[quote]dankid wrote:
Im going to do cable bench in my plan and yes its because CW said so.
Its not because he said they are better or anything, but his point about how they allow complete scapular protraction and retraction makes a lot of sense to me.[/quote]
hmm…maybe it was a CW article… can you send me the link so I can check it out?
found it…
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury&cr=
Anyway, as an auxiliary movement I think it will do the job.
Thanks for all the replies.
-I
[quote]dankid wrote:
Its not because he said they are better or anything, but his point about how they allow complete scapular protraction and retraction makes a lot of sense to me.
I understand the pitfalls with the standing press, as you wont be able to use as much weight, because you arent pushing agains a stable surface, but you can still recruit a lot of MU’s with higher speed work.
[/quote]
This is so stupid. So very stupid.
You know what other exercise allows scapular protraction and retraction while pressing? You’ve got Push-ups, Overhead Pressing, and Dips. Why would you choose a cable chest press over any of these?
You will not recruit any significant amount of motor units or whatever with the standing cable chest press no matter how fast you try to do them. Doing fast cable chest presses is not the same thing as a medicine ball chest pass or 8 sets of Dynamic Effort Benching.
And when you refer to the “standing pres” this means you’re talking about THE Press, not a standing cable chest press. But the real standing press, THE Press, the Olympic Event that was removed from the weightlifting Biathlon, the lift where you PRESS a barbell OVERHEAD with straight legs is an excellent pressing movement that involves all that scapular movement you’re after AND allows you to use heavy weights that will make you stronger.
If you say “but I can’t use heavy weight. I can only Press 95lbs overhead” then you have no right working your chest with the cable crossover machine and you need to get yourself back to Pressing and Bench Pressing so you can get strong.
If practiced with good form, the Bench Press is THE BEST lift for increasing upper body strength. Do your Face Pulls and Chins and Rows and Bench with Good From. Bench in a Power Rack if you can’t find a spotter. Do these things and you won’t get injured.
Okay… maybe I won’t continue doing them. What would you recommend I add as my third exercise after Flat Barbell BEnch and Incline Dumbell Press?
the sitting “bench” on a machine thing seems to lie, at least to me, i can put up easy 40-50 pounds more than my Dumbbell bench… plus i ran out of weight to increase on on that machine ^_^;;
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
dankid wrote:
This is so stupid. So very stupid.
You know what other exercise allows scapular protraction and retraction while pressing? You’ve got Push-ups, Overhead Pressing, and Dips. Why would you choose a cable chest press over any of these?
You will not recruit any significant amount of motor units or whatever with the standing cable chest press no matter how fast you try to do them. Doing fast cable chest presses is not the same thing as a medicine ball chest pass or 8 sets of Dynamic Effort Benching.
And when you refer to the “standing pres” this means you’re talking about THE Press, not a standing cable chest press. But the real standing press, THE Press, the Olympic Event that was removed from the weightlifting Biathlon, the lift where you PRESS a barbell OVERHEAD with straight legs is an excellent pressing movement that involves all that scapular movement you’re after AND allows you to use heavy weights that will make you stronger.
If you say “but I can’t use heavy weight. I can only Press 95lbs overhead” then you have no right working your chest with the cable crossover machine and you need to get yourself back to Pressing and Bench Pressing so you can get strong.
If practiced with good form, the Bench Press is THE BEST lift for increasing upper body strength. Do your Face Pulls and Chins and Rows and Bench with Good From. Bench in a Power Rack if you can’t find a spotter. Do these things and you won’t get injured. [/quote]
Well thats why I also mentioned pushups. I cant do dips because of shoulder/mobility issues, and am currently alternating between standing cablle press, and incline DB bench. Im trying to increase the ROM and Mobility of my shoulders and thoracic region to be able to do true “standing presses”.
I disagree that bench press is the best upper body strength exercise. I would say push press or jerks, but no need to argue this, they are both good exercises.
[quote]IvanTheTerrible wrote:
Okay… maybe I won’t continue doing them. What would you recommend I add as my third exercise after Flat Barbell BEnch and Incline Dumbell Press?[/quote]
I might do…
Flat Barbell Bench
Incline Dumbbell Bench
Machine Fly
Olympic Barbell Curls
Dumbbell Hammer Curls
Triceps Rope Pushdowns
I think a good Machine Pec-Deck is the best Chest Fly movement, even though Chest Fly movements aren’t that great. It still allows you to use heavier weights than you could with cables or dumbbells.
It’s occurred to me that getting a bigger chest isn’t really about exercise selection. As long as you’re doing both Incline and Flat Benching with Dumbbells and Barbells you will get enough variety to grow. The best thing you can do to concentrate on getting a fuller chest is to gain weight. No, don’t gain fat and get moobs. But if you gain 15 pounds your chest will be fuller and wider.
I think a good Machine Pec-Deck is the best Chest Fly movement, even though Chest Fly movements aren’t that great. It still allows you to use heavier weights than you could with cables or dumbbells.
This is not always true. Some lifters have stronger triceps or shoulders and they take over when doing pressing movements. Which would make a flye movement a great exercise for helping develop the chest without letting other muscles take over.
One thing to remember about CW’s training is he works a lot with mma athletes where unsupported pressing movements can be very beneficial. When these fighters are punching or pushing they do not have a bench on there back to hold them up so they need to be able to generate maximal force while using there abdominals to maintain their posture and balance.
For bodybuilding purposes I would not put to much emphasis on standing cable presses or flyes but cable flyes when lying on a bench have worked pretty good for me offering tension on the chest through the whole range of motion.
NOT sure why some of you are SO against this guy adding this movement in his routine? Its just one exercise…its not a school of thought…
I did the cable chest press today…
But not standing…seated…
When I did them standing I kept falling backward…
I never noticed (as I do mostly free weights) my gym had a seated cable press…
You can really feel the full protraction and retraction at the scapulae. Also as Chad said, “The cable chest press allows you to fully protract your scapulae in order to activate the often underdeveloped and disrespected serratus anterior. Strengthening a weak serratus is a necessary step to shoulder health.”
The past few years…I was mostly doing barbell bench (incline, decline, and flat)
after making my shoulders almost raw…I threw in some pushups and faces pulls…and NOW every other chest work out I am dropping barbell movements in favor of dumbbell presses, the cable chest press, and push ups…maybe I might do this for a few weeks and then go to every other chest work out…depending on how I feel…
ps: even Poliquin said the other day that cables are NOT machines and he gives them credit for being as good as free weights…this statement blew my mind until I recently started messing with cables…
ps #2: this is the main reason I come to this site…to open my mind, learn new things and see if they can help me in my training…if I did not feel the cable press…It would be dropped after the first set…
[quote]mtotry wrote:
ps: even Poliquin said the other day that cables are NOT machines and he gives them credit for being as good as free weights…this statement blew my mind until I recently started messing with cables…
[/quote]
Yeah, but I’d still choose a Hammer Strength Dip Machine over a standing cable chest press.
The seated cable chest press, I dunno. I think only one company makes these and they also make a sort of cable gym with articulating arms that you can do various pulls and stuff from. I used it for rows a few times and liked it.
This whole standing cable chest press is kinda like doing a sled chest press, except it’s gay.
I guess if you want to shuttle in some blood into your pec/delt area for active recovery, then you could legitimize using it as an exercise. But it’s not going to tear down much muscle or build much strength. It should defiantly not be a staple movement in someone’s training, no matter who they are or what sport their focus is in. And it sounds like from the “First Person CW” article that his workout is
Jump Rope
Olympic Lift
Face Pull w/ Rope
Standing Chest Press
Some other stuff
So no one is going to try using a dip belt with weights to help them keep from falling over on standing cable chest press? HEY DANKID, give it a go, and see if it works.
Personally I thought the standing cable presses felt really good. It took a little while to get my placement right so I wouldnt fly backwards, but with a sturdy footing and good posture (not the cheating and leaning forward w/ their body weight you see people doing when doing cable flies) I think it’s pretty effective. That being said, the seated cable press might be even better, combining the best of both. NOT as a replacement for the barbell bench press, but as a secondary or tertiary movement. There’s a seated Cable Press at my gym as well…maybe I’ll give it a shot on Monday.
At the end of the day, I’m sure it’s a solid movement. It’s not like I’m proposing to do flies while balancing on a bosu ball with my legs six inches from the floor while pulling apart elastic bands or anything 
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
mtotry wrote:
ps: even Poliquin said the other day that cables are NOT machines and he gives them credit for being as good as free weights…this statement blew my mind until I recently started messing with cables…
Yeah, but I’d still choose a Hammer Strength Dip Machine over a standing cable chest press.
The seated cable chest press, I dunno. I think only one company makes these and they also make a sort of cable gym with articulating arms that you can do various pulls and stuff from. I used it for rows a few times and liked it.
This whole standing cable chest press is kinda like doing a sled chest press, except it’s gay.
I guess if you want to shuttle in some blood into your pec/delt area for active recovery, then you could legitimize using it as an exercise. But it’s not going to tear down much muscle or build much strength. It should defiantly not be a staple movement in someone’s training, no matter who they are or what sport their focus is in. And it sounds like from the “First Person CW” article that his workout is
Jump Rope
Olympic Lift
Face Pull w/ Rope
Standing Chest Press
Some other stuff
[/quote]
It wasnt clear for me if he was describing one workout of the week or just telling some of the stuff he does in the various workouts of the week… anyway doesnt say that he personally do cable press as his only pushing movement (and no dips, overhead presses, pushups, etc…) and neither that one should drop other movements in favor of doing cable presses. I understood that he feels that the bench is not worth doing for him (who already developed good strength and is not trying to get bigger), but it may not be the case of beginners, the article just is about how he trains…
Maybe i try this exercise when my pec recover from injury, if i feel its good i can use it in my routine, if not i wont use, but i’m sure i’ll dont stop benching. I think its very dumb to read an article and think “Waterbury do cable presses in place of bench, i’ll do that too”, but there is no problem trying it if feel like it, even if it is just to can say you tried it and it sucks.
[quote]Scrotus wrote:
So no one is going to try using a dip belt with weights to help them keep from falling over on standing cable chest press? HEY DANKID, give it a go, and see if it works.[/quote]
Lol i’ll think about it, thats a lot of trouble to go through for one movement. If anything i’ll just lower my center of gravity, so that im in more of a lunge position.
[quote]dankid wrote:
Scrotus wrote:
So no one is going to try using a dip belt with weights to help them keep from falling over on standing cable chest press? HEY DANKID, give it a go, and see if it works.
Lol i’ll think about it, thats a lot of trouble to go through for one movement. If anything i’ll just lower my center of gravity, so that im in more of a lunge position.[/quote]
I think it will help make you “heavier” so it takes more weight to push you back.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
dankid wrote:
Its not because he said they are better or anything, but his point about how they allow complete scapular protraction and retraction makes a lot of sense to me.
I understand the pitfalls with the standing press, as you wont be able to use as much weight, because you arent pushing agains a stable surface, but you can still recruit a lot of MU’s with higher speed work.
This is so stupid. So very stupid.
You know what other exercise allows scapular protraction and retraction while pressing? You’ve got Push-ups, Overhead Pressing, and Dips. Why would you choose a cable chest press over any of these?
You will not recruit any significant amount of motor units or whatever with the standing cable chest press no matter how fast you try to do them. Doing fast cable chest presses is not the same thing as a medicine ball chest pass or 8 sets of Dynamic Effort Benching.
And when you refer to the “standing pres” this means you’re talking about THE Press, not a standing cable chest press. But the real standing press, THE Press, the Olympic Event that was removed from the weightlifting Biathlon, the lift where you PRESS a barbell OVERHEAD with straight legs is an excellent pressing movement that involves all that scapular movement you’re after AND allows you to use heavy weights that will make you stronger.
If you say “but I can’t use heavy weight. I can only Press 95lbs overhead” then you have no right working your chest with the cable crossover machine and you need to get yourself back to Pressing and Bench Pressing so you can get strong.
If practiced with good form, the Bench Press is THE BEST lift for increasing upper body strength. Do your Face Pulls and Chins and Rows and Bench with Good From. Bench in a Power Rack if you can’t find a spotter. Do these things and you won’t get injured. [/quote]
In addition to what Scott said, if you that concerned about scapular protraction, then you do scapular pushups after benching or pressing.
[quote]Scrotus wrote:
So no one is going to try using a dip belt with weights to help them keep from falling over on standing cable chest press? HEY DANKID, give it a go, and see if it works.[/quote]
If you’re gonna put a dip belt on, why not do some dips and chins?
Before going all gung-ho trying to help this “kid” out, cock a snook at his previous posts and decide if he is worth assisting. Particularly look at his body recomposition thread where he argues with Stu.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Scrotus wrote:
So no one is going to try using a dip belt with weights to help them keep from falling over on standing cable chest press? HEY DANKID, give it a go, and see if it works.
If you’re gonna put a dip belt on, why not do some dips and chins?[/quote]
[quote]UkpairehMombooto wrote:
Before going all gung-ho trying to help this “kid” out, cock a snook at his previous posts and decide if he is worth assisting. Particularly look at his body recomposition thread where he argues with Stu.
[/quote]
Or you could um… Shutty!
FYI… stuck to the standing cable presses… the seated one on the machine didnt give anywhere near the same stretch. It was much narrower and you couldnt adjust the angle of the pullies.
-I