actually when i hurt my back it was a twisting movement, too. i mean, i tried to self release something that was trying to recover… but it was twisting movements that would bring on the stabby pains. and pulls from the hang 
took a month to recover because i simply could not leave pulls from the hang alone it would be totally fine… and then stabby pain again
Disc bulges are at its highest potential to occur during a combination of lumbar flexion and rotation (especially when under load). Of course they are still likely to occur during any lumbar flexion under load, but add in the rotation and its a recipe for disaster.
Most rotational based “core movements” are butchered technique wise as well. The rotation should be coming from the hips and thoracic spine, but most people lack the ability to stabilize the lumbar spine so that it won’t be the prime mover during the exercises.
This is why I don’t really recommend people trying to “crack their own back”. Especially if they have a long going mal-alignment or imbalance occurring, the body will want to return to that faulty alignment that is it “used to be in”. Best to leave any kind of mobilizations or adjustments to professionals and to stick with mobility drills that may unintentionally get a small (but not forceful) adjustment.
I see. When I cracked my back I was standing upright, so my lumber spine just rotated at to the left, there was no flexion involved. From what I’m reading, I probably over-stretched a small ligament/muscle, or messed with the SI Joint, or both. I can kind of feel the muscle/ligaments ‘radiate’ around the SI joint in the low back/upper glutes.
Also, on twisting the lower back, should you never do it? I’ve seen a lot of lifters do the ‘Iron Cross’ while lying down as a warm-up.
I read somewhere (Boyle or one of the rehab-y people on this site) that joints alternate between having a stability or mobility role. So:
Ankles - mobility
Knees - stability
Hips - mobility
Lumbar Spine - stability
Thoracic Spine - mobility
Cervical Spine - stability
That injury to stabilizers (knees, lumbar spine, cervical spine) can occur when they become mobile - either because we try and mobilize them (oops) or because they are trying to compensate for relative immobility of an upper or lower joint (ankles, hips, thoracic spine).
I’ve read mixed things on rolling / releasing the lumbar spine.
In my own case the best thing seems for me to basically leave it the hell alone. Work really very hard on mobilizing hips, ankles, and thoracic, but really, leave the lumbar spine the hell alone.
Nice post. Yeah, I’ve decided to not even touch the low back. Read this just now, after reading your post:
"Yes, it would help the soft tissue quality, but the contribution to hypermobility combined with the fact that there isn’t a lot of muscle mass down there in most people makes it unsafe, in my opinion.
If you look at the most advanced lifters, they have a lot of hypertrophy in the mid-thoracic erectors - where any sort of flexion can occur more safely under load (a protective adaptation that goes along with being experienced).
If you look at the best lifters, they still tend to be pretty thin in the lumbar erectors; they aren’t buttressing shear stress as much there, as they know not to flex there in the first place."
Also, I mentioned that I initially felt that ‘twinge’ in my back from twisting my back while standing to crack it. Apparently, doing this over a long period of time can cause a disc problem… I’ve been twisting/cracking my low back for years.
Here’s some words from McGill.
- Twisting
Rotating your upper body without simultaneously rotating your pelvis will, over time, slowly squeeze the gel from your disks and damage their outer layers. If you’re seated as you read this and you need clarification, take note: “When you’re at your desk and you keep twisting to reach your phone, every twist while flexing creates a combined load, which doubles the destructive effect,” McGill says.
Of course, rotational exercises – cable woodchoppers, twisting medicine-ball throws, and oblique crunches, for example – have become commonplace in the past few years. Are they spine wreckers? It is possible to rotate without increasing your risk of spinal load, says McGill, if you move your upper and lower body as a single unit. To preserve the neutral spine position while doing rotational exercises, imagine that you’ve nailed boards from the bottom of your rib cage to the top of your hips so your pelvis and rib cage move as a block. Ignore this advice at your own risk. “Twisting torque,” McGill cautions, “creates four to five times the load on the disks compared with other kinds of movements.”
Hi.
This is a thread hijack.
I feel for you “peanut butter andy”, as I am also a recent victim of back pain.
Mine is lower back pain, which i have expereinced before but not to the latest extent.
After my soccer game the other day, my lower back has seized up. It has got improved in the
past 2 days, but I awaite for my chiro appointment. I fear the possibility of bulging discs etc.
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First, this thread is awesome wi wish I had found this site a long time ago. Second I agree with the things posted on here, give it time and if is radiates pain, SEE a doctor, better yet two. Finally know that if you do get an MRI you will mostlikely have several abnormal conditions and not known about them. I have 3 bulging discs two of which I didn’t know about. So treat the injure and continue to stregthen your back to gaurd against further injuries.
I’m glad this thread is helping others, that’s what I’m hoping for.
I have had some crazy back injuries that sound similar to yours. Intolerable pain at the site but no pain in the legs. Question: did you happen to look at yourself in the mirror? Did you look crooked? Did you feel crooked? I have been that way each time I’ve hurt myself. I looked “gimped”.
I never saw anybody for the issue but did my own rehab. The best thing I found for this issue was to use my dip belt with a heavy dumbbell, hang from a bar (or whatever), and DROP while still hanging on to the bar so the dumbbell sorta pulls you apart. It takes several drops and a few different sessions of this to get fully back to normal, but even after the first session I noticed at least 50% improvement in pain and mobility. And you’ll FEEL yourself reset. You’ll know when a drop has worked.
So whether or not it was a tight muscle that pulled me out of alignment (hence the crooked look and feel) or what, this trick has worked on more than one occasion.
*Edited
[quote]cueball wrote:
I have had some crazy back injuries that sound similar to yours. Intolerable pain at the site but no pain in the legs. Question: did you happen to look at yourself in the mirror? Did you look crooked? Did you feel crooked? I have been that way each time I’ve hurt myself. I looked “gimped”.
I never saw anybody for the issue but did my own rehab. The best thing I found for this issue was to use my dip belt with a heavy dumbbell, hang from a bar (or whatever), and DROP while still hanging on to the bar so the dumbbell sorta pulls you apart. It takes several drops and a few different sessions of this to get fully back to normal, but even after the first session I noticed at least 50% improvement in pain and mobility. And you’ll FEEL yourself reset. You’ll know when a drop has worked.
So whether or not it was a tight muscle that pulled me out of alignment (hence the crooked look and feel) or what, this trick has worked on more than one occasion.
*Edited[/quote]
That’s something straight out of the medieval times…go see a chiropractor and get an adjustment.
[quote]otrain wrote:
[quote]cueball wrote:
I have had some crazy back injuries that sound similar to yours. Intolerable pain at the site but no pain in the legs. Question: did you happen to look at yourself in the mirror? Did you look crooked? Did you feel crooked? I have been that way each time I’ve hurt myself. I looked “gimped”.
I never saw anybody for the issue but did my own rehab. The best thing I found for this issue was to use my dip belt with a heavy dumbbell, hang from a bar (or whatever), and DROP while still hanging on to the bar so the dumbbell sorta pulls you apart. It takes several drops and a few different sessions of this to get fully back to normal, but even after the first session I noticed at least 50% improvement in pain and mobility. And you’ll FEEL yourself reset. You’ll know when a drop has worked.
So whether or not it was a tight muscle that pulled me out of alignment (hence the crooked look and feel) or what, this trick has worked on more than one occasion.
*Edited[/quote]
That’s something straight out of the medieval times…go see a chiropractor and get an adjustment. [/quote]
Sure, it’s low tech, but I achieved the same result.
cueball, it might give you relief, but relief doesn’t always mean it’s good for you. An example is the reverse hyper, which puts your back into flexion under load. A lot of people do this exercise incorrectly, by letting their legs go way down under the apparatus, and using the momentum of the weight to pull the lower back apart. At the same time, when they go up, they don’t squeeze the glutes, and instead, just extend at the lower back. But I digress… read more at Re-Building the Reverse Hyper - Robertson Training Systems
I just came back from my chiro, and he did flexion-distraction, which is pretty similar to what you described cueball. Except the chiro is very gentle when he performs this, and slowly pushes down on the table/lower back. He did this to sort of loosen up the lower back muscles before performing some ART on the lumbar and lower-thoracic erectors. After ART, he stretched the hammies and piriformis using PNF. He also taught me a neat exercise to focus on squeezing the multifidi (stabilizers to the spine), by tilting my sacrum slightly up. Then he taught me how to focus on my transverse abdominus when doing stuff like planks, bird dogs, etc. And lastly, did some electro-stim + ice.
I did side bridges today, and they felt awesome for my back injury. My left inner abdominal muscles (I’m guessing tranverse abdominus) were considerably weaker, so this probably contributed to my back injury, as some other spinal muscle took over for the TvA. Keeping these in the toolbox. Also, read below, from a Paul Chek article…
“The TVA, in concert with other inner unit muscles,(Figure 2) activates to increase stiffness of spinal joints and the sacroiliac joints.(6,7,15) Activation of the inner unit provides the necessary stiffness to give the arms and legs a working foundation from which to operate. Failure of the TVA to activate 30-110 ms prior to arm or leg movements respectively has been correlated with back pain and dysfunction.(6, 16) The inner unit is part of a system of stabilizer mechanisms, all of which are dependent on the integrated function of all inner unit muscles.”
It’s funny that he mentions the SI joint, because I have pain there as well. I fail the FABER test on both legs miserably.
Just an update.
I saw the chiro today and he said I just had a irritated nerve. He adjusted me and told me to
come back in 3-4 days to get re-adjusted again.
I asked him about hip flexor flexibilty etc, and he didnt seam too interested.
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[quote]PB Andy wrote:
cueball, it might give you relief, but relief doesn’t always mean it’s good for you. An example is the reverse hyper, which puts your back into flexion under load. A lot of people do this exercise incorrectly, by letting their legs go way down under the apparatus, and using the momentum of the weight to pull the lower back apart. At the same time, when they go up, they don’t squeeze the glutes, and instead, just extend at the lower back. But I digress… read more at Re-Building the Reverse Hyper - Robertson Training Systems
I just came back from my chiro, and he did flexion-distraction, which is pretty similar to what you described cueball. Except the chiro is very gentle when he performs this, and slowly pushes down on the table/lower back. He did this to sort of loosen up the lower back muscles before performing some ART on the lumbar and lower-thoracic erectors. After ART, he stretched the hammies and piriformis using PNF. He also taught me a neat exercise to focus on squeezing the multifidi (stabilizers to the spine), by tilting my sacrum slightly up. Then he taught me how to focus on my transverse abdominus when doing stuff like planks, bird dogs, etc. And lastly, did some electro-stim + ice.[/quote]
I completely agree that what I did wasn’t optimal. I just don’t like ANYBODY messing with me in that manner unless I have no other option. That may be a silly mindset, but it’s just how I feel.
Glad he was able to take care of you and give you some exercises to rehab/prevent. Since my last injury I’ve been doing front squats and those seem to have really solidified my back and has woken up my abdominals.
Good luck man, back injuries blow.
[quote]theBird wrote:
Just an update.
I saw the chiro today and he said I just had a irritated nerve. He adjusted me and told me to
come back in 3-4 days to get re-adjusted again.
I asked him about hip flexor flexibilty etc, and he didnt seam too interested.
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Does your chiro do some type of muscle work? Graston, ART…? If not, it’s not really worth your time or money to go to a chiro who doesn’t do those things. My opinion is to find a new chiro who can not only adjust your back, but do some soft tissue work before that.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]theBird wrote:
Just an update.
I saw the chiro today and he said I just had a irritated nerve. He adjusted me and told me to
come back in 3-4 days to get re-adjusted again.
I asked him about hip flexor flexibilty etc, and he didnt seam too interested.
tweet tweet[/quote]
Does your chiro do some type of muscle work? Graston, ART…? If not, it’s not really worth your time or money to go to a chiro who doesn’t do those things. My opinion is to find a new chiro who can not only adjust your back, but do some soft tissue work before that.[/quote]
He does not do any soft tissue work. He just wants to crack my back.
When I asked him what I should be stretching to avoid this(ie should i stretch one hip flexor more than the other due to a higher pelvis etc), he wasnt interested and said I should stretch everything.
Does anyone know any chiropractors/physiotherapist in Perth, Western Australia, that has a special interest in lifting/sports, and is willing to spend time with the patient??
On a side note, the back does feel a but better today. If it is the adjustment or just time factor, Im not too sure.
Has anyone ever tried one of those things were you hang upside down to decpompress the spine. My physio friend say that are of no real benefit.
Im also looking into alternating heat and cold packs.
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Bird, your in perth? North or south?
Hey guys, about a year ago i was doing overhead db press and heard a crunching sound, tingling sensation and then couldnt move my neck. Went to the doc and he said rest and it disappeared.
Over the last year it has occured a couple of more times, less severe.
Sunday i was doing oh press and racked it (rack to the front) and felt pressure on my neck, was fine, 4 hrs later couldnt move my neck.
Just got back from the physio then and he said i might have bulged (sp?) a disc, he gave me a massage and told me to rest. Is there anything i can do to help it, i felt some localised pain in my neck, above my left scapula, between my left scap and spine and some in the left arm. Ideas/advice?
I dont trust chiros, should i?
[quote]RobRaynerBB wrote:
Bird, your in perth? North or south?
I dont trust chiros, should i?[/quote]
Hi Kiddo.
I live south, but I am prepared to travel north if needed.
Where are you?
My chiro seemed to make sense in what he was saying, but I just wish
he would spend more time with me in terms of preventitive measures and diagnoses, instead
of just cracking my back and saying come back next week and every 2nd week after that.
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