Calf Size Of T-Nation Readers

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]jjblaze wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
Way fewer BS measurements than on the Arm Thread. Verrry interesting…

Why do you assume so much BS on the arm thread? Because people were bigger than you, or their body weights and measurements didn’t quite jive? [/quote]

I agree with that. Most of the measurements in that thread were smaller than 17" with one even around 13". How small are the arms of the person who thinks that would have to be a lie?

On a bodybuilding board, I would hope more people had larger arms than what was claimed in that thread. 15" arms is average for a grown man who doesn’t lift and simply mows the yard on a regular basis.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:
15" arms is average for a grown man who doesn’t lift and simply mows the yard on a regular basis. [/quote]

Right. Where was this “scientific” study conducted?

True cold measurements of genetically superior individuals:
Casey Viator 19-5/16"
Ray Mentzer 20-3/8" (off-season)
Mike Mentzer 18-5/8"
Bill Pearl 18-5/8"
Boyer Coe 18-7/16"
Arnold 19-1/2"
Sergio Olivia 20-1/4"

With these measurements in mind, I proclaim most of the 19" and 20" claims on the Arm Thread BS — or at least improperly measured.

43

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
15" arms is average for a grown man who doesn’t lift and simply mows the yard on a regular basis.

Right. Where was this “scientific” study conducted?
[/quote]

15" arms are big to you? Why would anyone need a scientific study to see the people around them? A grown man with arms smaller than 15" must either sit at a desk as his only exercise or be extremely thin, extremely short…or ill.

Testosterone ensures we have more muscle mass than a female even if we don’t lift weights. Surely someone who completely avoids using their muscles at all is not who we are speaking of.

I didn’t know any grown men around me growing up with arms smaller than that on average. Perhaps society as a whole is simply getting weaker, but it isn’t like attaining a 15" arm should be that difficult for the average man.

44

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
15" arms is average for a grown man who doesn’t lift and simply mows the yard on a regular basis.

Right. Where was this “scientific” study conducted?

True cold measurements of genetically superior individuals:
Casey Viator 19-5/16"
Ray Mentzer 20-3/8" (off-season)
Mike Mentzer 18-5/8"
Bill Pearl 18-5/8"
Boyer Coe 18-7/16"
Arnold 19-1/2"
Sergio Olivia 20-1/4"

With these measurements in mind, I proclaim most of the 19" and 20" claims on the Arm Thread BS — or at least improperly measured. [/quote]

One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.

45

[quote]Professor X wrote:
One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.[/quote]

They were triple-checked by Arthur Jones, someone whose methods and opinions I trust.

Did you actually measure all these 15+" arms you’re talking about? Other than the answer to that question, I don’t need any more info.

46

[quote]Professor X wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
15" arms is average for a grown man who doesn’t lift and simply mows the yard on a regular basis.

Right. Where was this “scientific” study conducted?

True cold measurements of genetically superior individuals:
Casey Viator 19-5/16"
Ray Mentzer 20-3/8" (off-season)
Mike Mentzer 18-5/8"
Bill Pearl 18-5/8"
Boyer Coe 18-7/16"
Arnold 19-1/2"
Sergio Olivia 20-1/4"

With these measurements in mind, I proclaim most of the 19" and 20" claims on the Arm Thread BS — or at least improperly measured.

One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.[/quote]

I personally live in a working town in australia, where the main job is working in the meat works 10 hours a day and most people I come in contact would fall short of 15 inch average.

There are of course are exceptions, my father being one with 17 inch arms (5ft10 at 95kg))inch arms with never actually doing a weights program, and the odd overweight person or those with Samoan or Maorie heritage.

I however can believe that some people on this site actually do possess the girths reported.

I however note that many people take these measurements in a pumped state and at different angles. Fore instance I always take my arm size with another third party measuring and reporting, arm relaxed by my side, taping just under the shoulder insertion of the arm, within an hour of waking up, and no exercise prior to the measurement.

My main goal in writing this post is to one show my distain for the 15 inch average espoused, and two show that arm size can be related to how a person actually performs their measurements and also other variables such as body fat and weight.

Furthermore I believe if you supply a measurement you should provide the measuring criteria used.

Furthermore my arm size in 15 inches measure by those variables at 5ft 10inches and 86kg at 10% body fat with less than 6 months training due to serious injury.

47

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.

They were triple-checked by Arthur Jones, someone whose methods and opinions I trust.

Did you actually measure all these 15+" arms you’re talking about? Other than the answer to that question, I don’t need any more info.[/quote]

Just to note Charles Poliquin published these measurements on T-Nation some time ago. I recognise that Arthur Jones was a man of high standing in the strength world but I believe that he does not represent the most unbiased publication here foreinstance he trained Boyer, Viator, and both of the Mentzers at some stage and was an training ideological enemy of Arnold.

Poliquins article also does shed some light of the measurements he got of current pro’s and there arm size reported to the measurements he got were about one to three inches smaller.

48

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Way fewer BS measurements than on the Arm Thread. Verrry interesting…[/quote]

who exactly was lieing in the arm thread?

and how big are your arms?

49

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.

They were triple-checked by Arthur Jones, someone whose methods and opinions I trust.

Did you actually measure all these 15+" arms you’re talking about? Other than the answer to that question, I don’t need any more info.[/quote]

How does this prove anything about Arthur Jones doing it wrong? If the same person took the measurement all of these times, then the same bias would be present in any measurements if he was lying.

Why would I believe Arthur Jones simply becasuse he said so? Like he is an unbiased eye in bodybuilding? That would be quite the contrary. His attempting to degrade the claims of Arnold would fit right in with what he seemed to believe as far as training principles.

As far as whether I measured all of those arms, no, I didn’t. However, I know how much my arms measure and being able to compare relative sizes isn’t exactly some talent that no human possesses.

50

[quote]Physical_Culture wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.

They were triple-checked by Arthur Jones, someone whose methods and opinions I trust.

Did you actually measure all these 15+" arms you’re talking about? Other than the answer to that question, I don’t need any more info.

Just to note Charles Poliquin published these measurements on T-Nation some time ago. I recognise that Arthur Jones was a man of high standing in the strength world but I believe that he does not represent the most unbiased publication here foreinstance he trained Boyer, Viator, and both of the Mentzers at some stage and was an training ideological enemy of Arnold.

Poliquins article also does shed some light of the measurements he got of current pro’s and there arm size reported to the measurements he got were about one to three inches smaller.
[/quote]

I would also assume that many bodybuilders would give their off season measurements if asked. It is very common to lose an inch or more while contest dieting. Most of these guys look MUCH bigger and more filled out when off season. Jo Jo Ntforo has off season pics on his site and his arms appear to be at least an inch larger or more than when in contest condition.

51

[quote]Physical_Culture wrote:
I personally live in a working town in australia, where the main job is working in the meat works 10 hours a day and most people I come in contact would fall short of 15 inch average.

There are of course are exceptions, my father being one with 17 inch arms (5ft10 at 95kg))inch arms with never actually doing a weights program, and the odd overweight person or those with Samoan or Maorie heritage.[/quote]

I grew up in Texas. I would say that most of the guys I knew growing up (especially the men in my family) had arms about 15" without ever lifting regularly.

My grandfather never lifted a weight in his life (he also never drove a car and rode his bike to work until the day he couldn’t) and his arms were pretty big and vascular. I do believe there may be ethnic differences even though some would deny it.

The same with the Samoans you mentioned, I didn’t know many black men growing up who couldn’t get to about that size unless they were just very skinny. My dad left the Army around 200lbs lean at about 5’9" and he never lifted aside from some push ups.

Genetics are very much a factor. I guarantee the average farm boy regardless of ethnicity is sporting arms at least 15" in the United States.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Physical_Culture wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
One more thing, where is the scientific double blind study proving those arm measurements? If you are going to claim you need this info from others, at least provide it yourself.

They were triple-checked by Arthur Jones, someone whose methods and opinions I trust.

Did you actually measure all these 15+" arms you’re talking about? Other than the answer to that question, I don’t need any more info.

Just to note Charles Poliquin published these measurements on T-Nation some time ago. I recognise that Arthur Jones was a man of high standing in the strength world but I believe that he does not represent the most unbiased publication here foreinstance he trained Boyer, Viator, and both of the Mentzers at some stage and was an training ideological enemy of Arnold.

Poliquins article also does shed some light of the measurements he got of current pro’s and there arm size reported to the measurements he got were about one to three inches smaller.

I would also assume that many bodybuilders would give their off season measurements if asked. It is very common to lose an inch or more while contest dieting. Most of these guys look MUCH bigger and more filled out when off season. Jo Jo Ntforo has off season pics on his site and his arms appear to be at least an inch larger or more than when in contest condition.[/quote]

Jojo Ntiforo in contest condition

53

JoJo months later in the off season.

If he were to give his “off season” measurement, as I am sure most guys would do, it may be much more than an inch larger than when in contest shape. That doesn’t mean he lied about the measurement.

54

This is the calf thread right?
6ft tall
calf = 18.75inch cold
weight= 270lb (off season,er I mean FAT)

55

[quote]Physical_Culture wrote:
Poliquins article also does shed some light of the measurements he got of current pro’s and their arm size reported to the measurements he got were about one to three inches smaller.[/quote]

Thank you. Well kids, there it is. I know you all trust Poliquin’s credentials.

56

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I grew up in Texas. I would say that most of the guys I knew growing up (especially the men in my family) had arms about 15" without ever lifting regularly…

…Genetics are very much a factor. I guarantee the average farm boy regardless of ethnicity is sporting arms at least 15" in the United States.[/quote]

I wasn’t going to bring-up the “G” word for fear of being slammed. I’m glad you conceded at least that fact.

The farm boys, regardless of ethnicity, come from a family line of farm boys. Genetics are built into that equation.

My Dad’s always been physically active and his arms w/o lifting were about 13". Even when he and my mother danced professionally and he lifted her overhead on a regular basis, his arms were never more than 14".

57

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Physical_Culture wrote:
Poliquins article also does shed some light of the measurements he got of current pro’s and their arm size reported to the measurements he got were about one to three inches smaller.

Thank you. Well kids, there it is. I know you all trust Poliquin’s credentials.[/quote]

I trust numbers I can see for myself. I don’t doubt that some pro’s exaggerate claims. I also don’t doubt that he measured some with less than they said they were. What I doubt is the belief that someone is lying if they claim their arms are over 20" based on Arthur Jones writing that Arnold’s were somehow just over 19" in peak condition.

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What I doubt is the belief that someone is lying if they claim their arms are over 20" based on Arthur Jones writing that Arnold’s were somehow just over 19" in peak condition. [/quote]

What I doubt is the opinion of someone who observes 15" arms in his family and then tries to pass that off as if it’s ironclad proof of a national average.

59

Not big enough.

60

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What I doubt is the belief that someone is lying if they claim their arms are over 20" based on Arthur Jones writing that Arnold’s were somehow just over 19" in peak condition.

What I doubt is the opinion of someone who observes 15" arms in his family and then tries to pass that off as if it’s ironclad proof of a national average.[/quote]

I would still think of that as an average for an ACTIVE person of average height. I see guys all day in the military and I would be surprised if most of them fell much below 15" as far as the arm measurement. Not all of them lift weights but most are active enough to not be called “sedentary”.