Bulking/Training Guidance Required

Hey there. I’ll get right to it all and upload some photo’s in a few days

Age: 19 and 10 months
Weight: 216 pounds (98kgs)
Body fat: 16% according to calipers
Training: Playing around with basic weights at 17, proper workouts at 18 but too busy dieting (was grossly overweight in another lifetime) and serious since 19 (workouts and nutritional knowledge)

Lifts (1RM)
Bench press: 187.4 (horribly weak i know, but my chest never seems to develop :(( i try real hard)
Squat: 265
deadlift: 375

  When i post my pictures you will see. My legs are reasonably big, but alot of it is fat i believe.

My chest is pathetic
My back is far bigger than my chest

Additional notes:
→ I put on weight quite easily i believe, so no carbs at night and whatnot, untill recently i’ve been overly pedantic about low calorie intake
→ I’m not convinced by my bodyfat, i think it changed for each section of my body. My stomach has 4 visible abs, top row reasonably defined, next row poorly defined, but you can tell they are there (cant see bottom line, only top and sides of them both) however my rear is so meaty and flabby its quite lame.

Maintenance calories: I’ve tried a bunch of different calculators. Generally, i read that if i dont do any exercise maintenance should be about 2600 calories. If i do a workout, i should try and get about 3000-3200 calories or so. I’m quite the newbie knowing exactly what my maintenance is, since i keep being contradicted. Furthermore, it seems like so much food given I dieted so hard and long from 15-17 and a half years of age and been overly cautious of weight ever since

Workout program: Started ABBH2 today after completing both cycles of ABBH1

Daily diet
Wake up: 1 cup of oats, 25g of fast’ish release protein powder to flavor oats (25g protein) and 6 egg whites with cinnamon
Next meal: Metabolic Drive complete (300 calories, inc 40g protein and other carbs/fats)
Lunch: two pieces wholemeal bread and 250-300g of turkey breast
post workout: Drink with 78g of dextrose/maltodextrose for insulin spike and 38g of protein from regular fast-release protein shake
Dinner: 250-300g of steak or salmon with either stir-fry veggies or coldslaw mix with minimal amounts of mayo untill. Normally about 250-300g of these vegetables/coldslaw to fill me up
Before bed: 125g of cottage cheese, 3 egg whites and 1 full egg
Snacks: normally 2 apples and 2 mandarins a day and 50g of mixed unsalted nuts

→ Also take about 5g of fish oil and a multi each day

Often ranging between 2300-3000 calories
normally about 180-200g protein
Unsure of carbs, hopefully enough

Understand that i’m trying to bulk while trying to look at least as tones, if not more toned (I’m being a bit frustrating probably, but i’m in college now and i just don’t want to be a fatty eh?)

Advice i need (finally):

  1. I’ve read that before you bulk you should get to 9-10% bodyfat or else you’ll be overly sensitive to insulin and put on too much fat per pound of muscle (or something like that), so → do i continue to try and bulk or should i be cutting?

→ Am i eating too much? too little? the right ratio of things?
→ I try and do about 30 minutes cardio, just walking fast at max incline to burn some fat. I also increase calorie intake accordingly. I’m just trying to stay healthy by doing this, i need a break from the study load i have (second year medicine) and exercise keeps me happy

→ Any other advice / comments you can throw at me which will improve my routine overall is exactly what i would like. I like to think i have the discipline to do just about anything, i just need to know what will work well

Goals:
I want to get pretty big muscle-wise, but at the same time not freakishly big. Nice toned masculine V shaped body (sorry for sounding so pretentious)

Hello and welcome.

First of all, you’re much bigger than most new kids who come on here, so that’s always good. How tall are you?

If you’re looking to get bigger, you need to eat more. Try 4500 kcal to start, and if you aren’t putting on 1-2lb/week, increase that number by 250 kcal. Don’t worry about ratios, just worry about good, clean food (that includes not worrying about supplements), and eat more meat. You’re not eating enough whole protein as it is now.

What you really should focus on is STRENGTH. You have the size from your numbers, but you need to pack on some dense muscle right now, because your lifts are comparatively weak. I weigh a good 20 lb less than you and I outdo you in every lift by a good 50 lbs (except the deadlift, but I’m also 20 lbs lighter), and I would not consider myself to be strong by any meals really. And as a bonus, no one ever became small from lifting big. Try Bill Starr’s 5x5 or a westside workout.

Good luck!

[quote]Intermezzo wrote:
Hey there. I’ll get right to it all and upload some photo’s in a few days

Age: 19 and 10 months
Weight: 216 pounds (98kgs)
Body fat: 16% according to calipers
Training: Playing around with basic weights at 17, proper workouts at 18 but too busy dieting (was grossly overweight in another lifetime) and serious since 19 (workouts and nutritional knowledge)

Lifts (1RM)
Bench press: 187.4 (horribly weak i know, but my chest never seems to develop :(( i try real hard)
Squat: 265
deadlift: 375

  When i post my pictures you will see. My legs are reasonably big, but alot of it is fat i believe.

My chest is pathetic
My back is far bigger than my chest

Additional notes:
→ I put on weight quite easily i believe, so no carbs at night and whatnot, untill recently i’ve been overly pedantic about low calorie intake
→ I’m not convinced by my bodyfat, i think it changed for each section of my body. My stomach has 4 visible abs, top row reasonably defined, next row poorly defined, but you can tell they are there (cant see bottom line, only top and sides of them both) however my rear is so meaty and flabby its quite lame.

Maintenance calories: I’ve tried a bunch of different calculators. Generally, i read that if i dont do any exercise maintenance should be about 2600 calories. If i do a workout, i should try and get about 3000-3200 calories or so. I’m quite the newbie knowing exactly what my maintenance is, since i keep being contradicted. Furthermore, it seems like so much food given I dieted so hard and long from 15-17 and a half years of age and been overly cautious of weight ever since

Workout program: Started ABBH2 today after completing both cycles of ABBH1

Daily diet
Wake up: 1 cup of oats, 25g of fast’ish release protein powder to flavor oats (25g protein) and 6 egg whites with cinnamon
Next meal: Metabolic Drive complete (300 calories, inc 40g protein and other carbs/fats)
Lunch: two pieces wholemeal bread and 250-300g of turkey breast
post workout: Drink with 78g of dextrose/maltodextrose for insulin spike and 38g of protein from regular fast-release protein shake
Dinner: 250-300g of steak or salmon with either stir-fry veggies or coldslaw mix with minimal amounts of mayo untill. Normally about 250-300g of these vegetables/coldslaw to fill me up
Before bed: 125g of cottage cheese, 3 egg whites and 1 full egg
Snacks: normally 2 apples and 2 mandarins a day and 50g of mixed unsalted nuts

→ Also take about 5g of fish oil and a multi each day

Often ranging between 2300-3000 calories
normally about 180-200g protein
Unsure of carbs, hopefully enough

Understand that i’m trying to bulk while trying to look at least as tones, if not more toned (I’m being a bit frustrating probably, but i’m in college now and i just don’t want to be a fatty eh?)

Advice i need (finally):

  1. I’ve read that before you bulk you should get to 9-10% bodyfat or else you’ll be overly sensitive to insulin and put on too much fat per pound of muscle (or something like that), so → do i continue to try and bulk or should i be cutting?

→ Am i eating too much? too little? the right ratio of things?
→ I try and do about 30 minutes cardio, just walking fast at max incline to burn some fat. I also increase calorie intake accordingly. I’m just trying to stay healthy by doing this, i need a break from the study load i have (second year medicine) and exercise keeps me happy

→ Any other advice / comments you can throw at me which will improve my routine overall is exactly what i would like. I like to think i have the discipline to do just about anything, i just need to know what will work well

Goals:
I want to get pretty big muscle-wise, but at the same time not freakishly big. Nice toned masculine V shaped body (sorry for sounding so pretentious)

[/quote]

Try replacing the mayo with healthy fats, its just me personally but id rather have extra eggs, or beef which both have protein and fat, as opposed to things like coleslaw, but thats just me.

Your lifts are actually pretty good for your amount of time lifting, and if you continue to increase your lifts while upping your calories you will be bigger “muscle wise” as you say.

I dont know if you need 4500 kcal right away like the above poster mentioned…if youre not gaining at your current cals …add 500 or so until the weight increases. If it stops add more …maybe 250, maybe 500. Everyone is unique, some have slower metabolisms than others… you mentioned being fat before, so take it easy… By all means add calories and gain- just be smart about it.

Make your Metabolic Drive Complete a snack instead of a meal, (with the nuts/fruit) and add another WHOLE protein meal… real food.

good luck

[quote]Intermezzo wrote:
→ I put on weight quite easily i believe, so no carbs at night and whatnot, untill recently i’ve been overly pedantic about low calorie intake
→ I’m not convinced by my bodyfat, i think it changed for each section of my body. My stomach has 4 visible abs, top row reasonably defined, next row poorly defined, but you can tell they are there (cant see bottom line, only top and sides of them both) however my rear is so meaty and flabby its quite lame.

Maintenance calories: I’ve tried a bunch of different calculators. Generally, i read that if i dont do any exercise maintenance should be about 2600 calories. If i do a workout, i should try and get about 3000-3200 calories or so. I’m quite the newbie knowing exactly what my maintenance is, since i keep being contradicted. Furthermore, it seems like so much food given I dieted so hard and long from 15-17 and a half years of age and been overly cautious of weight ever since

Understand that i’m trying to bulk while trying to look at least as tones, if not more toned (I’m being a bit frustrating probably, but i’m in college now and i just don’t want to be a fatty eh?)

Advice i need (finally):

  1. I’ve read that before you bulk you should get to 9-10% bodyfat or else you’ll be overly sensitive to insulin and put on too much fat per pound of muscle (or something like that), so → do i continue to try and bulk or should i be cutting?

→ Am i eating too much? too little? the right ratio of things?

[/quote]

From what you’ve said I think losing weight should be your last priority. You are lean enough to bulk. Don’t worry about bodyfat percentages, insulin sensitivity, etc. That’s the best way to sabotage your gains. Forget the 10% nonsense.

Keep things simple. Pick a routine (I would prefer some type of slpit rather than whole body, but that’s a whole other can of worms), follow it consistently, and eat enough to gain around one pound per week. At that rate of gain you will put on a little fat, which is necesary for optimal muscle growth. I do like that you are cutting off carbs later in the day, but don’t fret over it. The important thing is eating enough calories to grow.

The best piece of advice I’ve read on this site is to realize how little time you have to get big (or to whatever size you’re after). It’s good that you’re starting young; your muscle building prime is still ahead of you. But don’t end up being one of those guys who refuses to gain a little fat and finds himself the same size ten years later.

everyone has their own opinion or philosophy, but I dont think you can go wrong with cleaning up your diet while keeping the calories high.

Some will debate getting to 10% others, dont care about bf%

The key is to pursue your goals, not what everyone else wants because their personal goals are different.

[quote]mwyatt wrote:

From what you’ve said I think losing weight should be your last priority. You are lean enough to bulk. Don’t worry about bodyfat percentages, insulin sensitivity, etc. That’s the best way to sabotage your gains. Forget the 10% nonsense.

[/quote]

Take this advice PLEASE!

Should be a stickie in the Beginners Forum.

Thank you all so much for your responses, they’ve been great.

Its taken me so long to respond to this post since i only just found it (I was being a retard and checking the wrong place)

I’ve added an extra protein meal with some carbs needed to boost up my calories, as well as a few eggs and a touch of milk

Breakfast: one cup oats, 25g protein powder, 1 cup of medium-fat milk (5g fat per 250ml), 6 egg whites, two whole eggs

3 hours later → two pieces wholemeal bread with large can of tuna in oil (185g of tuna)

3 hours later → 1 cup (after cooking, about 80g i think) of brown rice with about 200g turkey breast

3 hours later → Complete Metabolic Drive (300cal, 40g protein)

3 hours later → Dinner, either salmon steak Or Steak (Thanks for the tip, more whole protein) with salad consisting of olive oil and balsamic vinegar (Thanks for the tip, no more retarded mayo)

3 hours later before bed → 250g cottage cheese with 1 scoop Metabolic Drive low carb and small amount of nuts

Around training (before, during and after) → Few apples as well as gatorade mixed with maltodextrose around 100g collectively as well as 45g whey

Snacks → Mixed unsalted nuts or natural peanut butter

Calories → 4000 or so (i gained 1.5kg’s after a week of following this)

Thanks again for all the tips. Will upload photo’s when i get home now that i’ve found this post.
If 1.5kg is too little or too much, let me know
If you see anything else which can be improved, lay your wisdom upon me

<3

i would think 1.5kgs is too much per week, even if your eating clean its said you can only gain .25- .5 pounds of muscle per week, anything more than 2 pounds mostly turns into fat

[quote]acelement wrote:
Hello and welcome.

What you really should focus on is STRENGTH. You have the size from your numbers, but you need to pack on some dense muscle right now, because your lifts are comparatively weak. I weigh a good 20 lb less than you and I outdo you in every lift by a good 50 lbs (except the deadlift, but I’m also 20 lbs lighter), and I would not consider myself to be strong by any meals really. And as a bonus, no one ever became small from lifting big. Try Bill Starr’s 5x5 or a westside workout.

[/quote]

I agree with that, adding strength. While I haven’t done either of those workouts I’d like to at least suggest Rippetoe Starting Strength program. It helped me pack on quality size and appreciable strength, and is especially good for new comers. The progressive heavy weight and full body workouts generally will condition your CNS to handle bigger loads/ recruit motor units, leading to greater gains down the road as you get more experienced. It’s a great foundation, and hard to f*ck up.