OK, trying to harden up the outer/side pecs, told that CC’s would hit this effectively…problem is I have “dicey” rotators, and can hear popping, creaking,etc. with occasional pain when I’ve attempted this lift…
Any suggestions on how to hit this pec area without compromising my rotators (and yes I do direct rotator warmups with 2.5 dumbell at the beginning of every workout|:-)…Let’s hear it, brain-trust…
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
OK, trying to harden up the outer/side pecs, told that CC’s would hit this effectively…problem is I have “dicey” rotators, and can hear popping, creaking,etc. with occasional pain when I’ve attempted this lift…
Any suggestions on how to hit this pec area without compromising my rotators (and yes I do direct rotator warmups with 2.5 dumbell at the beginning of every workout|:-)…Let’s hear it, brain-trust…[/quote]
“Outer/side pecs”?
All ‘there’s no such thing as outer/inner pecs!’ issues aside, I believe that cable crossovers stimulate more of the “inner” pecs.
Also, just from personal experience, doing lying cable flys on a decline bench simulates a cable crossover very effectively, perhaps even more effectively, and with less stress on my shoulders.
CT has described this exercise in some of his threads I believe.
Outer pecs are hit when you work the chest. SO my recommendation is to do chest exercises.
If cable xovers are hurting, I wouldn’t do them. Look on this site for informaion to heal your shoulder.
Did you read Eric Cressey’s articles on healing your shoulder?
I thought cable crossover were rather easy on the shoulders. Perhaps you’re messing them up with other exercises?
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Did you read Eric Cressey’s articles on healing your shoulder?
[/quote]
Yes and am incorporating techniques plus others as mentioned,(but of course it takes time)…I’m almost too cautious fearing injury. For example, I only use incline press w/145 for reps X 3/4; then carefully push out 3/5 reps w/205 max these days, anything more on bench is IMV too dangerous (and yes, as I learned here, I use the powerlifing style grip, not the “wings out” bodybuilding style, and anchor the scapulas against the bench|:-)
I tried using the flye machine, and later the cable crossovers, but both exercises “don’t like” my flaky rotators…I’m thinking I’m going to end up with unbalanced pecs just doing incline presses (or am I wrong here?)…
[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
“Outer/side pecs”?
All ‘there’s no such thing as outer/inner pecs!’ [/quote]
Yeah, I’m aware of the “whole pec” theory, however, there is the “mind/muscle connection” theory that claims one can concentrate flexion/contraction into areas of the muscle…Bogus? Dunno’, I’m no Thibs or Berardi, or even an Arnold or a Weider/
I won’t be able to do the lying cable flyes where I train, however, maybe try with light DB’s and let the rotators “talk” to me(?)…Of course, light weights mean little hyperthropy though>:-(
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
All ‘there’s no such thing as outer/inner pecs!’
Yeah, I’m aware of the “whole pec” theory, however, there is the “mind/muscle connection” theory that claims one can concentrate flexion/contraction into areas of the muscle…Bogus? Dunno’…
, I’m no Thibs or Berardi, or even an
issues aside, I believe that cable crossovers stimulate more of the “inner” pecs.[/quote]
If there’s any muscle that WILL benefit from multiple angles it’s the fan-shaped pec muscles. There’s no “mind-muscle” thing about it.
Dips are your best best for stimulation in the stretched position. Go down as far as you feel comfortable and keep trying to go lower each time you do these.
Do your rotator work after the pecs and stretch, stretch, stretch your pecs. Add some rear delt work to balance out your shoulder girdle muscles.
Seriously, are your nipples pointed towards the floor when you do this excercise? They should be pointed straight forward. Keep that chest up.
And the point of keeping your chest up is to keep the scapulae retracted. Form.
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Did you read Eric Cressey’s articles on healing your shoulder?
Yes and am incorporating techniques plus others as mentioned,(but of course it takes time)…I’m almost too cautious fearing injury. For example, I only use incline press w/145 for reps X 3/4; then carefully push out 3/5 reps w/205 max these days, anything more on bench is IMV too dangerous (and yes, as I learned here, I use the powerlifing style grip, not the “wings out” bodybuilding style, and anchor the scapulas against the bench|:-)
I tried using the flye machine, and later the cable crossovers, but both exercises “don’t like” my flaky rotators…I’m thinking I’m going to end up with unbalanced pecs just doing incline presses (or am I wrong here?)…
[/quote]
Hmmm, you don’t mention any rowing. Nor external and internal rotations.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Hmmm, you don’t mention any rowing. Nor external and internal rotations.[/quote]
Bodybuilders are often pec heavy with weak external rotators. The shoulder is pulled forward in the girdle causing the impingement problems experienced by many.
I know the jury is still out on this one: Work external rotators only or both int. and ext?
I’ve heard both sides from trained PTs and sports doctors. Jerry Robinson and the guys who created The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution strongly indicated that most of the focus should be on the externals.
Rowing’s great as long as you don’t let the shoulders “roll” forward in the stretched position — keep 'em tight.
Rear delt work is crucial. Lying rear DB raises are great since they keep it strict; be sure and keep your shoulder blade pulled back and tight throughout ther movement (one arm at a time).
Sitting backwards on a chest fly machine is also an excellent way to hit the rear delts, ext rotators, lower traps, and other mid-back muscles.
I usually do a specific external rotator (“L” raises lying or seated) or rear delt exercise every 7-10 days. I try to do these concurrent with rows or other pulling movements so they have rest time in between.
BTW, did I mention stretch-stretch-stretch?!
Later,
Scott
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Hmmm, you don’t mention any rowing. Nor external and internal rotations.[/quote]
Oh, I’m a rowin’ fool these days, I’ve abandoned all lat machine moves as they strain my rotators, and stick to basic standing/chest pad rowing with barbell plates, slowly working up to match Bench poundages…
I always stretch also…