← Clean.
Now, if those numbers were for reps… But the article says they aren’t.
Also:
Elite
Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level.
No, I’m sorry, but no. Absolutely not. With no wraps, sleeves, belts or anything, 320+ elite numbers for the deadlift and bench press can be matched (repped for 4-6 even, esp. by the 242 guys) by plenty of guys at a reasonably lean 220 or not-so-lean 242 at ~5’10 who are not even at the top of their game yet… The elite 320+ squat is trickier though, esp. for the 220 guys… They likely won’t be able to rep it, but perhaps get it for one.
[/quote]
I agree with you, while none of those elite numbers are something to completely turn your nose up at, they are very low to be considered better than 99% of the training population.
To add to that, this chart and these standards were originally published in Rippetoe’s and Kilgore’s “Practical Programing.”
Throughout that book they talk about how impossible it is to get to elite. There is sections devoted to how a beginner, intermediate, and advanced person should train but elite is this mythical monster they didn’t dare touch on.
All it really said about elite is that once you reach that level you will only be able to super compensate once or twice a year and you must constantly walk on the paper thin line between overtraining and not doing enough, how it is very scientific and one must always do exactly the right things always for 5 pounds to be added to your squat in a year.
The book was interesting, wrong on a lot of points, but it is a decent read for a beginner who knows nothing. I read it when I first got into training, looking at it now a lot of their methods are a little silly. Their writings are completely geared toward the “hardcore people only do compound lifts because its hardcore,” never doing anything but 5x5 for sets and reps, and biceps are ghey crowds.[/quote]
Damn…according to that, I’m “elite”…which is bullshit. I know quite a few guys who can outdo me in the weight room at even less body weight.
What is with so many of these trainers acting like no one has the genetics for this?[/quote]
Rip was a big crossfit guy, maybe these are going off of his experience training crossfit people, that would explain the low numbers. I have been training seriously for less than a year and a half and I am a few pounds away from being advanced on most of those for 242 (although I am 252).
If I don’t exceed all of those elite numbers within the next few years I will be very frustrated and “elite” is supposed to be this upper echelon of the strength community. Meat greatly exceeds all of the elite numbers for his class and he is just a normal dude who trains hard, its not like he is an international competitor. (Much love for Meat)
I work hard…I probably going to hit 405 in a few weeks. Bugaysha is 21 and he hit 405. Who cares? Fuck charts.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Er. Someone weighing 320+ only needs to bench 425 to be considered “elite” by the good Dr. ?
WHAT?
What’s the elite squat then, 495 at 320bw?
Someone weighing that much with such numbers would have to be something like 30+ % bf… That is super-weak.
The numbers for the very low weight-classes (both trained and untrained) are better… 242 and beyond are completely messed up though.
[/quote]
I agree, the further up you go in BW on the chart, the more skewed the #s get. Only a 6-lb difference between an elite deadlift for the under-275 lb class and the under-319 lb class? I would hope if one went from 270 to 310 or so, they would bring more than 6 lbs in the deadlift with them.
That being said, the numbers aren’t that far off for lighter BWs. Say for 215 lbs, elite would go 381 bench, 532 squat, and 586 dead. Those are pretty damn good numbers for 215.