California Unemployment Rate Hits 12.5%

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

Because, at the end of the day, and where it really counts, you’ve imbibed the PC koolaid. You stand with the leftists on the issues that really matter.

For instance, you spew the whole “nature vs nurture” false dichotomy which liberals are so keen on. You’re less concerned with identifying the problem and fixing it than trying to “justify” it with sociological explanations. Typical left wing mindset. [/quote]

Well, well - if it isn’t Al Shades, the small, sniveling Northeastern twerp who cried himself to sleep every night because he isn’t a strapping white Midwestern farm boy.

Surely if your race theories were true, you’d be bigger, smarter, and better? Trust me, Al - your existence is the perfect factual proof there is no such thing as “white supremacy”, and if there was, you’d be dragging down the score for whites so bad you’d be excommuicated from your own race.

[quote]Indeed, he’s showing his true colors. You always have to be careful of these types who claim to be “conservative anti-racists” or “anti-fascists”. They are natural bed fellows of the left. They are nominally conservative on some issues but they line right up with the PC brigades on the things that really matter.

Any self-proclaimed “conservative” who is more concerned about appearing “anti-fascist” or “anti-racist” than he is about being conservative is just a closet liberal waiting for his opportunity to jump ship. The left always screams fascism whenever real conservative or even libertarian proposals are aired.

Politically correct neocons like thunderbolt are the “useful idiots” of today’s right.[/quote]

Keep talking, Al. You are an admitted racist and fascist, and we all get it - because no one fears you, respects you, or otherwise is impressed with you, you keep up this therapeutic ideology to fill that big hole.

There is nothing “conservative” or “libertarian” about your goofball theories. You are a laughinstock, and aren’t you overdue for a new screen name to bury your shame and star over?

Always good for a laugh.

[PRCalDude]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:

So exactly why did you disagree so vehemently with, and call racist, the statement “I hope you realize that the [contributed] intellectual capital of the majority of new immigrants to California is exactly zero.”

???

I didn’t. Here is what was said:

PRCalDude wrote:

That’s a huge part of California’s problem: a middle class was replaced demographically with a third-world welfare dependent peasant class [u]with no intellectual abilities - at least none proven so far.[/u]
[/quote]

Yes, intellectual abilities are a combination of nature and nurture. I sincerely hope that those deficiencies I alluded to earlier are fixable for the sake of my country. The children of these immigrants are not getting into the UC, are scoring poorly on SATs on average, and are graduating high school at lower rates than whites, blacks, and asians.

Even if the academic achievement gap is entirely nurture, this still doesn’t bode well for the country in general, as an achievement gap has persisted between whites and blacks in this country and we’ve been unable to close it with billions spent.

I replied, in a rather plain vanilla fashion:

Sorry, PRC - while I recognize the illegal immigrant problem and have my own soapbox about lack of assimilation and how we cannot permit the problem to continue, etc., I won’t join up on an “immigrants as subhuman parasites” theme.

The “subhuman parasites” them is either a) your projection or b) your straw man.

I merely linked a Robert Rector report showing that they take in 3 tax dollars for every dollar they put into the system. The “low-skilled immigrants” coming to this country are overwhelmingly Mexican.

I suppose this makes them subhuman parasites in your mind. That’s your term, not mine, and I’m going to hang it around your neck.

It’s pretty clear to me that your just another leftist. Leftists always yell “Racism!” when they’re losing an argument with a conservative.

[PRCalDude]

[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
They well have buried cognitive tendencies that are suppressed by an anti-intellectual culture. Who knows? The fact is that they haven’t proven themselves capable of performing academically in this state or any other.
FLO-RID-A (Where Latinos perform as well, or better than ‘Whites’) ~&~ PUERTO RICO (Where ALL the professionals are LATINOS)

Me and PR Cal have talked about illegal immigration before, he seemed agreeable before. However, in this thread is tirades are bordering on the neurotic if not psychotic.

[/quote]

Will you come off it? If I don’t specifically state “Mexicans” every time I use the term “Hispanic,” you get all bent out of shape.

Remember when you said we should gas them to death on another thread? And you’re telling me I’m psychotic?

The fact is that Cubans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, etc, all get lumped into the category “Hispanic,” as you well know and as we’ve discussed before. I sort of feel like you just want to get indignant about this with me even though you and I both know that the government’s categorization is unfair. Protest them, not me.

For crying out loud, your own Senator Mel Martinez has been falling all over himself to win over “Hispanics” (Mexicans) with his incessant pandering and support of amnesty.

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

Yes, intellectual abilities are a combination of nature and nurture. I sincerely hope that those deficiencies I alluded to earlier are fixable for the sake of my country. The children of these immigrants are not getting into the UC, are scoring poorly on SATs on average, and are graduating high school at lower rates than whites, blacks, and asians.

Even if the academic achievement gap is entirely nurture, this still doesn’t bode well for the country in general, as an achievement gap has persisted between whites and blacks in this country and we’ve been unable to close it with billions spent.[/quote]

And I don’t disagree with any of that - even if it is entirely “nurture”, we have huge problems that need to be fixed, because the culture is “nurturing” too many of the wrong things.

See what happens when you slow down and read what I write?

The “subhuman parasites” them is either a) your projection or b) your straw man.

You said they were “dependent” - ergo, “parasite”.

You said they lacked “intellectual ability” - ergo, “subhuman”.

I merely linked a Robert Rector report showing that they take in 3 tax dollars for every dollar they put into the system. The “low-skilled immigrants” coming to this country are overwhelmingly Mexican.

Congratulations on using the internet. More important to your point - so what?

I suppose this makes them subhuman parasites in your mind. That’s your term, not mine, and I’m going to hang it around your neck.

Dependent folks who ain’t got no intellectual abilities - if that doesn’t qualify as “subhuman parasites” by way of proxy, sounds like English isn’t your first language either.

It’s pretty clear to me that your just another leftist. Leftists always yell “Racism!” when they’re losing an argument with a conservative.

Of course I am a leftist - I support redistribution of income, serial apologies and handouts based on identify politics rather than individual responsibility, and destruction of the capitalist system.

Oh wait, no I don’t. I merely said that I refuse to say that Hispanics are racially inferior to any other ethnic group and that your statement insinuating that they were was “disgusting”. That ain’t “leftism” by ant stretch of a political definition.

And, you know and I know I haven’t been “losing any argument” to you. Hell, we haven’t even been arguing much at all - you spent most all of your time attacking false positions I never even had.

So, clear the air once and for all, tough guy - do you think that Hispanics are racially inferior to other races? Are they are a little dumber, incapable of reaching the heights of whites in science or arts, even if given the opportunity?

If not, should be super-easy to say so. If I read your statement incorrectly, then no problem, tell me I was wrong and say that you don’t think that Hispanics are racially inferior.

[3IdSpetsnaz]

Many of the “Latino” community here don’t even associate with their European side. They actually despise it, saying that Europeans raped themselves into their blood. They associate themselves as Native American Indians, who want their land back. Their claims of having better inventions, technology, medicine, education, you name it, who were superior before the European invaders arrived.

It’s absolutely shameful really. Even in Spain, more and more, the term ‘Latino’ is being associated with Mestizo.

[Bill_Roberts]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
As for your use of expressions such as stating that the person you are arguing with “vomited up” such-and-such statements, this just strikes me as being ad-hominem and I take it as further evidence of emotion-based reaction, rather than actually there being anything factually wrong that you are objecting to for factual reasons.

Well, it’s not ad hominem - and there seems to be great confusion as to what that term means, but I digress - and I frankly am not terribly concerned. I don’t suffer fools gladly, and if my added “color” offends you, so be it.[/quote]

You don’t think painting a picture of your debate opponent as “vomiting up” what he is saying or your saying (with reference to those disagreeing with you) that you don’t suffer “fools” gladly comprise ad hominem approaches?

And you say that you think there’s a problem that others don’t understand the term?

Rather clearly such methods attempt to disparage what the person is saying by creating a negative picture of him personally.

Anyway, the post you created the appearance (to me) of being bent out of shape over what was in fact correct with regard to what the situation is, and did not have the racist element that you claimed. To me, the “that’s racist” response appeared reflexive. If it was thought out, it’s difficult to see how as it doesn’t make sense.

[PRCalDude]

[quote]And I don’t disagree with any of that - even if it is entirely “nurture”, we have huge problems that need to be fixed, because the culture is “nurturing” too many of the wrong things.

See what happens when you slow down and read what I write? [/quote]

I’ve said that before. I’ve always maintained this. You ASS-umed I said something else when I posited that the immigrants coming here are “contributing zero intellectual capital” - a fact you’ve still not disproven. When you read that sentence of mind, it was processed in your Leftist brain into, “PRCalDude believes Mexicans to be subhuman parasites that are genetically stupider than white people.”

You said they were “dependent” - ergo, “parasite”.

“Dependent” was my term. Again, read the Rector report and stop slinging ad hominems. “Parasite” is your projection onto me.

You said they lacked “intellectual ability” - ergo, “subhuman”.

More evidence of what I’ve been saying. Do you honestly believe that I think people who “lack intellectual ability” are “subhuman?” What gives you the right to sling this crap around? Have you ever met my brother, who has a severe learning disability?

Dependent folks who ain’t got no intellectual abilities - if that doesn’t qualify as “subhuman parasites” by way of proxy, sounds like English isn’t your first language either.

Keep trying. Now you’re insulting my writing ability for some reason. You’d be better off just apologizing.

Congratulations on using the internet. More important to your point - so what?[/quote]

It pains me to have to connect this dot for you. California has been demographically transformed over the past 30 years. It is now 60% Mexican and has a huge low-skilled immigrant population. Do you see how this fact might affect the state budget?

It affects it even more when you realize that these immigrants also have a mean birth-rate of 4 children (school budgets affect state budgets) and a crime rate at 3 times the national average (prison budget affects the state budget). Also, when they want medical care, they go to the ER. Who pays for that? Medi-Cal, which comes from … the state budget.

On top of that, as Telles’ and Ortiz’ showed in the book you haven’t read yet, their children are never making it into the middle class (for reasons I alluded to earlier) where the real tax burden hits. Hell, it works out great for them.

And I haven’t even gotten into their role in the mortgage meltdown yet.

[quote]So, clear the air once and for all, tough guy - do you think that Hispanics are racially inferior to other races? Are they are a little dumber, incapable of reaching the heights of whites in science or arts, even if given the opportunity?

Grow up. Expand out of your pathetic leftist frame. I’m not even going to dignify these projections and assumptions with a response.

You accused me of going on a tirade. Wow.

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

You don’t think painting a picture of your debate opponent as “vomiting up” what he is saying or your saying (with reference to those disagreeing with you) that you don’t suffer “fools” gladly comprise ad hominem approaches?[/quote]

Nope. They might be insults - mean, nasty, even impolite insults - they are not ad hominems.

And you say that you think there’s a problem that others don’t understand the term?

An ad hominem is a fallacy when:

-Opponent argues A
-You say A is wrong because Opponent is an [insult]

It is not an ad hominem when:

-Opponent argues A
-You refute A with fully legitimate counterarguments and gratuitously tack on an [insult] in addition to the counterargument

Rather clearly such methods attempt to disparage what the person is saying by creating a negative picture of him personally.

See above. There isn’t a single argument PRC presented that I didn’t directly address. And to be frank, after PRC’s irresponsible puppet show filled with straw men and misrepresentations, a little disparaging is expected.

Anyway, the post you created the appearance (to me) of being bent out of shape over what was in fact correct with regard to what the situation is, and did not have the racist element that you claimed. To me, the “that’s racist” response appeared reflexive. If it was thought out, it’s difficult to see how as it doesn’t make sense.

Then we continue to disagree on that issue, and more the point - I didn’t leap to an accusation that PRC was “a racist!”. Again, I said I operate by no such assumption and raised the idea that I didn’t care for PRC’s insinuation. If I read him wrong, no problem - he could easily correct me. I didn’t “reflexively” lambast him - I said I didn’t like his insinuation.

I didn’t get “bent out of shape” over this issue, I merely confirmed I wasn’t on board with heading down that road if PRC was, in fact, headed there. If he wasn’t, let him say so.

[PRCalDude]

[quote]It is not an ad hominem when:

-Opponent argues A
-You refute A with fully legitimate counterarguments and gratuitously tack on an [insult] in addition to the counterargument [/quote]

Right. So where was the refutation of my original statements - not what you think I said, or what you attributed to me, but what I actually said?

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

I’ve said that before. I’ve always maintained this. You ASS-umed I said something else when I posited that the immigrants coming here are “contributing zero intellectual capital” - a fact you’ve still not disproven.[/quote]

I don’t need to “disprove” it because, and I will type this slow, I am not disagreeing or disputing it.

When you read that sentence of mind, it was processed in your Leftist brain into, “PRCalDude believes Mexicans to be subhuman parasites that are genetically stupider than white people.”

You said they had no “intellectual ability” - reads pretty clearly to me. If I was wrong, no problem - then why not just say I misread your sentence from the outset and that you don’t believe that?

“Dependent” was my term. Again, read the Rector report and stop slinging ad hominems. “Parasite” is your projection onto me.

Now, the delicious irony is that you have set a new record for straw men fallacies and now, suddenly, you are interested in “projections”.

Let’s have a look:

[i]“parasite” - n. Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return.[/i]

Now, does this describe your opinion of Mexicans in CA? Or not? Yes or no?

More evidence of what I’ve been saying. Do you honestly believe that I think people who “lack intellectual ability” are “subhuman?” What gives you the right to sling this crap around? Have you ever met my brother, who has a severe learning disability?

Well, for starters, do you think these people “lack intellectual ability”? Maybe you don’t think of them as “subhuman”, but do you think they - meaing Hispanics or Mexicans - lack inherent intellectual ability?

Keep trying. Now you’re insulting my writing ability for some reason. You’d be better off just apologizing.

No, I am defending my choice of words.

[quote]It pains me to have to connect this dot for you. California has been demographically transformed over the past 30 years. It is now 60% Mexican and has a huge low-skilled immigrant population.

Do you see how this fact might affect the state budget? It affects it even more when you realize that these immigrants also have a mean birth-rate of 4 children (school budgets affect state budgets) and a crime rate at 3 times the national average (prison budget affects the state budget). Also, when they want medical care, they go to the ER. Who pays for that? Medi-Cal, which comes from … the state budget.

On top of that, as Telles’ and Ortiz’ showed in the book you haven’t read yet, their children are never making it into the middle class (for reasons I alluded to earlier) where the real tax burden hits. Hell, it works out great for them. [/quote]

It’s as if you simply can’t read - I never disputed any of this. Why do you keep insisting on presenting an argument that isn’t in dispute?

The question is not whether this demographic of people causes problems for CA - everyone in the damn room agrees. For God’s sake, get this through your head.

The question is: can any of this behavior be corrected? It if it is nurture, then maybe. If it is nature - and these folks are just “naturally” problematic and anti-social in all these ways - then the answer is no, no amount of policy or culture-shift will fix them.

My question to you remains: which is it?

[quote]Grow up. Expand out of your pathetic leftist frame. I’m not even going to dignify these projections and assumptions with a response.

You accused me of going on a tirade. Wow. [/quote]

Let’s see - you are apoplectic at the idea that someone says you may think that Mexicans are inherently inferior, but when given the chance to defend against that incorrect accusation t in no uncertain terms, you…

…slink away, refusing to answer the question, muttering some irrelevant nonsense about me being a “leftist”.

If someone called me a racist, I’d correct their misunderstaning in nothing short of the next post to them. You still won’t answer the question.

So, do you or don’t you think so? Grow a sack and answer the question.

[PRCalDude]

^^^

It’s been real TB23. I’ve noticed you’ve been having slap-fights with quite a few other commenters around here besides me.

Not immune to this myself, I’ll chalk it up to the bad economy and/or your having a bad week/month.

Either way, you were probably right when you said that you don’t know why you even check PWI anymore. There are too few here like yourself edumacate the rest of us on our bigotry and to correct our misunderstandings of things we see on a daily basis.

If only I could see California the way you see it. Alas, I lack the intellect.

Do let me know how things are going from New Hampshire, or the Hamptons - or wherever it is true conservatives like yourself live - from time to time, won’t you?

[MaximusB]

Where are you located Thunderbolt? I think your views would be different if you were here in California.

[spyoptic]

Anybody wanna guess when the riots will start?

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Where are you located Thunderbolt? I think your views would be different if you were here in California. [/quote]

What views exactly? Tell me, Maximus - what specific views of mine that I have espoused here in this thread would be different if I lived in CA?

[Nominal_Prospect]

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
You talk funny. Are you some kind of foreigner? [/quote]

Yes. I reside in the States but I’m European by birth and manner.

Thunderbolt23: All invective, no substance, as usual.

Your post demonstrates that you aren’t capable or willing to hold an intelligent conversation with someone whose views fall outside the political mainstream. I’ve observed this phenomenon before among neocons and rabid leftists.

You simply can’t handle the fact that there are schools of thought which repudiate the modern, liberal egalitarian nonsense and postulate significant differences between groups of people on the basis of race, gender, and other innate characteristics.

Your ingrained leftist thought processes prevent you from considering such issues rationally. That’s why you and others who share your illness are always looking for an “explanation” to mitigate the obvious conclusions that can be drawn from facts self-evident in such cases.

You are quick to leap to assumptions and deride me for views which I’ve never expressed, much less in this thread. I find your ad hominem barbs to be more cowardly than insulting. Each time you address me, it’s the same old game. You take some limited information that you have about me and do your best to turn me into a villain and/or abject failure of unbelievable proportions. Truly, how childish.

I gather that you would have me live in perpetual regret and shame over the fact that I once opined it would have been better to be raised in a Midwestern rural setting than in a large city, but I find no reason to feel the slightest bit of shame over such an innocent and candid remark.

Your personality is such that I’m sure you wouldn’t hesitate to insult me over my choice of favorite color, were I to reveal it. You are living in your own cartoon fantasy land and you’ve chosen to make me one of the “bad guys” in that fantasy. All I need is a cape and a costume. You Americans and your black & white, comic book interpretation of the world.

“Bad Nazi is Bad”.

[MaximusB]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
MaximusB wrote:

Where are you located Thunderbolt? I think your views would be different if you were here in California.

What views exactly? Tell me, Maximus - what specific views of mine that I have espoused here in this thread would be different if I lived in CA?

[/quote]

Oh I don’t know, how about SEEING WITH YOUR OWN EYES. Basing your opinion on what you see rather than what you read or hear, and it’s a Greek tragedy that that needed to be explained.

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

“Bad Nazi is Bad”.[/quote]

Sorry, Al Shades. There is nothing egalitarian about the realm of ideas - some ideas are just plain stupid and bad, and should not be entertained. The same is true of credibility of the opponent.

Ironically, it is you begging for “egalitarianism” - you desperately want your discredited and idiotic ideas to be taken seriously at the table of legitimate ideas, despite the fact that they deserve no such treatment. You want “equal treatment” for your ideas even as they are laughable.

No, Al, I refuse to engage with you on a substantive level precisely because I am not egalitarian - I don’t waste time with your worthless ideas supporting fascism, white supremacy, and general sniveling idiocy and will instead entertain ideas that have value. That is how the market for ideas works - and you are a bad investment (as I am sure your parents have discovered).

Some ideas are better than others, and no one is under any obligation to entertain bad ideas, and yours are certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

So, stop trying to beg your way into the world of ideas claiming that your ideas “deserve an equal shot!” - and go shame yourself for being the egalitarian you claim to despise.

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Oh I don’t know, how about SEEING WITH YOUR OWN EYES. Basing your opinion on what you see rather than what you read or hear, and it’s a Greek tragedy that that needed to be explained. [/quote]

Answer the question. What view specifically?

What view do I have that would be changed by living in CA? That illegal immigration is having a terrible effect on CA? Because I already believe that.

So, tell me - which view?

[MaximusB]

The magnitude of impact that illegal immigration has had on California, that is the view. California has between 20-25% of the entire illegal alien population, this is assuming that population is between 12-15 million people. What you might see or read about in your state is nothing remotely close to what we deal with here.

[Headhunter]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
the schools, the intellectual capital of people moving there and wanting to be there - you have to actively try to sandbag a state blessed with so many advantages.

I hope you realize that the intellectual capital of the majority of new immigrants to California is exactly zero. That’s a huge part of California’s problem: a middle class was replaced demographically with a third-world welfare dependent peasant class with no intellectual abilities - at least none proven so far.

Oh well, throw more money at them. [/quote]

They can vote. That’s why they were brought in.