been reading a lot in preparation for my next cycle. im almost sure im going to run deca. but ive been made aware of the suppression and difficult recovery that this drug presents so obviously i want to do everything i can to have a good run.
so my question is: does the use of caber throughout the cycle aid in the recovery process or is it simply a way to control prolactin on cycle and nothing else?
thanks
You pose a good question which will be difficult to answer. All of what I know is purely anecdotal.
I like ND, and run it every cycle. I also run caber along with it, .5mg twice a week for precautionary purposes. There are two trains of thought with deca and caber as far as I know. The first is: if you properly control estrogen, you won’t have any problems, prolactin related or not. The other pertains to regulating prolactin, and whether you can get an erection. That’s where taking the caber would have bearing.
I get gyno when running test/ND. I use an AI, and run caber. My highest dose has been 600 test, 500 deca. I have no erectile dysfunction.
I know of a member here that ran a test/ND cycle with no caber, and he fell into a depression and suffered from erectile dysfunction after coming off. I can’t say they were related. He did recover after several months.
It would make sense to run caber pills during, and extend the test about two or three weeks past the deca for insurance purposes.
So, to answer your questions, I think it does both. Run it.
[quote]5.0 wrote:
You pose a good question which will be difficult to answer. All of what I know is purely anecdotal.
I like ND, and run it every cycle. I also run caber along with it, .5mg twice a week for precautionary purposes. There are two trains of thought with deca and caber as far as I know. The first is: if you properly control estrogen, you won’t have any problems, prolactin related or not. The other pertains to regulating prolactin, and whether you can get an erection. That’s where taking the caber would have bearing.
I get gyno when running test/ND. I use an AI, and run caber. My highest dose has been 600 test, 500 deca. I have no erectile dysfunction.
I know of a member here that ran a test/ND cycle with no caber, and he fell into a depression and suffered from erectile dysfunction after coming off. I can’t say they were related. He did recover after several months.
It would make sense to run caber pills during, and extend the test about two or three weeks past the deca for insurance purposes.
So, to answer your questions, I think it does both. Run it. [/quote]
5.0 what is the lowest amount you have ran deca, while still feeling that dose is effective? Or, the lowest dose where you still noticed joint aid properties?
Thanks
DLB
That’s hard to answer, since I have joint pain now in both elbows.
When I first started using it, my dose was low - 200mg/wk. I had good results back then. Saps likes deca as well, and I believe he runs it around 300 a week with good results. And he outweighs me by 40 pounds.
I only recently bumped it up to 500 to see if it had any effect on my elbows.
Ah, on the outside (lateral) part of the elbows? I HATE THAT PAIN! How does the 500mg/wk feel?
BTW 5.0, nice dog, rotties are big here.- Beautiful creatures aren’t they?!
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
Ah, on the outside (lateral) part of the elbows? I HATE THAT PAIN! How does the 500mg/wk feel?[/quote]
The pain seems more where the biceps attach. The pain is there when I flex the bi’s, or when doing pull-ups, but no other pulling or pushing exercises. It’s strange.
I hate to say I’ve seen little to no impact with the increased dosage. I was debating HGH as a next experimental step.
As far as the Rotts, yes they are great dogs. I couldn’t imagine not having one. Do you have any in your family?
I cant answer your question, but if you’re worried about recovery, why not run HCG during the cycle?
Wow great stuff in here.
5.0 pretty much nailed a great answer in post #2. The combination of an AI and caber should both protect against any gyno in any form as well as greatly aiding in suppression relief. I personally do get moderate suppression with ND and yes I keep my weekly dose between 300-400mg.
To address DLB’s question I think 200-300mg a week is enough to see the benefits of joint relief.
Equally true after about 400-500mg more is not better, more is simply more and more suppressive. I will never run more than 400mg a week and quite honestly Im not so sure 400mg is any more effective than 200-300mg a week [at least from a joint mobility point of view]
[quote]saps wrote:
Wow great stuff in here.
5.0 pretty much nailed a great answer in post #2. The combination of an AI and caber should both protect against any gyno in any form as well as greatly aiding in suppression relief. I personally do get moderate suppression with ND and yes I keep my weekly dose between 300-400mg.
To address DLB’s question I think 200-300mg a week is enough to see the benefits of joint relief.
Equally true after about 400-500mg more is not better, more is simply more and more suppressive. I will never run more than 400mg a week and quite honestly Im not so sure 400mg is any more effective than 200-300mg a week [at least from a joint mobility point of view][/quote]
Case in point, Saps, is my 500mg dose. I’m around a month’s worth of that with no remarkable improvement at all.
5.0,
Hey bud, you mentioned gyno from running both Te,Nd together. I didn’t catch if that was only once before, perhaps as a result of you not running both deterants, (Caber/AI), or was that a lesser amount maybe of one or the other? Can you clarify for me please.
Great thread and it’s of interest to me too, running both of those in my next little shindig in a while. Sounds like 300/week, is a good overall number, which is what I was planning to use.
Anyway, just wondering about that particular gyno flare up you experienced.
TB
Yeah, I was running both anastrozole and caber when I got gyno. I think I’m like you, in I’m finding I need more adex to do the job as time goes on. I believe that’s why I got the gyno, as I didn’t realize that’s what was happening.
That being said, I zapped it with a nolva protocol of 100/75/50/25mg over four weeks while remaining on cycle, and it disappeared.
That was last summer. Last month the gyno began again but another nolva protocol took care of it. After this second bout is when I concluded the same thing you and I talked about, in that I need more adex during the cycle. I’ve sinced upped it to .6mg daily, so we’ll see what happens.
[quote]5.0 wrote:
Yeah, I was running both anastrozole and caber when I got gyno. I think I’m like you, in I’m finding I need more adex to do the job as time goes on. I believe that’s why I got the gyno, as I didn’t realize that’s what was happening.
That being said, I zapped it with a nolva protocol of 100/75/50/25mg over four weeks while remaining on cycle, and it disappeared.
That was last summer. Last month the gyno began again but another nolva protocol took care of it. After this second bout is when I concluded the same thing you and I talked about, in that I need more adex during the cycle. I’ve sinced upped it to .6mg daily, so we’ll see what happens.[/quote]
Shit, yeah I end up running adex at 1mg/day and suffer no low estro issues, and still when test is upwards of 5-600/wk, I find it hard to say for sure if that’s even enough 'dex still.
That’s why I was contemplating going to Letro from here out, and just really nailing my dose of it so as not to drop too low. I know Cortes uses it exclusively now from what he told me a while back. Anywho…on that second gyno bout last month, you used the nolva proto, again during cycle with success? If so that’s great. Pretty high dosage, but if it works fuck it.
What kind of nolva sides did you get at that dose? I experience oilyness and skin flushing or just weirded out skin when just on 40mg/day of it! Weird, I can’t imagine running it at 100/day for a solid week, lol!
Thanks again as usual.
Letro scares me though given it’s reputation for killing libido. Specific dosing seems much more important with Letro versus adex.
The second bout I again did about a week at 100mg, then reduced it to 50. The glands have shrunk but are still there, so I’m running 50 still.
The only side I noted was an increase in bacne, and that really was negligible anyway.
[quote]5.0 wrote:
[quote]saps wrote:
Wow great stuff in here.
5.0 pretty much nailed a great answer in post #2. The combination of an AI and caber should both protect against any gyno in any form as well as greatly aiding in suppression relief. I personally do get moderate suppression with ND and yes I keep my weekly dose between 300-400mg.
To address DLB’s question I think 200-300mg a week is enough to see the benefits of joint relief.
Equally true after about 400-500mg more is not better, more is simply more and more suppressive. I will never run more than 400mg a week and quite honestly Im not so sure 400mg is any more effective than 200-300mg a week [at least from a joint mobility point of view][/quote]
Case in point, Saps, is my 500mg dose. I’m around a month’s worth of that with no remarkable improvement at all.[/quote]
Good call there. Its like once you hit the saturation [shall we call it] more just doesn’t do anything. I gotta be honest that Im strongly considering back down my own ND from 400 to 200-300 weekly because a] its probably nearly as effective b] its less suppressive and c] I’d get more mileage from my ND supply.
BTW nice to see your ass back on the forums Camaro Boy
[quote]saps wrote:
[quote]5.0 wrote:
[quote]saps wrote:
Wow great stuff in here.
5.0 pretty much nailed a great answer in post #2. The combination of an AI and caber should both protect against any gyno in any form as well as greatly aiding in suppression relief. I personally do get moderate suppression with ND and yes I keep my weekly dose between 300-400mg.
To address DLB’s question I think 200-300mg a week is enough to see the benefits of joint relief.
Equally true after about 400-500mg more is not better, more is simply more and more suppressive. I will never run more than 400mg a week and quite honestly Im not so sure 400mg is any more effective than 200-300mg a week [at least from a joint mobility point of view][/quote]
Case in point, Saps, is my 500mg dose. I’m around a month’s worth of that with no remarkable improvement at all.[/quote]
Good call there. Its like once you hit the saturation [shall we call it] more just doesn’t do anything. I gotta be honest that Im strongly considering back down my own ND from 400 to 200-300 weekly because a] its probably nearly as effective b] its less suppressive and c] I’d get more mileage from my ND supply.
BTW nice to see your ass back on the forums Camaro Boy[/quote]
Lol, nice to be back indeed especially in the company of some great friends here.
Thanks.
[quote]saps wrote:
[quote]5.0 wrote:
[quote]saps wrote:
Wow great stuff in here.
5.0 pretty much nailed a great answer in post #2. The combination of an AI and caber should both protect against any gyno in any form as well as greatly aiding in suppression relief. I personally do get moderate suppression with ND and yes I keep my weekly dose between 300-400mg.
To address DLB’s question I think 200-300mg a week is enough to see the benefits of joint relief.
Equally true after about 400-500mg more is not better, more is simply more and more suppressive. I will never run more than 400mg a week and quite honestly Im not so sure 400mg is any more effective than 200-300mg a week [at least from a joint mobility point of view][/quote]
Case in point, Saps, is my 500mg dose. I’m around a month’s worth of that with no remarkable improvement at all.[/quote]
Good call there. Its like once you hit the saturation [shall we call it] more just doesn’t do anything. I gotta be honest that Im strongly considering back down my own ND from 400 to 200-300 weekly because a] its probably nearly as effective b] its less suppressive and c] I’d get more mileage from my ND supply.
BTW nice to see your ass back on the forums Camaro Boy[/quote]
Haha, the new Camaros are pretty friggin’ nice, no matter my loyalty to the Mustang.
I have noticed some improvement in my shoulder, though, although there are many movements that are painful. The elbows…nothing. The jury is still out. There are too many variables, so who freakin’ knows!!
Yeah, ha, figured nothing will sway you from the Stang fever…same goes for me and my Cam.
5.0, how do you feel though, myself I much prefer my 67 RS over any newly modeled Camaro. Do you feel the same with Stangs…I know you have a 5.0, but do you like the older styled ones, when fixed up especially, over the new?
If I had to pick a STanger, I would say I like the fastbacks from 67.
Sorry bout the hijack Op!
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
I cant answer your question, but if you’re worried about recovery, why not run HCG during the cycle?[/quote]
HCG wont lower prolactin if that becomes a problem.
OP
I believe that keeping prolactin under control will help expedite recovery.
I also think it’s a bad idea to go by which side effects you experience when trying to decide whether or not to use cabergoline. A lot of things go on while on a cycle including multiple compounds. It may be hard to guage what side effects are manifesting from a particular drug. When I used 300mg Deca I developed what I guess can be called ‘anorgasmia’. I didn’t have ED and I didn’t have any of the mental side effects of elevated prolactin but obviously it was elevated. I used 1mg of caber per week and came off 9.5 weeks of Deca just fine.
I think it is much wiser to not take a chance with something like this when the solution is something as simple as taking a pill twice a week.
[quote]5.0 wrote:
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
As far as the Rotts, yes they are great dogs. I couldn’t imagine not having one. Do you have any in your family?[/quote]
My uncle has a whole bunch of them, and they are as mellow as kittens. They are pretty popular around here, although, most people don’t treat them right = (