My back is much stronger since I started doing Good Mornings, obviously no idea if they are a good idea for you with an injury.
[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
ok, i think the suggestions of Good mornings and SLDL’s might be a bit over the top for me,considering how many injuries ive had down there, doing heavy good mornings would probably be the worst thing to possibly do right now lol.
[/quote]
That’s why I mentioned you should start light and let your back get stronger with them over time.
It’s not like you’re going to be able to do ANYTHING heavy with your back the way it is right now. Focus more on rehab now, and then use those exercises in your arsenal as it becomes more stable.
indeed i was more refering to horsepuss’s comment, which was kind of rediculous
[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
indeed i was more refering to horsepuss’s comment, which was kind of rediculous[/quote]
OK so dont do heavy goodmornings,do them light.
I use to have really bad lower back pain from lifting and work,then acouple years ago i went to hawaii and spent a week boogie boarding.I have been back once and still have no lower back pain.I attribute this to the fact that i was holding my upper body and legs out of the water over and over for long periods of time like doing a super man.So either do super mans alot or go to hawaii and boogie board for a week.
ya, well my recovery has been going pretty good, id say im about 90 percent recovered now.
i think for my back “bulletproofing” ill start with high volume, lightweight machine back extensions, and get very strong on them. Then ill move onto deadlifts with the same stategy, then maybe ill give goodmornings a shot.
I didn’t see this till now, sorry.
Not that I have anything of any unique value to add though.
The QL certainly can feel like the lower back. As mentioned in the thread cited, what I had always thought WAS strained lumbars was actually strained QL with the lumbars being absolutely fine.
The functions of the QL are lateral flexion (e.g., a side bend type movement) and generally to stabilize the midsection.
Good mornings might well not be an effective direct exercise.
The sad fact is that I neglected doing anything about this in my own case in the interim since the last post, except for getting onto it a few days ago being reminded by brian.m, and so have little to report for progress.
My thought is that side bends should be an effective direct exercise, as this is a direct action of the QL; and additionally I had the thought of trying unbalanced deadlifts. That is to say, DL’s with the ends of the bar unequally loaded.
So far so good, seems promising.
The unbalanced DL’s are interesting, actually. The effect on the QL I would think is largely from the imbalance, so since I was doing them on non-deadlifting days I kept the total weight very light and relied on the imbalance for the training effect. Specifically, last time I just loaded it to 135 and then an extra 25 lb plate on one side. I used a medium wide conventional stance and kept the hands right at the edge of the shins. It’s very important to keep everything symmetrical: allowing the bar to be off-centered would reduce the side bending force.
Seems to help to have mental focus on lifting the heavy-side hand straight up and down with the other hand’s main function being keeping the bar straight and symmetrical.
Next time I’ll use a 35 lb imbalance.
Actually I got the idea because I once stupidly loaded what was supposed to be 405 as three plates one side, four the other, and that was quite a challenging lift.
For the DB side bends, it seems to make sense to me to keep the reps just as low as one deadlifts. The toning crap would seem unlikely to do any good. I’m sure relative weights will vary with the individual, but for me a little over 1/4 the DL weight gives about same reps. That may represent being relatively a little weak in the QL though, I dunno.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I didn’t see this till now, sorry.
Not that I have anything of any unique value to add though.
The QL certainly can feel like the lower back. As mentioned in the thread cited, what I had always thought WAS strained lumbars was actually strained QL with the lumbars being absolutely fine.
The functions of the QL are lateral flexion (e.g., a side bend type movement) and generally to stabilize the midsection.
Good mornings might well not be an effective direct exercise.
The sad fact is that I neglected doing anything about this in my own case in the interim since the last post, except for getting onto it a few days ago being reminded by brian.m, and so have little to report for progress.
My thought is that side bends should be an effective direct exercise, as this is a direct action of the QL; and additionally I had the thought of trying unbalanced deadlifts. That is to say, DL’s with the ends of the bar unequally loaded.
So far so good, seems promising.
The unbalanced DL’s are interesting, actually. The effect on the QL I would think is largely from the imbalance, so since I was doing them on non-deadlifting days I kept the total weight very light and relied on the imbalance for the training effect. Specifically, last time I just loaded it to 135 and then an extra 25 lb plate on one side. I used a medium wide conventional stance and kept the hands right at the edge of the shins. It’s very important to keep everything symmetrical: allowing the bar to be off-centered would reduce the side bending force.
Seems to help to have mental focus on lifting the heavy-side hand straight up and down with the other hand’s main function being keeping the bar straight and symmetrical.
Next time I’ll use a 35 lb imbalance.
Actually I got the idea because I once stupidly loaded what was supposed to be 405 as three plates one side, four the other, and that was quite a challenging lift.
For the DB side bends, it seems to make sense to me to keep the reps just as low as one deadlifts. The toning crap would seem unlikely to do any good. I’m sure relative weights will vary with the individual, but for me a little over 1/4 the DL weight gives about same reps. That may represent being relatively a little weak in the QL though, I dunno.[/quote]
thanx for that, honestly, i have no idea wheather it is my QL or the bottom of my Spinal erector, ive seen chiropracters about this as well and they never really told me what specific muscle they thought was injured. blaaah
the only thing that still hurts(i actually just tested it while writing this and its almost 100 percent gone) is when seated with a nuetral spine, to raise either leg(like a leg extension), this would produce a strong pain/tension in my right spinal erector/ql area.
the unbalanced deadlifts is quite an interesting idea
I have had the exact same problem as you. I am positive mine is the QL. IF it hurts when you raise your hips one side at a time then it is it for sure. I have has pain in my QL so bad at times I could barely walk. I have had spinal fusion in my T 8, 9 ,10, 11, and 12 and think that this might be the case why my QL is constantly irritated. Its been over a year and a half since surgery.
Im trying to make my back as strong as possible but im scared to do deadlifts and I never squat more than a plate. I just rack up the leg press. For lower back i only do extensions and there’s no way thats good enough. Anyone have any advice how to get my erectors strong safely? iare deads safe for someone with spinal fusion?
i have no idea about the spinal fusion, but i know me with my fucked up erector/ql can definately do deads safely, AS LONG AS I DONT OVER DO IT, WHICH IN THE PAST I HAVE ALWAYS DONE
air on the side of cation with deads, but you should try them with very light weight, you never know it could really help you out
but yeah im all for finding a solution to stregnthen my back without hurting it
After a couple months of trying some of my current ideas, ill report back here
are SLDL’s more of a workout for erectors. how do they compare with regular deads?
I would not try high rep DL’s even at light weight. Especially if form has been an issue in the past. The tendency to not reset properly between reps is dangerous at best on an already injured body. Instead do low rep, moderate weight, at high sets, to bring up the time under tension. or try dragging and pushing a sled or your car.
second ditch the full on box squat. I saw it in your videos. not worth it. check this out for just one reason to let it go
Okay I am going to say this out of experience and I know some peoples eyes may roll but lower back weakeness/problems come from a weak chain in your CORE MUSCLE GROUP.
Bill Roberts touched on it with sidebends QL but core in general. An imbalance of lower abs and lower back will result in injury, don’t neglect your CORE!
I neglected training my abs directly for years and it led to messing my lower back up often, my fix ab work 2x a week focusing on hanging leg raises to prevent injury. IT WORKS!
[quote]Tarnished wrote:
I would not try high rep DL’s even at light weight. Especially if form has been an issue in the past. The tendency to not reset properly between reps is dangerous at best on an already injured body.
Instead do low rep, moderate weight, at high sets, to bring up the time under tension. or try dragging and pushing a sled or your car.
second ditch the full on box squat. I saw it in your videos. not worth it. check this out for just one reason to let it go
[/quote]
indeed, i havent done box squats in awhile, but i was messing around with them about a year a go and took that video to try and figure out what my problem was with my form
also, the dude above does make a good point about the core strength thing, im not a big fan of Ab training but i guess ill have to suck it up, any specific exercises i should focus on?
Ihave included light full ROM deadlifts to my leg/lowerback program and it has made a dramatic difference. I don’t feel the QL’s bothering me at all anymore
[quote]hokejka wrote:
Ihave included light full ROM deadlifts to my leg/lowerback program and it has made a dramatic difference. I don’t feel the QL’s bothering me at all anymore[/quote]
Hey buddy, read over the thread and hope things have gone well for you.
Just as a little “test” per se, it would be interesting for you to do a side-bridge endurance test for each side of your mid-section. See what the total time is you can hold the side plank position for. The normal range is between 40-80 seconds. Ideally someone posting here should be well above that range, and hopefully have no asymmetries between the sides.
Could be an interesting way for you to identify some underlying physical issues that you can deal with.
Happy lifting