That’s right, Leftists - I have been branded a “leftist” in these forums. The reason? Despite my “body of work” since 2003 on PWI damning the Left and otherwise being a conservative, I am not of “the Right” for the most unforgivable of political and social sins on that side of the fence, apparently.
So, I’ll need some help, in the same manner any wayward political orphan needs it - I need the Leftist Starter Kit.
Ideas?
I’ll need a Che Guevara t-shirt for sure, and if anyone can burn me some Rage Against the Machine CDs, I’d greatly appreciate not having to pay the $12 to those capitalist-corporatist whores on iTunes.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
That’s right, Leftists - I have been branded a “leftist” in these forums. The reason? Despite my “body of work” since 2003 on PWI damning the Left and otherwise being a conservative, I am not of “the Right” for the most unforgivable of political and social sins on that side of the fence, apparently.
So, I’ll need some help, in the same manner any wayward political orphan needs it - I need the Leftist Starter Kit.
Ideas?
I’ll need a Che Guevara t-shirt for sure, and if anyone can burn me some Rage Against the Machine CDs, I’d greatly appreciate not having to pay the $12 to those capitalist-corporatist whores on iTunes.
What else? [/quote]
So what is this unforgivable sin you have committed?
I am guessing it’s because he responded forcefully with a “that’s racist” (paraphrase) type response upon it being said that, demographically, illegal aliens weren’t contributing intellectual capital to the state of California and that – again demographically, not speaking of every individual – they were describable as a third-world welfare dependent peasant class with “no” intellectual abilities.
EDIT: Rather than rely on the paraphrase, the specific reply was “I won’t join up on an ‘immigrants as subhuman parasites’ theme. This obsession linked a little too closely to race is, well, in a word, disgusting.”
Note, no one but Thunderbolt himself had said “subhuman” or brought in race, let alone obsessed on it.
As the left is known for playing the race card this way, he appeared leftist in this.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I am guessing it’s because he screamed “you’re a racist” upon it being said that, demographically, illegal aliens weren’t contributing intellectual capital to the state of California and that overall they were not intellectuals, or something approximately like that.[/quote]
I think he said, racist, more to the tune of. Latinos are genetically inferior and unintelligent allusion.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I am guessing it’s because he responded forcefully with a “that’s racist” (paraphrase) type response upon it being said that, demographically, illegal aliens weren’t contributing intellectual capital to the state of California and that – again demographically, not speaking of every individual – they were describable as a third-world welfare dependent peasant class with “no” intellectual abilities.
EDIT: Rather than rely on the paraphrase, the specific reply was “I won’t join up on an ‘immigrants as subhuman parasites’ theme. This obsession linked a little too closely to race is, well, in a word, disgusting.”
Note, no one but Thunderbolt himself had said “subhuman” or brought in race, let alone obsessed on it.
As the left is known for playing the race card this way, he appeared leftist in this.
[/quote]
You’re getting it just as wrong here as you did in the other thread, natch - but most importantly, there was no “race card” to play for the most basic reason that I was advancing no argument that needed to play it. I noted that the comment had the stink of a racial overtone - I never attacked any of the arguments (illegal immigrants are dreadfully harmful to CA, etc.), so there was no “race card” to be played by making the “accusation”.
It was like always felt like I was supposed to like conservatives, but something was always a little different when I was alone with conservatives. I wanted to like conservatives, realy I did, but I have known since high school that something wasn’t right. Then, I went to this party with leftists, and leftists were all hanging with other leftists, and it all felt so…natural.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
I am guessing it’s because he responded forcefully with a “that’s racist” (paraphrase) type response upon it being said that, demographically, illegal aliens weren’t contributing intellectual capital to the state of California and that – again demographically, not speaking of every individual – they were describable as a third-world welfare dependent peasant class with “no” intellectual abilities.
EDIT: Rather than rely on the paraphrase, the specific reply was “I won’t join up on an ‘immigrants as subhuman parasites’ theme. This obsession linked a little too closely to race is, well, in a word, disgusting.”
Note, no one but Thunderbolt himself had said “subhuman” or brought in race, let alone obsessed on it.
As the left is known for playing the race card this way, he appeared leftist in this.
You’re getting it just as wrong here as you did in the other thread, natch - but most importantly, there was no “race card” to play for the most basic reason that I was advancing no argument that needed to play it. I noted that the comment had the stink of a racial overtone - I never attacked any of the arguments (illegal immigrants are dreadfully harmful to CA, etc.), so there was no “race card” to be played by making the “accusation”.
Bill, you disappoint.[/quote]
Precisely how YOU interjecting an assertion of “stink of racial overtone” (to use your new phrase for the lens through which you viewed the quoted statements) or you responding with your original quoted reply does not comprise “playing the race card” is something that I suspect only you can understand.
Be disappointed all you want that others see your labeling of those statements as you did, and are now doing, as being playing the race card.
You didn’t have facts to contradict the post with, such as Well actually such-and-such percentage of illegal aliens are working in white-collar and scientific or engineering jobs and the like, or what have you.
No, problem is, the post was factual (except for the word “no” being hyperbole.)
Your only way to criticize what you obviously hated to read – had quite the emotional response to given various things you’ve said and they way you’ve said them, for example by your use of emotion-laden words such as “disgusting” – was to scream “racist” and to suggest that PRC was calling illegal aliens “subhuman” (which he hadn’t: YOU came up with that) and so on.
And you’re wondering why people got the idea you are a leftist?
Precisely how YOU interjecting an assertion of “stink of racial overtone” (to use your new phrase for the lens through which you viewed the quoted statements) or you responding with your original quoted reply does not comprise “playing the race card” is something that I suspect only you can understand.
Be disappointed all you want that others see your labeling of those statements as you did, and are now doing, as being playing the race card.[/quote]
Bill, answer one question: why would I “play the race card” when I agree with PRC that:
Illegal immigration is a problem
It is especially a problem for CA
I don’t want amnesty - I want to send offenders back to the place of origin, stronger enforcement of laws, stronger border enforcement, and higher penalties for those who employ them
In other words, I don’t want to accommodate illegal immigrants at all with policy - I don’t want to create opportunities for them or otherwise apologize for their lawbreaking. I want to hold them accountable for entering the country illegally.
What exactly would your precious “playing the race card” accomplish for someone who has the above position on illegal immigration?
You didn’t have facts to contradict the post with, such as Well actually such-and-such percentage of illegal aliens are working in white-collar and scientific or engineering jobs and the like, or what have you.[/quote]
I didn’t need facts to contradict this argument because I didn’t disagree with it or otherwise dispute it. Why would I need to present facts to counter an argument I agree with?
You are as bad as PRC on this issue.
What exactly did I hate to read, Bill? I can’t wait to hear your answer.
Because you’re a leftist or otherwise programmed to scream that someone is a racist and you find it “disgusting” and so forth as soon as someone says something you consider not politically correct regarding a minority?
I don’t know.
Why don’t YOU tell us why you launched off as you did with these accusations and why you claim “stink of racial overtone” when it is a fact that illegal aliens, demographically, don’t contribute to the intellectual capital of California and generally speaking are not intellectuals or educated or able to contribute in jobs requiring such?
Yeah you don’t like that that is so, I get that, but why do you keep screaming racism? Don’t just assert it yet again: WHY?
On your objection that you supposedly didn’t hate to read the statements in question: then why do you claim them to be “disgusting” and to contain “stink of racism” and so forth?
Because you’re a leftist or otherwise programmed to scream that someone is a racist and you find it “disgusting” and so forth as soon as someone says something you consider not politically correct regarding a minority?[/quote]
Horseshit. I never “screamed” anything - and political correctness has nothing to do with it.
If someone says a particular ethnicity has zero intellectual “ability”, that isn’t the same as they have “ability” but otherwise are not performing up to that ability. It raises a question and an eyebrow - period - and I raised it in passing, if you recall.
I think that is clear enough.
I’ll spell it out for you, Bill. Mexicans (generally) do not contribute to the intellectual capital of California. No one has disputed this fact, certainly not me. This was never, ever in dispute.
This lack of contribution is a result of one of two things: (1) either they can’t contribute - ever, no matter what we try to do for them - because they just don’t have it in them naturally, or (2) they can contribute - they have the inherent ability - but they just won’t, because of their culture or some other “nurture” factor.
PRC insinuated that, in fact, Mexicans at some level can’t contribute - it isn’t just a matter of won’t - by way of saying they have zero intellectual “ability”. “Ability” means raw natural potential, whether you can or whether you can’t - not whether you can, but whether you will or won’t.
“No ability” means the same thing as “unable”.
This insinuation - that Mexicans don’t have “ability” and are “unable”, therefore they couldn’t contribute to CA’s intellectual capital even if they wanted to and all other factors were covered - stinks of racism.
I said (1) I personally don’t think that, and (2) I think that line of thinking is disgusting. And I still think so. None of that, by the way, has anything to do with the indisputabel fact that illegal immigrants in CA are causing tons of harm, which they are, and I don’t dispute.
If thinking that makes me a “leftist”, then I welcome my new comrades with open arms and can’t wait for my engraved hammer and sickle.
If you can’t follow any of this, it isn’t my problem to fix.
You demonstrate yourself to be a master of reading things into posts that weren’t said and don’t follow, and then attacking persons based on your readings-in.
No further replies by me: as I said above, my work here is done. There can be no point in replying further. I have explained plainly why people have seen your posts as they have. The fact that you don’t accept that and can’t see it is your business entirely.
I think we have the stink of misunderstanding goin on here. I can’t imagine Thunderbolt as a leftist and I have Pm’d a bit with Bill in the past, specifically on race and have no reason to believe that he is a racist either.
Unless Bill has changed his mind he told me directly that generalizations based on someone’s race alone were unacceptable.
I’m not trying to be anybody’s mama, but you both sound like you’re being stubborn.
If it matters and to repeat what I’ve already said, all races have good and bad specimens, but our idiotic immigration policies practically beg the bad specimens to show up here. They’re bad not because of whatever ethnicity they are, but because they’re bad. It just so happens that Mexico is geographically situated so as to facilitate an over representation of this from that country. Of course this does not mean that every Mexican in the US fits the bill, but… you get the idea.
